Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Future of Shadowrun
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
TBRMInsanity
Looking at what has happened in the past, and in the recent news, I've looked at similar events with other companies (such as TSR and Commodore). This worries me about the future of Shadowrun and what I as a consumer and creative individual can do to help make sure that Shadowrun doesn't fade into history.

One idea I had would be to take the Open Source root (kinda like what Netscape did with their browser (which lead to the creation of Firefox)). The Shadowrun community is huge and very creative. I think if the Shadowrun license was given to a community project that it would survive and thrive (and have less instances of "accounting irregularities" that we have seen in recent events). What I don't know is how would you create such a community project, how would it be managed, how they would obtain the licenses to Shadowrun, and how would they work with any/all publishers to get products to RPG stores and Shadowrun players in a timely and productive manner? I'm open to ideas.
nezumi
Poll could be improved if those options had the Swordfish Mustardball choice.

However... The game will not die as long as people are playing it. I'm still playing SR3. I know people who are still playing SR1. In other words, even if no new books came out, and even though maybe 80% of the fans would disappear, it would still be around.

The WORST thing that can happen is Shadowrun is handed over a company who remakes it into a hugely popular, hugely terrible product. Then you get a product which is successful enough to bring in new fans and kick around for a while, but the new blood it's bringing in is of poor quality, and the bloodline becomes diluted. Eventually that will push out the old fans, tear down the community, and Shadowrun as we know it will be restricted to recluses such as myself.
Penta
I'm not sure you could convince Topps to ever allow the license to head to an OS group - and I doubt they will ever sell the IP to go open-source, the money involved is just too seductive.

From a practical point of view, RPG book-creation is a job that needs the stability and resources of a corporation behind it, especially for an RPG with the "production values" of SR. It's low-margin, and I'm not sure on how much profit it actually makes. Certainly you'd have immense difficulty convincing all the people you'd need to convince that an OS project could meet its obligations.

This goes about double re anything involving money, like physical publishing. I would be totally unsurprised if a printer were to go, "Your money ain't wanted here", because they'd be nervous about dealing with something so new and strange.

Finally, marketing. Marketing. Marketing. No open-source group can match a professional group at that key task - whether it be doing booths at cons, marketing to distributors or game stores, direct marketing to the consumer...

Let's be realistic. As consumers, there is zilch we can do if some company is not publishing books. The moment SR stops as a currently-published RPG, its days are numbered. No amount of community involvement could stop the inevitable decline from that point. And the bitter truth is that as consumers, we have zero leverage in the corporate shaking going on. We cannot persuade Topps one way or the other on license renewal. I guarantee you that were Topps to decide not to license the IP out (I doubt that, but it's always a possibility), they'd go after fan efforts to produce books with their lawyers. They have to, in order to protect their IP.

No, the best we can do is keep buying the books that are actually on sale, so as to convince all parties involved that SR is still viable, and just hope SR winds up in good hands.

We may be all about fighting the system in our gaming, but we're incredibly dependent upon it to get our gaming.
Dread Moores
Will the community keep it going forever? No. Will it keeping for a while if new books were to stop? Probably. Heck, there's probably Tunnels and Trolls forums out there still providing fan support. Does that mean the game "continued?" Only in the loosest sense of the word. It's not providing new product and no new company picks it up, well...without actual commercial product and lacking the ability of the fanbase to legal generate new product? I don't really see that as anything resembling "it'll never die!" That's just the existing fanbase not really quitting.
Dread Moores
QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 22 2010, 12:06 PM) *
The WORST thing that can happen is Shadowrun is handed over a company who remakes it into a hugely popular, hugely terrible product.


