Because it was taking over the ask the developers section.
First things first, the capacity listed for breast augmentations and cyberphalluses are not how much capacity they have, merely how much capacity they take up. So no implanted breast guns for you.
It does, however, shed light on another possibility. You can install a cyberdick wherever you felt like it. You can install more than one. There's no real reason it HAS to replace your existing equipment.
With that in mind, I ask, is there then the female equivalent? A cyber-vagina?
Also, multiple sets of breasts are possible.
Why do I bring this up? Is this pure juvenile bullshit? Possibly. But In a game with bunraku Parlors, I think it's worth discussing some of the new kinks cyberfetishists can get up to.
OK, so you can get a gland, auto-injector, nanites or other mod to chemically alter your sex fluids. What kind of new STDs are we going to introduce? Stepping aside from just delivering poisons (boring) I think a goodly number of people might lace their sex glands with endorphin releasers, to improve their partner's fun. A woman who's fluids dosed her male partner with SR4 Viagra could keep hiim up all night long. And an unscrupulous predator might lace their juices with something addictive, so that you HAD to keep coming back for more sex.
Full Version: Augmented Sex
Read Transmetropolitan?
Yes, Yes I do.
And the first thing I noticed in that regard was... Nano-cameras!
And the first thing I noticed in that regard was... Nano-cameras!
... 
Serial killer with an orgasm-activated penis shotgun.
And we must have nipple lasers; it's the law!
And we must have nipple lasers; it's the law!
Nipple lasers? What are you, an erotic cat burglar?
Just don't catch HSV-5.
-Frank
-Frank
Nah man, I just don't let it catch me.
Well, I would just make this general comment as a start:
As judged by the obscene amounts of money and popularity porn and drugs for sexual disfunctions rack in RL, any kind of medical augmentation that enhances any facet of sexual function and/or experience (and/or makes it under the command of conscious will, for males) is going to be EXTREMELY popular, widespread, eagerly researched and funded, and wanted in any kind of society with realistic humans that has the technological know-how, and extremely plausible and appropriate in any kind of sci-fi fiction that wants to be realistic for a 13+ audience.
Seriously folks, this is just a primal human fantasy fulfilled as immortality and virtual reality. If humans get the know-how, it is going to happen.
As judged by the obscene amounts of money and popularity porn and drugs for sexual disfunctions rack in RL, any kind of medical augmentation that enhances any facet of sexual function and/or experience (and/or makes it under the command of conscious will, for males) is going to be EXTREMELY popular, widespread, eagerly researched and funded, and wanted in any kind of society with realistic humans that has the technological know-how, and extremely plausible and appropriate in any kind of sci-fi fiction that wants to be realistic for a 13+ audience.
Seriously folks, this is just a primal human fantasy fulfilled as immortality and virtual reality. If humans get the know-how, it is going to happen.
The question is: Why do shadowrunners need stats for them? No one's saying such devices wouldn't exist. It's that they exist in texts made for shadowrunners (metagaming-wise especially).
What's next? Rules for going to the bathroom because going to the bathroom is something that obviously exists in the Sixth World, so it's foolish to assume such rules don't exist and no reason not to include them. That's the apparent logic being used here.
Me, I'd rather have had that wasted space used by something more appropriate to the actual game.
What's next? Rules for going to the bathroom because going to the bathroom is something that obviously exists in the Sixth World, so it's foolish to assume such rules don't exist and no reason not to include them. That's the apparent logic being used here.
Me, I'd rather have had that wasted space used by something more appropriate to the actual game.
Well, say you want to hold multiple small objects in your many cybervaginas. Or are playing a character that embraces a different definition of bisexual. Or your girlfriend is staring over your shoulder as you make the character and makes several "suggestions" to you.
With the new gear in Aug,,,one can create of hermaphrodite character, very easily.
Why you ask,,depends upon the concept,,,someone like a shaman/shamaness of the Seductress or the the Wild Male......being a bi sexed person,,,ones behaviors can go male or female.
Why you ask,,depends upon the concept,,,someone like a shaman/shamaness of the Seductress or the the Wild Male......being a bi sexed person,,,ones behaviors can go male or female.
| QUOTE (Ancient History) |
| Well, say you want to hold multiple small objects in your many cybervaginas. Or are playing a character that embraces a different definition of bisexual. Or your girlfriend is staring over your shoulder as you make the character and makes several "suggestions" to you. |
And these rules address any of that, how? Other than saying you lost some Essence and had to pay a token amount of cash. That's it. Any "special uses" are house rules that a GM has to come up with on the fly, just like they would have without the implants.
They add nothing to the game and take away things that actually could have added something tangible.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| The question is: Why do shadowrunners need stats for them? No one's saying such devices wouldn't exist. It's that they exist in texts made for shadowrunners (metagaming-wise especially). |
Ok, let me give you an example for a full body replacement cyborg then. Basically this individual have a wasting disease that has killed of all external muscles and also destroyed his sexual organs and all his hairfolicles have rotted away. Enter the Cyberbody "Almost Human" body replacement suite.
