I've been thinking about his lately, and have come to a few conclusions about using a VCR on a motorcycle.

It has been stated in the BBB and other sources that both decking and rigging puts the body in a state very similar to sleep, this is so you don't flail about and injure yourself or give your location away.

Now, I've known several people to set up their motorcycle with a rigger black-box to pilot it. Big problem unless you're sitting in a sidecar. A motorcycle is already a fairly unstable vehicle, that's one of it's strengths, it's light agile and incredibly cool. It is however also something you never EVER want to fall asleep while driving, you'll have an impressive case of road rash in a matter of seconds.

So, am I alone in thinking that rigging a motorcycle without sitting in a sidecar would be absolute suicide?

Yes, because Rigger 3 provides you with a piece of gear called the Motorbike Gyrostabilization System specifically designed to keep a motorcycle upright while being rigged or driven as a drone. Sorry, I don't have my book available or I'd supply a page number as well.

[EDIT] Redundant post [/EDIT]

I'm familiar with that piece of gear. But, it does nothing for keeping the driver attached to the bike, which is the problem I am bringing up. One sharp turn and bamn, skid, ow.

I know what you're getting at Nikoli. Grendel is right, there is a piece of gear which is supposed to compensate but at high speeds I very much doubt it would cut it. But on the other hand, with everything in SR - its 2060 man! Why the hell not?

In other words, its a bit of an anomoly but it makes the game cooler, so either shrug and say what the hell, or disallow it. Your game, your call.

The driver can be kept attached by velcroing him in place or whatever else. Maybe a custom harness for rigging in a motorcycle.

That's not a bad idea AE. I could definitely see that working. Although the Drone rigger in me thinks putting the party on 4 or 5 RC motorcycles would look real spiffy as they all move in concert around a van, providing outriders.

Thinking about the fiction, though, you might find some answers there.

In one of the stories on the fanpro website, reprinted from Rigger 2, is a tale of a rigger hightailing it away in a van from pursuit after a run. When he gets out, he's got leg cramp - as if he'd been running really fast for too long. He's got pulled muscles and stuff. Admittedly, he was redlining the vehicle and probably giving it stress points by exceeding the speed limit, but there is certainly some two way involvement. The rigger describes the sensations as if he's physically doing it, but its all metaphorical - running faster for accelerating, for example. On a bike, maybe the rigged system is tweaked so the RAS override is less sensitive, allowing you maintain that crucial control over centre of gravity. With the gyroscope as well, it might be enough.

Is that a better rationale?

Works for me.

I can see that, though again, it violates the precepts of the RAS technology. I like the harness idea, though it would have to have a quick release setup kinda simliair to teh motorcycle airbag system so you wouldn't get tangled with the bike if you spilled.

Though it is conceivable that the system just keeps you comfortably in the position you were when you jacked in, and not necessarily a loose lump of a meat body. That would explain how Fastjack in the 1st ed opening story stayed upright when jacking in, and how riggers stay on bikes. otherwise you'd always need a 5-point harness when rigging any normal vehicle, couase you'd submarine otherwise. though the thought of a dwarf stuffed into a side-car rigging it from there amuses me.

RAS override does NOT have to completely override physical actions. Otherwise deckers not running pure DNI would be screwed cos they couldn't use the keys on the deck. It makes it difficult to concentrate on actions in the physical world, not impossible. Given that, something like well trained fingers flying over a keyboard or leaning into a curve which you can still feel because you're rigged in would be quite feasible, imho.

I wasn't aware that deckers usually used the keyboards, I always chalked that up to artists ideas of modern computing, and not reflecting the technology described.

If they aren't running pure DNI, they have to be using physical interfaces. That's the point about Direct Neural Interface! ;D

Wow, neato. Learn soemthign new everyday. Just gave me an idea for a decker flaw too... Carpel Tunnel syndrone, +1 TN - 1 iniit when not using pure DNI, can be avoided in four hour stints with aspirin.

same goes with cyber - eg to activate spurs if you haven't attached DNI you have to train a muscle reflex to pop and retract them. Headware which needs activating I beleive is assumed to have DNI, since you can't flex your brain.

I am willing to stand corrected on the cyberware issue, but I'm positive about the RAS override. It certainly CAN be set to completely override a la BTL and simsense chips, but it doesn't have to be.

Reminds me of a Decker I had in 2nd ed. There were references in the shadowland talking that you could multi-task with a Encehalon, so I had a decker with a mono whip. would put matrix on hold, scare crap out of person bothering her then go back to decking.

Even with the stabilization to keep the bike from tipping over, what's to keep the rigger from falling off?

The VCR is SO wired into the lower brain and spine, prehaps it can manuplate the muscles directly to keep it up? *shrug* I just require the gyro on a rigged bike.

Solution:

BMW Bike from Akira (almost recline in the bike).
5 point harness.
Hydraulic system to shift your body weight when you need to lean.
Clipped shoes and gloves to keep your body tight to the bike.

Anything else?

Problem with that, you take a spill and they wetvac your remains off the street.

ok, then add a couple mercury switches to the bike, and an electric release for the harness, coupled with an easy disconnecting rig.

Nice, I like it. now if only we can get it past the Safety Comission...

I'm pretty sure the bike was a honda, it did have an hrc logo on it (honda racing corporation)

Yeah, I was disappointed that more bikes along those lines weren't in the SR book or any of the Rigger books. I personally see the motorcycle as one of the transports of choice for a runner, it's fast, easy to hide and is just damned cool.

