According to Unwired, one can use drones as team members to supply sensory input limited by their sensor rating. Basically, you could have a properly equipped drone as part of a rating 3 tacnet instead of having to worry about some other team member being nearby. Trouble is, anything less than a combat drone will get picked off or hacked, not to mention the pain of enemies jamming you.

So, what to do? Why you chop off their legs and strap the little guys on to your body of course! A bust-a-move with limited maneuverability, 6 sensor channels (and some redundant channels in case of smoke, etc), a 6 sensor rating, ECCM 3, gecko-grip, and a skinlink makes for a little companion who can hitch a ride on your torso/shoulder/head while providing a valuable member of a rating 3 tacnet that is unhackable and (almost) unjammable.

That means a (GM-determined, as always) +3 to perception tests, firearms tests, close combat tests, dodge tests, infiltration tests, and surprise tests. It's biggest issue is when explosive grenades and rockets get involved. Getting caught in explosions is bad for your tacnet (not to mention yourself) as mini drones are about as tough as soggy toilet paper. Enemies can also shoot at the bust-a-moves themselves, but usually they'll be busy with the aggressive, moving target, not the weird puppets attached to it.

Costs can be low for the returns, below is pretty much the minimum necessary to get this going.

personally, i prefer finding a way to mount rails on your armor, and then installing ares sentinel drones onto the rails

(works best if your armor is actually some sort of vehicle with a multi-drone launcher)

personally, i prefer finding a way to mount rails on your armor, and then installing ares sentinel drones onto the rails

(works best if your armor is actually some sort of vehicle with a multi-drone launcher)

Ah and that "GM-Determined as always" completely destroys that concept, i would guess. Since it is especially stated you can get the dice only if you can "Somehow benfit from the tacnet" which is defined as : some new senses you do not have or another view on something. Since the drones all have (more or less) the same position as you it would maybe only count if they have radar and you not. And then you have other problems, like the -6 for blind.

Na best thing is still to have freeflying highly intelligent drones which spread out and scout the whole battlefield for you independently. And yes, they might get shot down... but who is aiming at those small bastards anyway if someone seems to be running a gun-kata against you and your dudes?

Well yeah, but that would take a lot of cash and only a troll could probably pull that off. The Minidrone Modular Tactical Awareness System (BMTAS) doesn't take much initial investment.

Actually, having eyes on your back/head, alternate views to improve paralax, and just overall better situational awareness stemming from having sensors all over yourself seems pretty reasonable to me. Not sure where the blind part comes from...

As for the flying minidrones... well, they're a bit harder to upgrade and are more expensive. They also can be jammed and hacked.

If a GM allows this, why wouldn't they allow a standard sensor package? They come in a variety of sizes, all listed in the corebook if I recall.

~Umidori

If drones can be part of a tacnet, then there doesn't seem to be any hard reason why drones can't be all of a tacnet. I couldn't see anything expressly preventing this in the rules. Next time a group faces a pack of Doberman drones, they might get a nasty surprise.

The benefits from a tacnet are described as resulting from a program analysing information from different points of view to grant the full (available and relevant) situational awareness to each user and to provide recommendations based on the analysis.

If you have a bunch of drones/sensor packages strapped to your body then you get to share the situational awareness but there's no dice pool bonus because you're still only using one perspective (albeit a wider-reaching one). In almost all situations I would consider you to be the same user for tacnet purposes, and thus still reliant on another user having sensorial access to what's going on around you.

For example, you're fighting a guy in hand to hand combat. You have two drones about your person (meeting the minimum of three users) and between you there's 18 or more sensor feeds covering pretty much every possible way of 'seeing' things from where you're standing. Cuts down on visibility penalties, but doesn't help much in terms of knowing what the other combatant is going to do in the next second.

Alternatively, the two drones are elsewhere in the same room and one of them is about to shoot at the guy you're fighting. The tacnet software calculates probabilistically that either the guy will get hit or he will move in a fairly predictable way to dodge it. Now you have a pretty good idea of what is about to happen and you can use that to your advantage, making your next strike much more likely to do well.

