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KCKitsune
OK, everyone, my Search Fu might be weak... or not... but I could not find this topic being brought up anywhere else.

Protective Covers can be either transparent or one way reflective... I was wondering if anyone else thought that you could put vision enhancements in them. I'm thinking that the price would be 100 nuyen.gif + 100 nuyen.gif for each vision enhancement slot + price of each vision enhancement.

Say for example you wanted protective covers with 3 vision enhancement slots. In those 3 slots you wanted Flare Comp, Smartlink, Image Link. The total price for this would be 975 nuyen.gif as compared to a pair of contacts that only costs 725 nuyen.gif. Another disadvantage would be you could not change the loadout of the lenses without surgery.
HappyDaze
Protective covers could easily be removable by loosening tiny screws that hold them to socketed anchorpoints around the eye socket.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 24 2010, 10:17 AM) *
I was wondering if anyone else thought that you could put vision enhancements in them.

Yes, people did. With SR4A, the have no capacity to take vision enhancements, so it's gone.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 24 2010, 06:33 AM) *
Yes, people did. With SR4A, the have no capacity to take vision enhancements, so it's gone.

What if they added it back in?

I mean mages can't use it for spell targeting. For everyone else it's just a more expensive and harder to lose set of contacts.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 24 2010, 03:01 PM) *
I mean mages can't use it for spell targeting. For everyone else it's just a more expensive and harder to lose set of contacts.
Huh? one-way reflective means that the side of the covers, which is visible for other people, is reflective, just like mirror shades. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to see at all let alone target spells. If the covers could support optical vision enhancements, the mage could use them to target spells.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Mar 24 2010, 09:07 AM) *
Huh? one-way reflective means that the side of the covers, which is visible for other people, is reflective, just like mirror shades. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to see at all let alone target spells. If the covers could support optical vision enhancements, the mage could use them to target spells.

The only vision enhancement that I *think* can be optical would be vision magnification. Everything else would be electronic.

The only reason I brought this whole subject up is that Protective covers are so much like contacts, that I thought "Why not" I mean it's not like they are over powered or game breaking.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 24 2010, 03:12 PM) *
The only vision enhancement that I *think* can be optical would be vision magnification. Everything else would be electronic.
I agree. Microscopic vision could be optical too.

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 24 2010, 03:12 PM) *
The only reason I brought this whole subject up is that Protective covers are so much like contacts, that I thought "Why not" I mean it's not like they are over powered or game breaking.
They are either useless or a must-have, depending how you interpret their protective value. If the character gets +1/+1 to any damage resistance test, almost everyone would like to have them, if they only apply to direct hits to the eyes, which by RAW cannot be produced except by GM fiat, they are a total waste of money and possibly essence.

Allowing them to carry enhancements is a nearly free increase of the capacity of cybereyes.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Mar 24 2010, 09:20 AM) *
Allowing them to carry enhancements is a nearly free increase of the capacity of cybereyes.

What about contact lenses? I mean they allow the exact same thing. Lets look at Rating3 contacts with Smartlink, Vision Enhancement 3, and Low Light vision. This set of contacts gives 8 capacity.

The only difference between my idea and someone wearing contacts is that the GM can't have the Protective covers get lost.

Also my idea has the protective covers costing more depending on how much junk you put in there.
MadDogMike
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 24 2010, 10:56 AM) *
What about contact lenses? I mean they allow the exact same thing. Lets look at Rating3 contacts with Smartlink, Vision Enhancement 3, and Low Light vision. This set of contacts gives 8 capacity.

The only difference between my idea and someone wearing contacts is that the GM can't have the Protective covers get lost.

Also my idea has the protective covers costing more depending on how much junk you put in there.


OK, given this argument I find it hard to argue; hell, protective covers are already more expensive than the best contacts anyway. Can't really make an argument against contacts on cybereyes by the rules anyway if memory serves.

And on a semi-related note, how much extra (if any) would you charge for protective covers like the ones shown in the new Deus Ex trailer? Retractable one seem very nice for not keeping your eyes perpetually covered.