My view is that of course you have full control over your balance while rigging a bike. The reason for rigging into a vehicle is to drive better is it not? Driving a bike is all about balance and I dont like the thought of leaving that part entirely to a machine, as in some of your suggestions. I would say that the sensor input of the rig enhance your control. And maybe theres´s some kind of special "wired reflexes" version in the VCR for bikes, so you have total mental control over the vehicle (just like with a rigged car) only your body is a part of the system, ´cause it most certainly is when riding a bike in real life.

Asastrally projecting mages lay sprawled on the floor, deckers and riggers just get an absent look on their faces, that´s how I see it.

I kinda see it the same way with mages though, the slack, blank look of one who has just been subjected to 40 hours of non-stop barney in a matter of 20 seconds.

Very true, but given the extremes to whicha rigger can push a vehicle, that would preclude some seriously stiff muscles or possibly torn ligaments as mentioned earlier ina book.

Tweak the RAS so it embeds the sensations rather then bypassing or overriding the user's own sensory input.

The smartlink provides a limited simsense rig that doesn't fully override a user's own senses but rather augments the existing sim feed.

-Siege

Well, for a rigger to control a motorcycle, the bikes would have to have elctronic controls, drive by wire kinda thing. Parts of it are possible in todays world. They have throttle controlled by computers now on modern cars, no throttle linkages or cables necessary. Fuel injectors control the fuel, and an electric (very fine one, mind you) motor controls the throttle plate controlling airflow. Some new diesel don't even have a throttle plate to control the airflow, they vary the pressure supplied by the turbo by controlling pitch on the turbine blades inside the unit. Thats cars you can buy now, mass produced today. Electronically controlled brakes have been done on racbikes before;when Mick Doohan broke his foot (or something) they installed a rear brake operated with a thumb button as opposed to his right foot, and he still dominated gp bikes like that. So brake and throttle fine, steering is the issue. Problem is, steering a motorcycle is very complex when you break it down, there are many inputs to control it. Pressure on the handle bars, pressure on the footpegs, leaning the body left and right and even front and back to some extent to control traction. Brakes and throttle are also heavy factors when steering. You'd have to let the driver some control, there's not enough room for counterweights to effectively reproduce human movement and control. but then, that would make you wonder why the rigger with bikes 6 would be better than someone with wired reflexes at bike 6. If the driver controls it, than someone with faster reflexes and movement would be better in control if skill was the same. Unless maybe the rig bypasses any human intervention, and sends motor impulses with out any brain interaction, bypassing the brain entirely and sending signals straight down the spinal cord. That would give faster reflexes, and still put a computer in control. The rig and VCR implant would have to include something like that to make any sense, but then it would only matter on a motorcycle. Maybe make motorcycling an option on vcr's? Why would they build that much extra in if less than a third of purchasers would use it? That would be a lot of extra programming and signal outputs than necessary for anyhting else, where everything is controlled by electronics. And I just dont see how a bike could be as effective if everything was controlled by electronics.

edit: I should really try using multiple paragraphs. sorry guys

dont forget that a RAS works like when you are asleep, you may not know your body is there but that does not mean that your body goes limb, your still tossing and turning in bed but your not aware of this.

most likely long haul drivers useing rigger systems have the VCR kinda shock the mucles so that they are not compleatly out of tune when you jack out (mutch like a hunter being in the same posision for long, it gets unconfortable after some time).

if so then this can be extended to allso cover balance when your on a bike. basicly your body becomes one more part of the bike and i dont realy see the need for a gyro unit as the drivers body is used for that (alltho its there for when you want to have the bike drive itself mutch like a drone).

its not like a deckers body goes limb either, you can still control it to a degree. in BBB there is a part that talks about the decker going into the system and not bothering to set her face in any special shape as its to mutch effort.

...Seat belts would work at keeping the rigger strapped in if the bike was anything like Kaneda's, I think...That and the velcro idea mentioned...

Actually in the discription of RAS override, its says (roughly) that it dosent totally turn off, just mostly off, as to not allow cramping. Cept when deckers get sucked into UV, then you are gonna come back to some burning.
But in all honesty, I dont care the real hows. A seatbelt on a bike is just generaly a bad idea.

Why?

And furthermore, how would a UV-level system cause RAS problems, again?

Hey, I dont write the rules, I just read them. Matrix pg 49.
Can you say road rash? I have no intention of being strapped to something that can flip over and skid down the road with me still attached,

Which is I would buy a roll cage. Kaneda's bike would've looked cool with a roll cage...

A croch rocket with a roll cage? *wonders if you could mount an armored turrent on it too....*

Never thought of that, before.

Heh, as long as you dont fire sideways. Hmmmm but with a rocket launcher....

Eh. With a LMG you could fire sideways. I think. Just don't try the same tactic with a Victory Assault Gatling.

Rigger: What the hell are you doing with that thing?!

Gunner: Laying down suppressive fire! What's it look li---*interrupted as the vehicle falls over*

Ahhhh, yes. This discussion and TheScamp's sig both remind me...When can DSF expect to hear about the game session known as "Rigger, Please!"?

So,it'd be at least 30 year old tech in 2060?Great,high tech toys.

The thing is shadowrun toys should be made up,of things that mkae ourwildest dreams look tame.That bike may be high tech now,but in shadowrun it may as well be a car from world war 2,compared to one made now.

Tell,ya what .Think about this,shadowrun may well have retro looks being cool.But Retro is rarely piratical.When it is ,it is mainly so because something went FUBAR.

Retro,bikes,sure they look cool. The thing you have to ask yourself, is looking cool worth spening years in a natioial pristion,or worse a corporate one?You may get lucky,and get killed.

Look back 60 years, think how much,computers,cars,music,styles,law have changed.