As ever (with 4th ed.) it's down to the GM. If you can convince him that you can gain the kind of advantage described in my second example by using the set-up in the first then you have a more generous GM than my players do.

I think that the key point here is that a number of sensors must be present, not necessarily drones. Obviously having drones is an acceptable way to manage the requirements, but you could just as easily mount several cameras or other sensors to accomplish this as well.

Do drones get the bonus from any sensory enhancements like Thermographic Vision, or just from their Sensor rating?

Yes.

Now for the explanation. the tacnet relies on channels(Specifically enhancemens such as you have mentioned) of input, so adding specific new sensory channels counts. But also Drones contribute Sensor Channels equal to it's sensor rating. Don't take both, take it one way though.

Wait, so it's either or?

[Edit] I want to clarify that I'm asking for independent drones.

A tacnet requires at least three valid participants to confer any bonus.
A participant is 'valid' if he contributes at least six (useful) sensor feeds. This means that natural vision would not count as there's no way to get the data to the software and irrelevant senses (such as taste in a firefight) don't count either.

So a drone can subscribe as a user and if it has at least six sensor channels then it counts towards the three minimum. I'm not sure what DR was getting at, exactly, but sensor channels can be added to a metahuman user or a drone user equally. Stick a microphone on an otherwise deaf metahuman or drone and that user is one step closer to the six channels required.

It's because of this that it doesn't make sense in my mind to allow one-man tacnets. A guy with a couple of tricked-out Bust-a-Moves hanging from his belt is just one guy with more senses than sense, not a coordinated team blessed with total-situational awareness.

"For a tactical network to function effectively, it requires a
minimum of 3 members. Each member must be running tactical
software of an equivalent rating (if the ratings are unequal, the network
functions according to the lowest rating software) and must
be subscribed to the tactical network (taking up one subscription).
Members may be characters running the tacsoft on their commlinks
or drones running the software on their systems."

Drones can be tacnet members.

"Sensor Systems: Data acquired from worn, carried,
or mounted sensor systems of various types (cameras, microphones,
range finders, motion sensors, etc.) may also be
contributed to the network as a sensor channel. Drones sensor
systems also count; each drone can supply a number of sensor
channels equal to its Sensor rating."

Vehicle sensors. They are either generic Sensor ratings, in which case simple use that figure, or you have added enhances sensor systems of which you have added those specific types, in which case you can count that as a sensor input for that drone.

If you customized the sensor system, you can use the customized enahncement as an added sensor channel.

In any case I would still limit the total number of available channels to the sensor rating.

A couple corrections: First, the number of feeds required to be a member/subscriber is 2xrating of the tacnet involved. For example, a rating 2 tacnet would only require 4 feeds (eg. sight, low-light, thermo, audio). Also, natural senses ARE EXPLICITLY INCLUDED in the list of viable sensor channels. The only issue is getting that information to the tacnet. Most likely, you would use trodes or wear a pair of skinlinked glasses with an image link and appropriate enhancements.



At the very least, it'd improve your overall perception and surprise rolls, probably your defense rolls as well. Having "eyes in the back of your head" is one thing, but having them there AND what amounts to a second/third/fourth brain processing threats you can and can't see is another.

Quite right, my mistake.


That was exactly my point. Simply having eyes does not add 'Sight' to your list of contributed sensor channels - only broadcastable senses count, which requires some kind of electronic input device. I don't have the BBB on me right now, but wouldn't trodes still need something like a simrig? Otherwise you're just telling the software (with your mind) what you see and that's not nearly enough for analysis purposes. An image link doesn't really help either, since that's an output device (though you will need that or something similar for the tacnet to pass information back to you) - you'd need a camera in those glasses.


Single cybereye (Augmentation, p.38)
"Any time these additional eyes are used in addition to the character's usual eyes, apply a -2 dice pool modifier to all tests due to the confusion and disorientation the mismatching images cause."