Cyberarms
Cyberlegs
Cybertorso
Cyberskull
Synthetic Hair
Penile Implant
With all the above he can now function as a normal human again, almost. And I dont know about you but that last item would be something I would like to have if it had been destroyed.
Sure, one can crack jokes about multiple sexual organs and how one can get a penis the size of a horse but those jokes will be old in no time just as balooning titties and other stuff will - But all things DO have a place in the setting and therefore it should exist.
Breast implants can change their size and thus making it useful by those "Cyberfaces" that use cybernetic body mods to change appearance.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) | ||
And these rules address any of that, how? Other than saying you lost some Essence and had to pay a token amount of cash. That's it. Any "special uses" are house rules that a GM has to come up with on the fly, just like they would have without the implants. They add nothing to the game and take away things that actually could have added something tangible. |
That is your POV (Point of View) not all those here share that same exact POV. To each their own.
One can build a concept character, which might mean not everything is optimized for shadowrunning.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| They add nothing to the game and take away things that actually could have added something tangible. |
They add realism? These are things that should exist in the setting, I'd say.
I honestly skimmed through them and thought nothing of it until I saw your post in the Q&A thread. You might think it's wasted space but it's very little space. And it even gave me an idea for a more humourous run, which I think will be really good for the game as a change of pace.
Can I ask what your group is generally like? I haven't introduced Augmentation to my group, yet. I have a player who will probably find cyber-genitalia hilarious and I wouldn't be entirely surprised if she outfitted her character with a dick, knowing her. But she is a good role-player. It wont be for puerile humour. Do you think your group will treat these rules in an immature way when they see them, or do any of them have issues with sex that will cause them to be offended? I'm just curious as this seems different to how someone might have complained about raptor legs and skates being wasted space because they didn't like them. (They're just a random example, btw - I actually really like them both).
-K.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| The question is: Why do shadowrunners need stats for them? No one's saying such devices wouldn't exist. It's that they exist in texts made for shadowrunners (metagaming-wise especially). |
I have no idea why you people think I'm offended by their inclusion. I just think it's wasted and stole space for things that would be more appropriate for the actual game. "I have a cybercock" is all these rules give you. That's it. Nothing tangible, nothing useful, nothing that you couldn't have said before these "rules" existed. And what did we lose? Whatever material was cut from the sourcebook to make room for these things. That's material that I'd have rather seen than this completely and totally useless filler. Even fluff text or more shadowtalk would have been better than saying "your tits cost 0.2 Essence."
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 29 2007, 12:20 AM) | ||
I have no idea why you people think I'm offended by their inclusion. I just think it's wasted and stole space for things that would be more appropriate for the actual game. "I have a cybercock" is all these rules give you. That's it. Nothing tangible, nothing useful, nothing that you couldn't have said before these "rules" existed. And what did we lose? Whatever material was cut from the sourcebook to make room for these things. That's material that I'd have rather seen than this completely and totally useless filler. Even fluff text or more shadowtalk would have been better than saying "your tits cost 0.2 Essence." |
Well the reason that I asked whether there were specific reasons for objecting to these on a sexual basis is because you haven't complained about the equal amounts of space given to fibreoptic hair, nano-tattoos, silky skin, chloroplast skin, horn implants, and others. I mean the shaped dermal implants take up more space than that given to breast implants and they have zero game effect. It's just "you can have your dermal plates in blue" stuff (note to the writers - I'm only using this to prove a point, I love blue dermal plates sort of fluff stuff.
)And it was also triggered by your comments in the last thread where you likened the inclusion of this stuff to puerile behaviour and said something like "what next ? Fart gags and gay jokes." I get neither of those in my group and don't percieve a similarity between those and the genitalia details in the book.
Asking whether there were particular issues seems entirely reasonable. If there are, then the debate will probably just end with everyone saying "don't put anything in the game you're not comfortable with and we all hope you have fun." But complaining about it being wasted space will provoke a lot of people to dispute your argument.
<shrugs> Fibreoptic hair and nano-tattoos don't lead to sophomoric, poorly tasted "humor." Hence associating them with equally sophomoric humor. And, again, is why I asked: What's next? Rules for taking a shit? It's a natural thing that exists in the Sixth World, so let's waste a few pages in Arsenal on it since there's no reason at all NOT to! <-- The last part being the sole explanation you people are giving for why this stuff should have been added. And it's asinine.
To each their own. Fancy yourself some kind of modern, sophisticated individual all you want. The fact remains: These rules add nothing but introducing sophomoric and poorly-tasted humor into the game, and opens up doors for the exact kind of rules I mentioned in the last paragraph.
The next time you complain about something important or useful being missing from the rules, though, just remember: You wanted those sex implants in the book instead.
To each their own. Fancy yourself some kind of modern, sophisticated individual all you want. The fact remains: These rules add nothing but introducing sophomoric and poorly-tasted humor into the game, and opens up doors for the exact kind of rules I mentioned in the last paragraph.
The next time you complain about something important or useful being missing from the rules, though, just remember: You wanted those sex implants in the book instead.