EDIT: Whoops, must have been thinking of last edition on the price thing; Rating 3 contacts at 150 nuyen.gif is higher than 100 nuyen.gif protective covers. Still, the price is close enough I think the comparison holds.
Tachi
It wouldn't be RAW, but, given their nature couldn't you just give them the same capabilities as glasses or goggles? Houserule it.
HappyDaze
You could have Protective Covers do what they really should do - keep the eyes clear of irritants. Smoke, sand, and stinging winds could certainly apply environmental modifiers that Protective Covers help to mitigate. Beyond that, having Protective Covers perform as Flare Compensation for no added cost (or capacity) would be reasonable if they are constructed of a light-sensitive smart material. In effect, you get an extra 1 capacity slot for Flare Compensation in exchange for having fairly obvious eye enhancement.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (MadDogMike @ Mar 24 2010, 11:54 AM) *
And on a semi-related note, how much extra (if any) would you charge for protective covers like the ones shown in the new Deus Ex trailer? Retractable one seem very nice for not keeping your eyes perpetually covered.

I would say those would be 500 nuyen.gif and like regular protective covers not cost any Essence. They skin link into your PAN.

QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 24 2010, 11:56 AM) *
It wouldn't be RAW, but, given their nature couldn't you just give them the same capabilities as glasses or goggles? Houserule it.

Sorry I don't see them having the same capacity as glasses or goggles. They are too small. Now the protective covers that MadDogMike linked to (1:27 in the above clip) might have 4 slots... and actually protect your eyes. wobble.gif
Tachi
The retractables in that video were pretty fuckin cool.

But yeah, maybe not the same as glasses or goggles, but, definately more than contacts. Split the difference.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 24 2010, 12:23 PM) *
The retractables in that video were pretty fuckin cool.

But yeah, maybe not the same as glasses or goggles, but, definately more than contacts. Split the difference.

Yeah, I would have any character with cyber having those in a New York Minute.

As for capacity... say that they have 5 as that splits the difference between contacts and goggles.
Tachi
I was just looking at the SR4A changes doc. My current finances don't include a new books budget at the moment, are these numbers what SR4A actually says about imaging devices?

Contact Lenses (Rating 13) 13 -- Rating x 50

Glasses (Rating 14) 14 Rating x 25

Goggles (Rating 16) 16 Rating x 50

For some reason they don't seem reasonable, an improvement of only 1 going from contacts to glasses? Either contacts are high, or glasses are low, and if glasses are low then goggles are really low. I sometimes wish people wouldn't just pull numbers out of their asses when they write this stuff.

Mickle5125
QUOTE (MadDogMike @ Mar 24 2010, 09:54 AM) *
And on a semi-related note, how much extra (if any) would you charge for protective covers like the ones shown in the new Deus Ex trailer? Retractable one seem very nice for not keeping your eyes perpetually covered.


I'm sure everyone recognized the number of street sam mods that boyo had? obvious cyber arms, cyber eyes, cyber spurs...
Mongoose
I'd say protective covers ought to allow for vision enhancements. As precedent, I cite Neuromancer's Molly Millions. I'd say that overides any rulebooks. nyahnyah.gif

However, I've always wondered how a thin, flat lens can work as a magnification / low light / thermal / ultrasound type system. Things like an image link or flare comp or vision enhancement that don't involve optical processing (they are basically just filters) make sense for contacts (and eye covers and glasses) but those others don't so much. I suppose with glasses you could say there's small sensors built into the frames, but with contacts, where are the sensors? Especially considering there's effectively no real cost boost for the ultra-miniturization that would take place going from a google sized sensor to a pair of contacts, it just doesn't make sense to me.
KCKitsune
@Mongoose, I agree with you completely.

Now with that said, a pair of protective covers like the ones in the link MadDogMike gave would have vision mag capabilities. Think about it: the protective covers would flex and warp giving vision magnification. I would not say as good as regular vision mag (just a decrease in range by one category as compared to making everything short range), but better than nothing.
ZeroPoint
Vision magnification doesn't have to be optical. In this instance it would most likely be digital magnification. In which case you don't need any form of lens magnification. This would just about have to be the way it would be anyway for contacts and glasses. Either they would have a fixed magnification (meaning you would walk around all day with x10 magnification causing you to trip and bump into everything and eventually lose your lunch) or in the case of contacts they would be shifting on your eyeballs....which would just be weird.
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