I'd be cautious of equating hugely popular as automatically equaling hugely terrible.
wizwyrm
I believe SR is still marketable and viable to the gaming population, or else we wouldn't be playing it. Most of the people I game with had never heard of it before I introduced them, so there are still new players being exposed to the brand. Some new literature would be nice, but I don't think its necessary to the continuation of the game.

and for dreks sake learn to spell!
tete
Id like to see Jordan get his IP back but Catalyst to keep printing books.
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (Dread Moores @ Mar 22 2010, 12:30 PM) *
Will the community keep it going forever? No. Will it keeping for a while if new books were to stop? Probably. Heck, there's probably Tunnels and Trolls forums out there still providing fan support. Does that mean the game "continued?" Only in the loosest sense of the word. It's not providing new product and no new company picks it up, well...without actual commercial product and lacking the ability of the fanbase to legal generate new product? I don't really see that as anything resembling "it'll never die!" That's just the existing fanbase not really quitting.



Without new realeases it will slowly die off. As the number of new SR fans goes down and the number of old vets stop playing goes up. Without new cannon material, getting new fans will be harder.
Headshot_Joe
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Mar 22 2010, 08:58 AM) *
Without new realeases it will slowly die off. As the number of new SR fans goes down and the number of old vets stop playing goes up. Without new cannon material, getting new fans will be harder.

Dude, I don't know about this. I personally know people who still play AD&D from the late eighties... Some things, THAC0 included, will never die...

Even if Shadowrun went out of print, with no new development, there would still be a strong, if small, fan-base for the game. We actually see this with most genres of RPGs, where even after one version of the game has ceased being printed, people still cling to it, regardless of the fact that there are newer versions available. I don't believe this would change if it went out of print, just as I wouldn't switch from SR4 to SR5 if it came out in a year. Sure, I might eventually change, once some of the better peripheral books came out, but I wouldn't need to, and would be happy playing SR4 for, well, possibly the rest of my tabletop gaming days. And I can tell you with certainty that I will be inducting new blood, as will every other player and GM who likes the game.
tete
QUOTE (Headshot_Joe @ Mar 22 2010, 05:20 PM) *
Dude, I don't know about this. I personally know people who still play AD&D from the late eighties... Some things, THAC0 included, will never die...


Those people grow old though and getting young people interested in THAC0 is difficult making the numbers dwindle. It may be 100+ years before its just a footnote in RPG history but it will go away. Also D&D is still being made, its not like Amber where if it wasn't for the books there would probably be no new blood for a long dead RPG.
Ophis
I was going to vote pro CGL, but then I saw AH had quit and that's the last straw.

Someone else's turn.
LurkerOutThere
Commodore? You really want to use commodore as a source?

1) Shadowrun makes money, plain and simple, that's why it will not go out of production at least in the near future and not go into an open source or community environment. The company that owns the IP (tops at last look) sees it as an investment, and likely a fairly substantial one, why would they allow that to go into the public domain when it's still viable.

2) The corpse is still not cold.
Summerstorm
Hm... i have some unpopular opinions on that all, i think:

1. Doesn't matter. If somebody releases book and i like it its good. If not i am getting my fix somewhere else or write my own stuff.

2. Well in all fairnis: Only the one with the license. But making it completely free is fine too.

3. It will keep losing players, but somewhere someone will always play shadowrun. Hell there are people still playing AD&D unfazed by all the million-billion new editions and crap coming out there.
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Dread Moores @ Mar 22 2010, 01:31 PM) *
I'd be cautious of equating hugely popular as automatically equaling hugely terrible.


I think he is stating his fear for a terrible product yet popular who would creat the scenario he posted before.
Whipstitch
N/m.
CanadianWolverine
For me the future of pretty much any P&P RPG lies not in P&P but PC online multiplayer with GM run virtual settings. Not because I have anything against P&P or social interactions of the face to face nature but because increasingly it seems the only way to bridge the gap in scheduling conflicts and finding other people with similar interests.
otakusensei
By not full filling obligations to their freelancers, CGL has effectively shit where it sleeps. The company has shed it's talent (sorry Jason) and I don't see the parties involved kissing and making up. Things might change if CGL retains the license, but given the things that have come to light I'd be surprised if that happened now. Even if it does, Shadowrun with key talent isn't going to be the same. Creative product like this can't just have a new crew swapped in.