I am old enough to have watched a Late Night Talk Show hosted by Johnny Carson. Once an extremely attractive blonde female come on, she was exceptionally endowed in the upper torso, wearing a low cut dress that display alot of flesh.
She was talking about most men never looked at her face, their gaze stopped at her chest. Johnny pish poshed that.
She then had Johnny look at Doc the band leader off to the side, she then asked Johnny "What color are my eyes?" Johnny who had been tapping his pencil on the desk, suddenly stopped tapping it and threw it up in the air. He had no clue what her eye color was. The audience erupted into laughter.
You can use this as an example of a disguise of sorts, if your character has large endowments, most males will not recall her face.
As to why the rules for such are there, why not? To me they make the game more complete.
In RL such surgeries occur on a scale you can hardly imagine, so would it not be in use in 2070.
As for the two to three paragraphs that they occupy in the manual. *Shrugs* There is alot of things not in that manual, but then the manual would be bigger than a Webster dictionary.
She was talking about most men never looked at her face, their gaze stopped at her chest. Johnny pish poshed that.
She then had Johnny look at Doc the band leader off to the side, she then asked Johnny "What color are my eyes?" Johnny who had been tapping his pencil on the desk, suddenly stopped tapping it and threw it up in the air. He had no clue what her eye color was. The audience erupted into laughter.
You can use this as an example of a disguise of sorts, if your character has large endowments, most males will not recall her face.
As to why the rules for such are there, why not? To me they make the game more complete.
In RL such surgeries occur on a scale you can hardly imagine, so would it not be in use in 2070.
As for the two to three paragraphs that they occupy in the manual. *Shrugs* There is alot of things not in that manual, but then the manual would be bigger than a Webster dictionary.
Wow I guess im getting old, not to sound the anti prude or anything but as mentioned in past post about "grit". Whats more gritty then sex?
Sex, drugs and rock and roll or in 2070 Sex,drugs,magic,AR, dragons and electropunkrapafusion. It's gritty fluff it's ok to make fart jokes and laugh at yourselves sometimes too. I Remeber about 10 years ago a site for another cyber style game touched on this subject with such things as penile monospike and midnight lady with poison glands, SR simply following in history of implants in games. I've had players actually discuss these items as implants...way back during first edition...we were much younger then and told more fart jokes ;P
Sex, drugs and rock and roll or in 2070 Sex,drugs,magic,AR, dragons and electropunkrapafusion. It's gritty fluff it's ok to make fart jokes and laugh at yourselves sometimes too. I Remeber about 10 years ago a site for another cyber style game touched on this subject with such things as penile monospike and midnight lady with poison glands, SR simply following in history of implants in games. I've had players actually discuss these items as implants...way back during first edition...we were much younger then and told more fart jokes ;P
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 29 2007, 12:43 AM) |
| <shrugs> Fibreoptic hair and nano-tattoos don't lead to sophomoric, poorly tasted "humor." |
But the genitalia wont with my group, either. If you find that the presence of this stuff leads to moronic humour in your group, then I suspect that it's your group as all the posts here by others so far are very mature.
Note that I said that it doesn't lead to moronic humour. I chose not to use the phrase "poorly tasted" that you did, because I think it's the subject matter that you have a problem with which I don't, not the sophistication of the humour which is what I care about. And that brings us back to your (or your groups') own feelings about this subject matter. I.e. it's not a general concern of others.
The lines that you wrote in bold and underlined, stated that the question was why something with no practical rules value took up space in the book. That was dishonest. Your issue is with the subject matter, not the rules applications, as is evidenced by your reply to my question. I doubt adding practical rules applications to genital implants would make you feel better about the space usage, would it?
The issue here is that most of us haven't ascribed great importance to their presence in the book. We've noted that two very short paragraphs have covered these things and then accepted it with varying degrees of nonchalance. Your comments like:
| QUOTE |
| What's next? Rules for taking a shit? It's a natural thing that exists in the Sixth World, so let's waste a few pages in Arsenal on it since there's no reason at all NOT to! <-- The last part being the sole explanation you people are giving for why this stuff should have been added. And it's asinine. |
suggest a preconception about the subject matter that isn't shared by many of us here. Incidentally, "taking a shit" is a poor analogy because we can assume the process hasn't changed in 2070. But this is detailing something new in the setting - a difference between our world and SR2070. Detailing the features of a world that set it apart from our own is what gives value to a sourcebook.
I don't like being called asinine and I interpret any statement that what I say is asinine to mean just that. The "sole explanation for this stuff being added " is not "it's a natural thing that exists in the Sixth World so let's waste a few pages on it."
Firstly, it's not wasted if it has positives, and this case it both adds realism by showing that the world is thought out and goes beyond things that simply add dice to your shooting rules. It also gives GM's a price guide should the subject ever come up in a game (and far stranger things have). Secondly, it doesn't have any real negatives that I see. You're introducing hyperbole (as well as insulting people) in saying "waste a few pages" when we're talking about three short paragraphs in a 176 page book.