By this (IMO, supremely apt) analogy, using the camera on a drone to see directly behind you at the same time as seeing normally actually makes you less effective. Maybe surprise tests could be an exception (if the situation justified) but otherwise to use it effectively you would have to stop paying attention to what your normal eyes are seeing. Either you are constantly using the additional senses, in which case you get a penalty on all actions, or you are referring to it as and when you think necessary, which doesn't help you in terms of passive situational awareness and it's rarely more helpful to look behind you than in front. Additional senses can be used to further your sensorial reach, but the advantage is only in the increased awareness and not in acting upon the sum of the information available.


Except that's not what a tacnet is/does. The tacnet takes all the sensor channels across the network and, taking positions and vectors into account, runs computations in order to advise and guide individual subscribers in a team effort. So there's only one (virtual) brain processing threats and the like and the dice pool bonuses are there to reflect how much smoother everything runs when there's someone (the software) coordinating the operation.

The point I've been making (or trying to make) is that strapping drones or multiple sensor packages to yourself won't give the tacnet a sufficiently encompassing awareness of the situation to grant any bonus, only a more detailed awareness from your position. Neither does it allow the tacnet to coordinate the team since there's only one mobile user to 'coordinate'.

For example, the software can warn you of an attack from behind and thus enable you to dodge it (whereas you otherwise would have been a sitting duck) and it could well warn you early enough to take pre-emptive action, but it won't add anything to your dice pool.

At the end of the day, even if it's not explicitly prohibited by RAW, you can't possibly argue that the mechanics or fluff for tacnets were intended to allow bonuses for 'coordinating' a one-man 'team'.

Aerospider. It's entirely up to you if as a GM you want to not allow the tac net bonus when someone straps the tacnet member drones to their body. I personally would tend to agree that that is less effective. However, I firmly believe drones can be tacnet members and a single PC with 2 or more drones can benefit from a tacnet bonus. The core rules for tacnets explicitly state drones can act as members, and that their sensor channels count. Using the tacnet in a less effective way doesn't mean the tacnet can't work. Also, your arguments and supporting quotes are from other areas, not what is written in the tacnet section.

Likewise it's entirely up to any GM if they want to ignore RAW and common sense (and I don't mean that perjoratively).

I never said drones can't be used at all, you're quite right that they are just as valid users as methumans. But if they aren't viewing things from a different perspective (by which I mean spatially different, not sensorially different) they aren't contributing to a coordinated team effort. I would similarly disallow tacnet DP bonuses to a troll carrying a dwarf under each arm.

The augmentation quote was irrespective of tacnet usage, really - rather, it was about how access to a sensor looking behind you isn't the same as, say, an eight-eyed spider with a brain evolved to process the information from all eight at once (which didn't seem to be the view against which I was debating, but maybe I read too much into it at the time).

Overall, what I'm saying is that attaching two extra 'sets' of sensors to your person does not qualify you as the minimum of three users and by that rationale neither should similarly affixed drones.

Otherwise, why do RAW make any mention of a minimum number of users at all? Either the one-man tacnet is breaking the rules (and the notion behind them) or it's a trivial matter that never needed raising to begin with (no offence, Faraday, that's just how I sees it).

That sounds like exactly what lone star eyeball drone were created for.

You could scatter a few around and let them roll in to a good position with interlocking coverage.


How about this instead.

Go the recycling route so you can afford to leave them if you have to.

Tape a used microdrone sensor package with a dap of thermite (just enough to melt it) and a cheap comlink with some decent encryption wired to all three. Repeat four or five times.

Have each set to travel a certain distant in particular direction. If impossible then travel randomly until they have good interlocking coverage unless overridden once activated. Basically go find a good place to sit with a good view where no one like you is around.


All are set to do a wipe and self destruct after a certain time.

You can even drop one or two in critical areas on your way in.

If things do go down, activate them and let nature take it's course.


If someone is shooting at them, they are not shooting at you.

If the rigger (or anyone else) needs to they can override one to get a better view of a certain situation.

The random actions of the other would hide the one being controlled if you were careful.