Maybe things will even out and CGL will clean up and make good. If the depth of the issue is to be believed that will be supremely difficult. I would love to see a world where all my favorite creatives come back and live under one big happy system where I buy books regularly and everyone gets paid.

Someone got greedy and fucked that up. Let the unfucking begin. I'll be here ready to do my part.
Daylen
the polls don't matter this is not yet a communist or socialist country with economic democracy. If catalyst can't hack it and the rights and such go up for sale the person/group who ups the money for it will make the decision. And that's for the best anyway to get anyone out of business who cant hack it and let someone possibly more savvy give it a try.
kjones
The Shadowrun license is fairly lucrative, as far as game publishing goes. As long as there's money to be made, someone will pick it up - the best we can hope for is that whoever does appreciates what makes Shadowrun awesome.
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (CanadianWolverine @ Mar 22 2010, 01:39 PM) *
For me the future of pretty much any P&P RPG lies not in P&P but PC online multiplayer with GM run virtual settings. Not because I have anything against P&P or social interactions of the face to face nature but because increasingly it seems the only way to bridge the gap in scheduling conflicts and finding other people with similar interests.

Your in the far minority on that score. I'm running my monthly shadowrun game down at the local game store next weekend, there is the distincty possibility one of the players will have to break off and form a second table as interest in this seems to grow exponentially. On multiple occasions i've had to turn people down wishing to play in my home game because I just don't have enough room. Yes online is great if you want to play with a few select people who otherwise cannot meet. But i have no problem finding players for traditional games.
Fatum
I doubt that no more official books means death for a system, especially one with a good fan community - say, Planescape is still going strong enough, despite not really being officially supported since the second edition.
That said, I'd for one prefer CGL staying with the license - any change is to the worse, and they are working with the setting well enough for my liking.
Fatum
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Mar 23 2010, 01:16 AM) *
Your in the far minority on that score. I'm running my monthly shadowrun game down at the local game store next weekend, there is the distincty possibility one of the players will have to break off and form a second table as interest in this seems to grow exponentially. On multiple occasions i've had to turn people down wishing to play in my home game because I just don't have enough room. Yes online is great if you want to play with a few select people who otherwise cannot meet. But i have no problem finding players for traditional games.


Circumstances differ, and frankly, it's not that easy to find a group if you don't have rping acquaintances already; and online gaming is a saver. On the other hand, I fail to see how online invalidates the need for P&P sourcebooks.
Cergorach
QUOTE
CGL (they still own the SR license)

CGL doesn't own the SR license, Topps does for the pen & paper game and novels, Microsoft does for computer games. CGL just has a license to produce pen & paper RPG products, and I don't even know if it's an exclusive license. That also touches the OS idea, Topps and MS won't ever let a creative license like SR or BT go OS when they own it. If it were to go OS, you would have to buy the property in it's entirety, and not just the part Topps owns, also the part MS owns. And that's just to much money to raise. Why also the part MS owns, just look at all the OS licenses, if you were to inhibit such a license to only work for p&p RPG and fiction, it wouldn't really be an OS license IMHO.

Best situation that CGL keeps doing what it's doing, eventually it'll get SR to the same level as BT is today (production value wise).
Stahlseele
Pegasus Spiele in Germany.
Pegasus Spiele in Germany.
Shadowrun, no matter if it will live or not, will not be the same again, as long as the people who have been doing shadowrun for the last few years are not on board again.
The community, and please don't take this too personal, should not EVER get a hold of the universe. We get to play in it, and that is good enough.
Most of the time, we can't even agree on something that's more or less clearly stated in the books. And then think of the whole Pink Mohawk and Black Trench-Coat fiasco.
TBRMInsanity
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Mar 22 2010, 11:38 AM) *
Commodore? You really want to use commodore as a source?

1) Shadowrun makes money, plain and simple, that's why it will not go out of production at least in the near future and not go into an open source or community environment. The company that owns the IP (tops at last look) sees it as an investment, and likely a fairly substantial one, why would they allow that to go into the public domain when it's still viable.

2) The corpse is still not cold.