Besides, it's very clear from your lack of concern about other non-rules application material that your concern does not have to do with wasted space, but the subject matter, so you should stop using this as a rationale for the material being bad.
I attempted to short-cut all this contention before it began by suggesting you drop saying that it shouldn't be in there for reasons of space or rules applications, and just say outright that you had a problem with the subject matter, in which case I think everyone in this thread so far would have said "it's your game and you shouldn't include things that you or your players are uncomfortable with." That still is my attitude to this. But clearly a lot of other people here don't have a problem with it. Either because it's no big deal (such as myself), they actually want to use this in game, or because humour is humour and if they can get a few laughs out of their character's girlfriend giving him a gift certificate to 'Whole New You.' then they think that's a good thing.
| QUOTE |
To each their own. Fancy yourself some kind of modern, sophisticated individual all you want. |
You see, that just comes across as rude and patronising. What makes your tastes better than anothers?
| QUOTE |
The next time you complain about something important or useful being missing from the rules, though, just remember: You wanted those sex implants in the book instead. |
Hey - I don't like Technomancers and don't have them in my game. Imagine how I feel when it comes to space usage!
Like someone mentioned earlier, since cybernetic arms, legs, replacement and improved body parts are available, it is obvious to me that cyber genitalia and breasts would obviously be readily available, and in some cultures (Sim actors and actresses, for example) it would be almost expected.
I mean, I could almost envision the advertising (Be ready right now when the moment strikes, without the side effects of Viagra 6!) The cyber breasts that inflate/deflate were seen momentarily in Terminator 3. Did any guy watching that not wish his girl had a pair of those? And what girl with large breasts doesn't wish that sometimes she could be a little smaller when she doesn't want the attention right then? Any man would want to add some length, girth, and hardness at his command. The "hard" part would be convincing him to let his implants take a break.
As to the game effects, maybe they would have to be house ruled a little, but I think it could add atmosphere and be something that maybe adds to the player's take on the character's personality. But, imagine the face of the party with an extra 6 inches to add to a sexual attribute at their command. Even someone used to such things would take a moment to absorb the sudden presence.
I mean, I could almost envision the advertising (Be ready right now when the moment strikes, without the side effects of Viagra 6!) The cyber breasts that inflate/deflate were seen momentarily in Terminator 3. Did any guy watching that not wish his girl had a pair of those? And what girl with large breasts doesn't wish that sometimes she could be a little smaller when she doesn't want the attention right then? Any man would want to add some length, girth, and hardness at his command. The "hard" part would be convincing him to let his implants take a break.
As to the game effects, maybe they would have to be house ruled a little, but I think it could add atmosphere and be something that maybe adds to the player's take on the character's personality. But, imagine the face of the party with an extra 6 inches to add to a sexual attribute at their command. Even someone used to such things would take a moment to absorb the sudden presence.
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| With the new gear in Aug,,,one can create of hermaphrodite character, very easily. Why you ask,,depends upon the concept,,,someone like a shaman/shamaness of the Seductress or the the Wild Male......being a bi sexed person,,,ones behaviors can go male or female. |
Actually the black box text on page 54 about Evo intrigues me more.
I really want to make a gender shifting face.
Having what ever gender suits hir mood or the situation.
| QUOTE (knasser @ Jul 28 2007, 08:38 PM) | ||||
suggest a preconception about the subject matter that isn't shared by many of us here. Incidentally, "taking a shit" is a poor analogy because we can assume the process hasn't changed in 2070. But this is detailing something new in the setting - a difference between our world and SR2070. Detailing the features of a world that set it apart from our own is what gives value to a sourcebook. |
Obviously, you don't understand the amount of technological effort that goes into managing human excretion. I could certainly imagine drastic advancements in septic technology in the future as well as cyberimplants that add a great deal of convience to the process. Today, some people need to have portions of their colons removed and, no longer having rectums, are given an abdominal port thorough which their poop exits into a bag. I the Sixth World, similar cyber modifications may be done as a mater of convince. Digestive bioware may improve a person's digestive processes to the point that he doesn't have to poop at all, or an engineered rectal parasite may simply consume his poop, or he may have had his intestines modified for hindgut fermentation so that what comes out of him of perfectly edible to humans.
There is plenty of stuff that you can do with shitting, ranging from intestinal implants to high-tech toilets.
Personally, I occasionally have my characters buy three seashells instead of toilet paper, just as a matter of flavor. I have no idea how the three seashells work, however, and I would not mind plausible, well-written rules that enlighten me on this matter.
I think that the big complaint is that it is mechanically unnecessary (most of it can be lumped under 0-essence-cost cosmetic mods) and there is not enough accompanying fluff. In fact, fluff would, in some ways, have been preferable to hard rules.
I'm not going to complain one way or the other (I like juvenile humor and I can see some interesting possibilities), but I can see how some could feel that the space could have been better spent.