The thermite trashes the comlink and most of the rest.

Even if one is destroyed before they self destruct, the components are all off the shelf.


The weak link is jamming or having someone put out false data but you have overlapping coverage so are likely no worse off than before.


The best part is you could even issue a recall.

If it is some place public then you can pay some kid to go pick them up.

Strip off the comlink and senor package and make a blind drop. They can keep the toy.

...actually, this sounds like a hilariously modified grenade. Because in SR, grenades are awesome. And i'm about to make them better
Behold! The CleverLink smartgrenade system! I went with the cheapest(Frag), but you could easily substitute high explosive or incendiary.

Frag Grenade: 35 nuyen:
Grenades, rockets and missiles, srra 324. Grenades are small, self-contained explosive packages. They may come with a built-in timer to detonate after a pre-set amount of time(usually 5 seconds), a motion-sensor set to detonate on impact, or a wireless link set to detonate upon command. (Thats right, ladies and gentlemen. In shadowrun, grenades are wireless. So -encrypt your grenade launcher-.)

Now we mod the stuffing out of it.
Voice Activation/Response(smartguns only): This is a microphone/loudspeaker combination that allows the user to control the weapon via verbal commands, as well as allowing the weapon to verbally repond with any information it may have. Mercenaries with a sense of humor have been known to give this modification to grenades, then command them to count down to detonation loudly before throwing them, just to watch their opponents reactions. Cost: 50/1slot(Smartgun only). =50 nuyen
Smartgun System: As external version. 1 slot/cost = weapon base. = 35 nuyen
External smartlink(Corebook): You know what this does. more importantly, it includes a laser range finder and a small camera.
Camera Upgrade(Smartguns only). This modification upgrades the guncam with vision enhancement systems. It can be taken more than once, each time adding a new vision enhancement system. 1 slot Cost=enhancement cost. (not strictly needed for a tacnet1, but the option's here). We're adding Flare compensation for 50
Cost: =170

So you take a grenade, smartlink it, and throw on thermals or whatever, and suddenly it has the channels to support a rating 2 tacnet(cam+mic+rangerfinder+therm=4). Now what can you -do- with that smartlink? Unwired provides some answers.
Page 48, Sample Peripheral Node's table tell us that smartguns are response 2, signal 1, system 3, firewall 4. Yes, its system is higher than response, but we don't care about that. What it means is that it can handle rating 3 programs. Like tacnet, encryption, and ECCM.

A consideration: Range. Given that grenade launchers in SR have an upper Extreme range limit of 150-500 meters, we may want to add more wireless range to our spygrenades, unless we're throwing them. Fortunately, changing thats easy as installing a new adapter, and those are cheap. (Or we could set them to blow up if they drop out of signal range. A reasonable precaution) Signal 3 will get us a 400meter range for 150NY/avail8, and signal 2 is 100 meters for 50ny/avail4.

We'll be going with Signal 3, for 150 nuyen, and using a slaved tacnet so we don't have to buy more copies of it. (Pirated software is another option, but I don't want to look that up right now, so i'm not including programs in cost.)

If we -really- wanted to get cheesy, we could indulge in Pilot Upgrading our smartgrenade, and use its newfound sensor capacity to work even more sensors onto it, and its spare modification slots to incorporate other things, laserlinks to talk back, but that ceases to be cheap.

That brings up our total to 320nuyen for a disposable semi-drone spygrenade that feeds our tacnet, and blows itself up as an insurance policy. Not bad.

How much to make it semi mobile?

Nothing like having a grenade roll around a corner and then start to chase the Security guards (slowly) the other direction.

uh. Ares antioch 2 for 600? Limited Maneuverability downgrade?(It is not an upgrade. It gives you more slots, but says the drone can only guide itself, not move under its own power)

I'm not sure you can, for anything remotely resembling a reasonable price. Propulsion system upgrade for pilot upgraded weapons is hideously expensive, slot and nuyen wise. So much, that you're just better off asking your GM if you can fire your iball out of a grenade launcher.