I used the Commodore company as an example because they had an excellent product (Amiga) and squandered it. While this isn't what is happening at CGL, it is an example of what can happen when bad management gets in the way of an excellent product.

-----------------------------------------------------

I will go on the record to say that CGL makes the most beautiful and useful Shadowrun books I have ever seen printed (and I've played since SR1). I'm not doubting the quality of their product or the people directly involved in the production of those products (they are obviously doing a better job then any other RPG in the market IMHO). What worries me is that all this great talent is being besmirched by some idiot in the higher echelons and I would be greatly saddened if one person's mistakes would cause the downfall of this great product, its stellar quality, and its awesome community.
Link
QUOTE (Headshot_Joe @ Mar 22 2010, 05:20 PM) *
Dude, I don't know about this. I personally know people who still play AD&D from the late eighties... Some things, THAC0 included, will never die...

Even if Shadowrun went out of print, with no new development, there would still be a strong, if small, fan-base for the game. We actually see this with most genres of RPGs, where even after one version of the game has ceased being printed, people still cling to it, regardless of the fact that there are newer versions available. I don't believe this would change if it went out of print, just as I wouldn't switch from SR4 to SR5 if it came out in a year. Sure, I might eventually change, once some of the better peripheral books came out, but I wouldn't need to, and would be happy playing SR4 for, well, possibly the rest of my tabletop gaming days. And I can tell you with certainty that I will be inducting new blood, as will every other player and GM who likes the game.

There are AD&D or D&D players using the late 70's to early 80's editions. They even cooked up OSRIC to give a legal footing for publishing new material for profit.
Bull
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Mar 22 2010, 01:38 PM) *
2) The corpse is still not cold.


Heck, there's not even a corpse yet. CGL just took a nasty shot from a high caliber rifle.

Bull
Bull
QUOTE (Link @ Mar 23 2010, 12:15 AM) *
There are AD&D or D&D players using the late 70's to early 80's editions. They even cooked up OSRIC to give a legal footing for publishing new material for profit.


Over on RPGnet, there's a guy who posts under the handle "Old Geezer" (Don't remember his real name off hand). He used to play with Gargy Gygax and Dave Arneson. He still plays OD&D. However, it amuses me to no end that he actually likes D&D 4E (Though sticks with "his" system), and he plays Warcraft with the RPGnet guild. smile.gif

Bull
Dread Moores
QUOTE (Fatum @ Mar 22 2010, 06:30 PM) *
I doubt that no more official books means death for a system, especially one with a good fan community - say, Planescape is still going strong enough, despite not really being officially supported since the second edition.


Sure, but how many new fans are coming into Planescape? Or AD&D? Or Tunnels and Trolls? Without commercial product out there? Not many.
Patrick Goodman
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Mar 22 2010, 12:38 PM) *
2) The corpse is still not cold.

The corpse isn't even a corpse yet. Amusing as these polls can be, could we stop the panic for a minute and see how things shake out before we declare anyone or anything dead?
imperialus
QUOTE (Dread Moores @ Mar 22 2010, 10:33 PM) *
Sure, but how many new fans are coming into Planescape? Or AD&D? Or Tunnels and Trolls? Without commercial product out there? Not many.


Well there are at least 4 fans of the Holmes Redbox one of whom I'm married to who started slinging dice for the first time about 4 months ago.
Dread Moores
QUOTE (imperialus @ Mar 22 2010, 11:43 PM) *
Well there are at least 4 fans of the Holmes Redbox one of whom I'm married to who started slinging dice for the first time about 4 months ago.


Sure. Like I said, not many. It's certainly not dead, but without at least some degree of product (commercial or community based) hitting a group of people's attention, it's not really alive either. It's just sort of...zombie-like.