The best thing this accomplishes is that GMs no longer have a rules-valid reason to swat down such characters.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Personally, I occasionally have my characters buy three seashells instead of toilet paper, just as a matter of flavor. I have no idea how the three seashells work, however, and I would not mind plausible, well-written rules that enlighten me on this matter. |
I don't know, although I didn't have nearly the reaction that Doctor Funkenstein has I don't see a real need to introduce them as anything other then fluff either and would rather have had some other cool toy to play with, because come on, who here seriously thought that you couldn't go down to the local body shop and get your dick enhanced before AUG?
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| ... come on, who here seriously thought that you couldn't go down to the local body shop and get your dick enhanced before AUG? |
Yeah, but now he can have a canon cannon.
Touche' 
Hmmm deadly gas emission systems...course have to reinforce and hermeticaly seal the ummm offender.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Yeah, but now he can have a canon cannon. |
Made me laugh out loud, literally!
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) | ||
I have no idea why you people think I'm offended by their inclusion. I just think it's wasted and stole space for things that would be more appropriate for the actual game. "I have a cybercock" is all these rules give you. That's it. Nothing tangible, nothing useful, nothing that you couldn't have said before these "rules" existed. And what did we lose? Whatever material was cut from the sourcebook to make room for these things. That's material that I'd have rather seen than this completely and totally useless filler. Even fluff text or more shadowtalk would have been better than saying "your tits cost 0.2 Essence." |
Maybe there wasn't material there and since the book was months behind and the writers were tired of listening to whinny dumpshockers asking when the book was going to be out they needed something to fill some space. So they figured, hey cybercocks. Everyone will want one of those. It'll be hilarious.
Or maybe they figured they would put them in there for the sake of completeness. they're in there because they exist in the shadowrun world. just like all the other filler items that a shadowrunner doesn't need but has stats.
how about a crainial bomb. what shadowrunner wants that. that wastes 4 lines in a table and a bunch of text in the main book that they could have put something else in. if a gm decides to put a bomb in someones head do they really need stats? the gm just says, "hey there is a bomb in your head, do what the evil NPC says or die." so is there really a need to stat them out. the shadowrunners don't need stats for them.
how about the different lifestyles. they waste a bunch of space and you never really need to see them in game. they could just have a single "survival" cost. Pc's need to spend that much a month or die. takes less space so that more important stuff can be put there.
how about all the virtual crap in the main book. there's like 7 lines in a table and a paragraph dedicated to rules of things we all knew existed. they could have put useful stuff in there.
the reason all the items are in there is that it adds to the world of shadowrun. it is all stuff that a runner could reasonably want to waste their money on. the rules add the items to the game world and thus help shadowrun be a richer and fuller experience.
| QUOTE |
| how about a crainial bomb. what shadowrunner wants that. that wastes 4 lines in a table and a bunch of text in the main book that they could have put something else in. if a gm decides to put a bomb in someones head do they really need stats? the gm just says, "hey there is a bomb in your head, do what the evil NPC says or die." so is there really a need to stat them out. the shadowrunners don't need stats for them. |
NPCs might have them, and PCs could use them to force NPCs to do their services (we are playing a game were you are actually a hired terrorist, after all), and it's quite a difference if the cranial bomb is either single-kill, or area.
That's not the same as penile and breast implants.
That's not the same as penile and breast implants.
| QUOTE |
| how about the different lifestyles. they waste a bunch of space and you never really need to see them in game. they could just have a single "survival" cost. Pc's need to spend that much a month or die. takes less space so that more important stuff can be put there. |
There is actually a gameplay use for different lifestyles. Lesser lifestyles for example influence your healing modifiers in a negative way, while higher lifestyles improve them.
Again, unlike penile and breast implants.
Again, unlike penile and breast implants.
| QUOTE |
| how about all the virtual crap in the main book. there's like 7 lines in a table and a paragraph dedicated to rules of things we all knew existed. they could have put useful stuff in there. |
What do you mean, here? VR? Hacking stuff? That has rules and is useful for things, unlike penile and breast implants.
| QUOTE |
| the reason all the items are in there is that it adds to the world of shadowrun. it is all stuff that a runner could reasonably want to waste their money on. the rules add the items to the game world and thus help shadowrun be a richer and fuller experience. |
Then again, Augmentation is also a book with ingame info compiled by criminal characters to help other criminal characters. There are ingame benefits with rule advantages to the things you mentioned above.
Penile and breast implants don't have rule advantage (not that I would really want them to have), nor do they really affect anything at all.
Penile and breast implants don't have rule advantage (not that I would really want them to have), nor do they really affect anything at all.
| QUOTE (Particle_Beam) | ||
What do you mean, here? VR? Hacking stuff? That has rules and is useful for things, unlike penile and breast implants. |
I think he is refering to Wall Displays and Trideo Games.
It's safe, guys, I think he's gone.
And if your not, you prude, get out of my thread. I split it just so you wouldn't have to be bothered by our strange fascination with metal cocks.
It adds to the game in a few ways. For one, prostitution is a very important side of the shadows. How many source books have whole sections dedicated to bunraku parlors? Second, yes, we all know these things exist. For that exact reason, we need rules on them. They are implants that some characters will want (regardles of their use in running) and it's good to have the rules for it. The fact that breast implants cost essence is the second happiest thing this book gave me. Because it helps understand what essence loss means, what's cosmetic and what isn't. It fills in the blanks and helps us understand how augmentation fits in with the world.
So away with any doubts, and lets provide as many ways of incorporating this into our games maturely as we can!
Here's one for you. I think cyberdicks would be perfect enhancements for people who want to remain celibate. Reason? The erection is completely under your control. Lets say a person, for whatever reason, did not want to be aroused. They simply wouldn't be. I assume you could add this inhibitor without having to go the whole cyberdick route, but I'd charge the same in essence and nuyen anyway. So the Catholic priest simply gets his ability to be aroused removed surgically. The guy who is in denial about being gay can turn himself off in the shower room, and turn himself on with the wife, against his natural inclinations.
A wife could encrypt her husbands ability to acheive erection, preventing him from straying. The courts could do the same thing to a rapist, effectively castrating him for the duration of his sentence, then reactivating it when his parole is up. Being able to deny sex to a person that way would be powerful leverage. A man could get a job as a eunic in a harem, and have his dick come back online when he was outside the range of the cock-blocker code at work.
Honestly, if you can't see the character or plot potential for some of these, then you are blind.
And if your not, you prude, get out of my thread. I split it just so you wouldn't have to be bothered by our strange fascination with metal cocks.
It adds to the game in a few ways. For one, prostitution is a very important side of the shadows. How many source books have whole sections dedicated to bunraku parlors? Second, yes, we all know these things exist. For that exact reason, we need rules on them. They are implants that some characters will want (regardles of their use in running) and it's good to have the rules for it. The fact that breast implants cost essence is the second happiest thing this book gave me. Because it helps understand what essence loss means, what's cosmetic and what isn't. It fills in the blanks and helps us understand how augmentation fits in with the world.
So away with any doubts, and lets provide as many ways of incorporating this into our games maturely as we can!
Here's one for you. I think cyberdicks would be perfect enhancements for people who want to remain celibate. Reason? The erection is completely under your control. Lets say a person, for whatever reason, did not want to be aroused. They simply wouldn't be. I assume you could add this inhibitor without having to go the whole cyberdick route, but I'd charge the same in essence and nuyen anyway. So the Catholic priest simply gets his ability to be aroused removed surgically. The guy who is in denial about being gay can turn himself off in the shower room, and turn himself on with the wife, against his natural inclinations.
A wife could encrypt her husbands ability to acheive erection, preventing him from straying. The courts could do the same thing to a rapist, effectively castrating him for the duration of his sentence, then reactivating it when his parole is up. Being able to deny sex to a person that way would be powerful leverage. A man could get a job as a eunic in a harem, and have his dick come back online when he was outside the range of the cock-blocker code at work.
Honestly, if you can't see the character or plot potential for some of these, then you are blind.
Sure, I see and even like your ideas, I'm just questioning why anyone needed actual cyberdick rules to run them.
Although you do have an excellent point about the various Essense costs being telling, I would have never ruled that getting a new face or undergoing a sex-change would cost Essense.
---
Although you do have a problem with your second idea, it really shouldn't be that hard to hack into your cyberdick and bypass any ED codes that are in place, so I think in the case of a rapist, it would be much simpler to physically castrate him and then let him worry about paying for a cyberdick after his parole was up.
Man, checking the terms of that parole would be a hell of a job to give to somebody.
Although you do have an excellent point about the various Essense costs being telling, I would have never ruled that getting a new face or undergoing a sex-change would cost Essense.
---
Although you do have a problem with your second idea, it really shouldn't be that hard to hack into your cyberdick and bypass any ED codes that are in place, so I think in the case of a rapist, it would be much simpler to physically castrate him and then let him worry about paying for a cyberdick after his parole was up.
Man, checking the terms of that parole would be a hell of a job to give to somebody.
| QUOTE |
| It's safe, guys, I think he's gone. And if your not, you prude, get out of my thread. I split it just so you wouldn't have to be bothered by our strange fascination with metal cocks. |
This is an Admin post: Threads are not owned by the original poster. While it is a thread-starter's job to set out the initial discussion, it is not appropriate to ask someone not to post in the thread simply because you disagree; nor is it polite to say things like "It's safe, guys, I think he's gone." when he's obviously fully capable of reading the thread.
I see nothing objectionable in this thread or in Doctor Funkenstein behavior; if you disagree, please PM me or one of the other administrators, but don't try to self-administrate.
Please don't ignore my final comment in regards to everything I post.
I've played the full range of sex in games and, apart from my adolescence, I can say that it has, ironically, very little place in adult gaming. I've never had a problem with a sexual overtone in parts of a game, I've intentionally had sexual encounters in game and they were handled maturely. I've picked up prostitutes and had one night stands with gods. Typically they are handled as such:
"I ask if she is available for the night, the GM says 'yes and this is the cost.' After that she returns with me to my room."
End of story. No need to go into the color of her nipples or how her underwear tastes.