Edit: None of this above really applies to SR at all yet. I'm not sure why there's a sudden rush to call it dead. Just hard to really call AD&D an "active" game for my opinion. I get there's still a fanbase for it, but I have really high doubts its making much new player market penetration. If it's not bringing in new blood to replace the old that will eventually leave, that just doesn't really fit an "active" game for me. That's only personal opinion though.
Bull
QUOTE (Dread Moores @ Mar 22 2010, 11:58 PM) *
Edit: None of this above really applies to SR at all yet. I'm not sure why there's a sudden rush to call it dead. Just hard to really call AD&D an "active" game for my opinion. I get there's still a fanbase for it, but I have really high doubts its making much new player market penetration. If it's not bringing in new blood to replace the old that will eventually leave, that just doesn't really fit an "active" game for me. That's only personal opinion though.


I don't think any published game that had fans can truly ever die. There is always someone out there who talks about it, and at least occasionally breaks it out and plays, even if it's just for old times sake. Heck, I ran a Redbox Basic D&D game at Origins a couple years ago for shits and giggles.

I like your term though. I think games that are no longer published or supported can be considered "Inactive". Shy of a ton of fan support, you're not going to see many games no longer being produced make any "Forward" progress or fine new material for them. (There are a few out there though, to be sure).

Bull
Bull
And to clarify an error in the poll options... CGL does not "Own the license". Topps owns the Property, CGL licenses that Property from them. A minor thing, and a common mistake.

A license is an agreement between two parties, generally, that grants permission to one party. A Drivers License is grants someone permission to drive. Hunting license grants permission to hunt. A publishing license grants permission to publish books based on a property.

Bull
Tachi
QUOTE (Bull @ Mar 22 2010, 10:20 PM) *
Heck, there's not even a corpse yet. CGL just took a nasty shot from a high caliber rifle.

Bull


Yeah Bull, but the question seems to still remain, with quite a few people, of weither anyone has bothered to apply a tourniquet, or if they'll let the trusted talent keep bleeding out. No offense to those still there dude, we know who you are, but the loss of so many people that we trusted with the setting is bound to have an effect on consumer confidence. I'm not to worried at this point, I'll wait for a while before I panic.


"When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." << The standard response to uncertainty is certainly in full force.
Bull
I understand. I don't have all the behind the scenes information, and there's something I can't talk about, but I think I can safely say that CGL is attempting to apply First Aid, at the very least.

It sucks that CGL has lost everyone that it has. They're all people I consider friends and know personally on some level, so it doubly sucks. And when CGL recovers, their loss will be felt for some time frown.gif

And while panic is a natural reaction, I am glad that a lot of folks are keeping a level head.

Bull
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Bull @ Mar 23 2010, 03:48 AM) *
A license is an agreement between two parties, generally, that grants permission to one party. A Drivers License is grants someone permission to drive. Hunting license grants permission to hunt. A publishing license grants permission to publish books based on a property.

Bull


Sooo, how much would it cost for us to get a fake license that allow us to publish Shadowrun material? cyber.gif
(Sorry, had to post this grinbig.gif)
JM Hardy
QUOTE (Bull @ Mar 23 2010, 02:10 AM) *
I understand. I don't have all the behind the scenes information, and there's something I can't talk about, but I think I can safely say that CGL is attempting to apply First Aid, at the very least.

Everyone that CGL lost sucks. They're all people I consider friends and know personally on some level, so it doubly sucks. And when CGL recovers, their loss will be felt for some time frown.gif

And while panic is a natural reaction, I am glad that a lot of folks are keeping a level head.

Bull


Not that I want to speak for Bull, but I'm pretty sure that when he says "Everyone that CGL lost sucks," he means that it sucks that they will not be working with CGL (a sentiment I share), not that the people themselves suck. Just thought it was a clarification worth making.

Jason H.
Cergorach
QUOTE (JM Hardy @ Mar 23 2010, 01:21 PM) *
Not that I want to speak for Bull, but I'm pretty sure that when he says "Everyone that CGL lost sucks," he means that it sucks that they will not be working with CGL (a sentiment I share), not that the people themselves suck. Just thought it was a clarification worth making.

Yeah, I had to read that statement multiple times, wondering if it was me that misinterpreted Bulls words wink.gif
Bull
embarrassed.gif Oops! embarrassed.gif

Yes, thanks you Jason. I've fixed my original post. That was what I meant.

I need a proofer for my message board posts, apparently wink.gif

Bull
nezumi
I have to admit, that is another way to "kill" Shadowrun. If CGL hires new freelancers and such, and those new people also have a terrible idea of where Shadowrun should go, that too would make me sad frown.gif However, it sounds like despite a lot of really good blood moving elsewhere, we still have a few of our great freelancers hanging around, right? JongWK? That other guy whose name slips my mind?

(And thank you, Brazilian, you understood my sentiments correctly.)
JM Hardy
So I see at least two ways this could continue. One is to go down the path where we try to characterize the freelancers who continue to work on Shadowrun. Are they knowledgeable enough? Skilled enough? Love Shadowrun enough? Love [x] style of Shadowrun as much as I do? And we could go back and forth on that a while.

Or we could decide that the only accurate way to judge the future of Shadowrun is to base our theories on reality instead of competing characterizations of people whom we may not know. So we stick to three main criteria:

1) Does Catalyst still have the license to publish Shadowrun books?
2) Are books coming out?
3) Do I like the books that are coming out?

I know it's not as immediately gratifying as speculation, but that's the only way we we'll know if Shadowrun has a future at CGL. I have my opinion about the freelancers I'm working with, and I'm very excited about the text they've turned in. And our art director loves Shadowrun and is doing awesome work. But I don't expect anyone to take my word on those points. Watch what comes out, see if you like it, and then you can better decide if Shadowrun and CGL have a future together.

Do I expect everyone on Dumpshock to like what will be coming out? No, but then I can't remember any product ever than met with unified praise across all of Dumpshockia. Indeed, if Dumpshock ever unites in praise of anything, I believe the Seventh Seal will open, and many of us will be sitting around wondering why all those nice people we used to know have suddenly disappeared.

Throughout the past seven months, including the previous eight days, I've been working to produce quality products for Shadowrun. That work hasn't stopped. And as I said, those products are the best indicators we'll have of Shadowrun's future.

Jason H.
TBRMInsanity
It is good to hear that new products are being created. I will certainly still buy them.
Dread Moores
QUOTE (JM Hardy @ Mar 23 2010, 09:18 AM) *
So I see at least two ways this could continue. One is to go down the path where we try to characterize the freelancers who continue to work on Shadowrun. Are they knowledgeable enough? Skilled enough? Love Shadowrun enough? Love [x] style of Shadowrun as much as I do? And we could go back and forth on that a while.


There's another real important aspect to consider here, and something Jason is leaving unsaid. I don't know how many of you are as familiar with the BT side of CGL, but that (online) community had an absolutely MAJOR crisis of confidence when the Jihad storyline premiered (following the rather unhappy, and silly, community response to Wizkids Mechwarrior). This was largely still a community that had come up through the Bryan Nystul era of Battletech, and the Jihad material under Bills and Herb was quite different (and much better, in my opinion) than that era. The game, the storyline, and the people involved had seen some major changes. Moving forward to the current era, and you still have some of those same names there. But try and find more than a small handful of the "big" names that were present in the Bryan Nystul era, well, there's not a ton (Randall, Blaine, Stackpole, probably). So, things move forward, change happened, new folks came on board, and the community survived. But here's the really important part. It wasn't the names that mattered. It was the talent behind them. It doesn't matter that an Adam Jury is gone (or rejoins). What matters is the talent that Adam brought to the table with his name (well, that and the White Jesus vibe). I can respect all the folks who have left, and wish them the best, but it doesn't leave me thinking that the game is in any less capable freelancer hands. Because at some point, all of those folks were new. We're not losing anything because "old-timers" left, we're losing something because talent left. On the other hand, it doesn't mean we're not getting anything good because "newbies" are showing up. We'll see what the new talent offers in terms of new product, just like we've done every other time in the past.