One campaign we had a character that had an addiction to sex. She was a mage, and if she didn't have sex several times a day her power wained. The available characters simply took turns sleeping with her to cover her need. Nothing more than that.
I've also had GMs that insisted on being very detailed with sexual encounters. For some reason I just don't enjoy when my cheetoed fingered GM describes what the tavern wench is doing to my character, expecting me to interact with him.
I'm there for a gaming experience, not a sexual fantasy. Most of my friends I would not want to ever share a sexual fantasy with. We just aren't those kind of friends.
For all practical purposes, I can't see why extensive detail would be required for sexuality in any normal game setting. I wouldn't see a problem with basic descriptions; a cybernetic penis, a face with breasts that can change size, etc. Anything more is immature and unnecessary. What purpose does a rating 5 piston action dual headed cyber-penis have to do with game play? If you are using body cavities for smuggling purposes, a body compartment would be far more practical than multiple 'cyber vaginas'
If a player wants some sort of cybernetic sexual modification, as a GM, I'd sign off on it. I'd probably be very lenient as to its costs as well. Decide together a reasonable cost in cash and essence and write it off like that.
As for arousal and rapists, etc. the penis has very little to do with either, and replacing it with a cybernetic counterpart that is incapable of such acts would do little to solve the problem. It would take excessive invasive surgery to prevent a person from becoming aroused. Or drugs. An erect penis is a result of arousal, not the other way around (yes, I realize that sensations applied to an erect organ will increase arousal...)
As far as it being adding to the immersion of game play because they are aspects that would exist in reality, I disagree. As mentioned before, so is going to the bathroom. Do you ensure your players take time out of their runs to eat 3 square meals or suffer decreased stats from malnutrition or fatigue? When your face is dining with the head of a mega corp, does she fail if she doesn't state exactly what fork she is picking up? All these things are covered in flavor text. And for 90% of sexuality, flavor text is all that should be required.
I've played the full range of sex in games and, apart from my adolescence, I can say that it has, ironically, very little place in adult gaming. I've never had a problem with a sexual overtone in parts of a game, I've intentionally had sexual encounters in game and they were handled maturely. I've picked up prostitutes and had one night stands with gods. Typically they are handled as such:
"I ask if she is available for the night, the GM says 'yes and this is the cost.' After that she returns with me to my room."
End of story. No need to go into the color of her nipples or how her underwear tastes.
One campaign we had a character that had an addiction to sex. She was a mage, and if she didn't have sex several times a day her power wained. The available characters simply took turns sleeping with her to cover her need. Nothing more than that.
I've also had GMs that insisted on being very detailed with sexual encounters. For some reason I just don't enjoy when my cheetoed fingered GM describes what the tavern wench is doing to my character, expecting me to interact with him.
I'm there for a gaming experience, not a sexual fantasy. Most of my friends I would not want to ever share a sexual fantasy with. We just aren't those kind of friends.
For all practical purposes, I can't see why extensive detail would be required for sexuality in any normal game setting. I wouldn't see a problem with basic descriptions; a cybernetic penis, a face with breasts that can change size, etc. Anything more is immature and unnecessary. What purpose does a rating 5 piston action dual headed cyber-penis have to do with game play? If you are using body cavities for smuggling purposes, a body compartment would be far more practical than multiple 'cyber vaginas'
If a player wants some sort of cybernetic sexual modification, as a GM, I'd sign off on it. I'd probably be very lenient as to its costs as well. Decide together a reasonable cost in cash and essence and write it off like that.
As for arousal and rapists, etc. the penis has very little to do with either, and replacing it with a cybernetic counterpart that is incapable of such acts would do little to solve the problem. It would take excessive invasive surgery to prevent a person from becoming aroused. Or drugs. An erect penis is a result of arousal, not the other way around (yes, I realize that sensations applied to an erect organ will increase arousal...)
As far as it being adding to the immersion of game play because they are aspects that would exist in reality, I disagree. As mentioned before, so is going to the bathroom. Do you ensure your players take time out of their runs to eat 3 square meals or suffer decreased stats from malnutrition or fatigue? When your face is dining with the head of a mega corp, does she fail if she doesn't state exactly what fork she is picking up? All these things are covered in flavor text. And for 90% of sexuality, flavor text is all that should be required.
| QUOTE |
| Honestly, if you can't see the character or plot potential for some of these, then you are blind. |
There are far better ways about designing a sexually based character. My wife wants to build a courtesan for her first Shadowrun experience. Most likely she will end up being the face in the group. The character will be highly designed around sex and seduction, but her focus will remain shadowrunning and the game experience, not verbal details of sexual encounters.
Final comment: These are my opinions. If people want to play games with characters that are capable of drilling holes in their opponents with their crotches or chopping off appendages that are inserted into certain orifices I'm not going to say they can't. I will express my opinion that it is a little immature. As for this thread, I thought the purpose of it was to discuss sexually based cyberware in shadowrun. For those that want to say "your immature, don't talk about sex-ware, I'd never have it in my game" Those people are posting in the wrong thread. Let people discuss their sex ware. Its their thing.