There's a whole lot of unnecessary hand-wringing (which hasn't been helped by some of the personal conflicts) going on here, at least until such time as we see what happens with the license.
nezumi
The response to that is, while the product they come up with may be good, even excellent, the truth is, most of us are happy with the game we're playing right now (otherwise we wouldn't be playing it), and making a new game that is different means, really, I can't expect to continue buying nice things for the game I'm enjoying right now.

Considering the change to SR4 took it a step further away from what I've been enjoying (not saying SR4 is a bad game - it's just not a game that I like to play), reducing the connections to SR3 increases the odds that they will take another step away.
CanadianWolverine
QUOTE (Fatum @ Mar 22 2010, 04:32 PM) *
Circumstances differ, and frankly, it's not that easy to find a group if you don't have rping acquaintances already; and online gaming is a saver. On the other hand, I fail to see how online invalidates the need for P&P sourcebooks.


Thank you for understanding the upsides of what I was trying to say.

I wasn't saying "online multiplayer" invalidates the the need for P&P sourcebooks, I merely view it as a progression, sorta like the SR settings progression from wired to wireless. And I am pretty sure I made it clear that is was a personal stance, wasn't trying to speak for a majority or even a minority.

How do I put this, hmm... We used to only be able to get our game on with pencil & paper, some dice, a common book, and a place to sit with others. Now we can type up notes, run a random number generator prog, download a .pdf, and join a chat room or whatever, like say join a forum. The only real difference I see is the commute.

So if I follow that progression into the future, I would hope that it would allow for something like what I enjoy with Neverwinter Nights (1 or 2), only instead of D&D have it be Shadowrun, a setting which I have enjoyed far more in its novels and source book than the D&D settings (Dragonlance, Eberon, Forgotten Realms, etc...) and source book. And SR's character creation point system I find far superior as well. I also find the D6 only a far more palatable system than the many different dice found in D&D.

In the mean time, I lurk around and try to wrap my head around IRC or MUD commands and never quite being satisfied with the interface and so on.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 23 2010, 02:43 PM) *
I have to admit, that is another way to "kill" Shadowrun. If CGL hires new freelancers and such, and those new people also have a terrible idea of where Shadowrun should go, that too would make me sad frown.gif However, it sounds like despite a lot of really good blood moving elsewhere, we still have a few of our great freelancers hanging around, right? JongWK? That other guy whose name slips my mind?

(And thank you, Brazilian, you understood my sentiments correctly.)

That other guy?
The guy who called himself a new Freelancer some days back on dumpshock?
catadmin?
nezumi
(actually, that's an empty spot so if a freelancer comes up and says "hey, what about me, don't you like my work?" I can say 'oh yeah, that's what I meant back there. I just forgot your name, sorry.'

But don't tell anyone. It doesn't work if you advertise it.)
Mongoose
QUOTE (Bull @ Mar 23 2010, 04:22 AM) *
Over on RPGnet, there's a guy who posts under the handle "Old Geezer" (Don't remember his real name off hand). He used to play with Gargy Gygax and Dave Arneson. He still plays OD&D. However, it amuses me to no end that he actually likes D&D 4E (Though sticks with "his" system), and he plays Warcraft with the RPGnet guild. smile.gif

Bull



Not that surprising. Old school D&D is pretty hack & slash. Gygax adapted a miniature wargame rules set for OD&D; D&D 4e is heavily miniatures driven, in part to cater to the "tactical combat" that Warcraft players are used to.

==========
Break to avoid double posting
==========

So, what does this mean for folks who are NOT freelancers, but were hoping to send in proposals? I'm guessing the need for / response to such submissions is pretty much suspended?
JM Hardy
QUOTE (Mongoose @ Mar 25 2010, 07:51 PM) *
So, what does this mean for folks who are NOT freelancers, but were hoping to send in proposals? I'm guessing the need for / response to such submissions is pretty much suspended?


Honestly, I never have a ton of time to review proposals, but I try to get to them when I can. If you have a proposal that also has a sample of your writing, though, you can always send it in, and it can also serve as an audition piece for work on other books. I'll PM you with my e-mail address.

Jason H.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012