Please don't attack my contradictions. I realize I said not to tell people their thread is immature after saying I think its immature. Let em discuss it. Its their thing. I just wanted to add my opinion. And, its only that. Its my opinion. Please let me have it.
holy crap this ended up a lot longer post than I expected...
footnote:
Neutering/replacing with a cyber cock/etc. typically will do little to a rapist to effect their behavior, but thats a topic for another thread. Simply removing a serial rapists penis would do little to effect their behavior
Neutering/replacing with a cyber cock/etc. typically will do little to a rapist to effect their behavior, but thats a topic for another thread. Simply removing a serial rapists penis would do little to effect their behavior
Yeah I know, but it seemed like a proper over-the-top cyberpunk punishment.
Actually, I imagine an over-the-top cyberpunk punishment would be the installation of a permanently implanted simchip to alter their personalities completely. Perhaps linked to a kink bomb or other punishment device in case they find away around it or try to have it removed. Implanted nearly as easily as a datajack and less of a chance of having metahuman rights activists going crazy. Well, less than having someone's genitalia lopped off.
Mutilation is more of a Middle Eastern/Third World sort of punishment. Behavior correction is more "civilized."
Mutilation is more of a Middle Eastern/Third World sort of punishment. Behavior correction is more "civilized."
As long as the bomb was implanted at the base of the offender's "member".
The common misconception about sexual offenders is that the problem stems from their genitals. A pedophile will still be a pedophile if his penis is removed and continue to molest children if given the chance.
The good doctor is correct in stating that the appropriate fix for such individuals is a complete personality rebuild.
If you want to discuss character ideas, this is honestly a brilliant one to play out. Imagine the reaction of the player when the find that their physical adept is a rehabilitated sex offender that was reprogrammed and what they believed their past was is actually all a figment? This could be done by the player when they create the character, or done by the GM as part of an adventure the character discovers their past and must come to terms with it.
Yes, the idea came to me and was stolen completely from the Babylon 5 episode "Passing Through Gethsemane" You should check it out.
The good doctor is correct in stating that the appropriate fix for such individuals is a complete personality rebuild.
If you want to discuss character ideas, this is honestly a brilliant one to play out. Imagine the reaction of the player when the find that their physical adept is a rehabilitated sex offender that was reprogrammed and what they believed their past was is actually all a figment? This could be done by the player when they create the character, or done by the GM as part of an adventure the character discovers their past and must come to terms with it.
Yes, the idea came to me and was stolen completely from the Babylon 5 episode "Passing Through Gethsemane" You should check it out.
| QUOTE (Ranneko) | ||
Actually the black box text on page 54 about Evo intrigues me more. I really want to make a gender shifting face. Having what ever gender suits hir mood or the situation. |
ah, always fun
that was one of the option in CPv3 i wanted to play around with at some point (their version being retroviral dna based or something like that).
One thing thats being missed from way back a few years here on the board. The Implant is not just restricted to a cyber torse.
Now we can have that specialized cyber arm some talked about way back.
or you could really be captain peg leg.
Now we can have that specialized cyber arm some talked about way back.
or you could really be captain peg leg.
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
| [...] They are implants that some characters will want (regardles of their use in running) and it's good to have the rules for it. The fact that breast implants cost essence is the second happiest thing this book gave me. Because it helps understand what essence loss means, what's cosmetic and what isn't. It fills in the blanks and helps us understand how augmentation fits in with the world. [...] |
Yepp...
If you just want your breasts increase from B to C (or whatever), it is sufficient to just visit your Doc, get some Silicone (or whatever...
) inserted and it is just fine... job done, usually no Essence costs.But if you want those shiny cyber-breasts who could be made to grow or shrink by mere thought-control... well, that costs at least a little bit of Essence...
Greetings,
Nyx
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
Yeah, but now he can have a canon cannon. |
Nice one!
@PlatonicPimp: Those are interesting starting points for shadowruns. Would certainly add a little more depth to the world than "there's a new type of optical chip and we must have it.
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
| A woman who's fluids dosed her male partner with SR4 Viagra could keep hiim up all night long. And an unscrupulous predator might lace their juices with something addictive, so that you HAD to keep coming back for more sex. |
*ahems*
Now.
Did we, or did we not, cover vaginal... juices?
Anyone?
Eroticism is a major element in a lot of the cyberpunk fiction. Neuromancer, Hardwired, that one where the guy runs for president...sex and cyberpunk have always been paired.
A theme of science fiction is how technologies change us and our societies, so these implants have to be included in a game that takes bioethics by the horns like this one does.
And I say with certainty that these implants are not going to permit puerile humor to suddenly run rampant where it has never run before. My SR campaigns had dick jokes long before Augmentation.
A theme of science fiction is how technologies change us and our societies, so these implants have to be included in a game that takes bioethics by the horns like this one does.
And I say with certainty that these implants are not going to permit puerile humor to suddenly run rampant where it has never run before. My SR campaigns had dick jokes long before Augmentation.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.