I was thinking something like 15s (ap/2)-4 which gives a maximum unaugmented max of 4 dice to armor value. in anything less than a full sec suit with a riot shield the target is pretty well hosed. now add in annoyances like bone lacing and mystic armor and tolerances go higher , still with 15 boxes of stun, most anything is going down.

And with overflow how often will they be DEAD?

its a stun wep, sure they might suffer some surface burns, or at worst possible a heart attack, but I am sure defibrillation is passe'

What do you need these for? What role do they fill in a campaign world that regular stun weapons don't? Why would anyone still use regular stun weapons? Does the game really need automatic one-shot-KO stuff that badly?

No thanks.

Existing stun weapons are extremely scary for even a moderately competent user. So much so that I've seen builds where they're used exclusively, with a knife on hand to stab them afterwards if a more final solution is desired.

I think they're good. Let's leave them alone.

This has a better expected physical damage than most close combat weapons, especially if you don´t have extreme strength.

Broken. Stun weapons are too good already. 8S damage is nasty and far more effective than anything but elephant rifles (with XX) or HMGs.

I'm not sure if it's included in SR4, but there is the insta-coronary stunstick, the AZ-150. I see no reason why it won't appear in Arsenal.

Holy drek, it just occurred to me. What happens if you fire stick-n-shock ammo from burst fire? I guess I'm going to have to assume that it just adds to the DV per usual burst rules rather than adding cumulative stun damage.

Still a long, narrow burst of stick-n-shock ammo has the potential to do 11S before hits are factored in. On a gas vent 3 weapon, with a stock that shot is made at a -1.

regular bullets don't do separate damage in a burst; i dont see why shock weapons should.

Yes, it does just add to the DV, which is why I've always advocated stick and shock in machine pistols for a decent balance of firepower and concealment. Another fun thing to do is to load up two streetline specials with stick and shock and carry them in hidden arm slides/concealable holsters as a trump card. Stealthiest firearm available short of cyberguns and the raecor sting, yet you still get to pack a 6DV w/ AP and disorientation bonuses. The trick is not to fire them at the same time, but rather to fire one and then the other, handily bypassing the dicepool splitting AND the single shot nature of the firearm at the cost of a mild dicepool penalty to the offhand (and if you have ambidexterity that's no problem either). A couple of Defiance EX shockers is fun too.

Anyway though, if you really want a super effective but non-lethal stunrod, upping the DV isn't the answer. You'd be better served by modifying the threshold and duration of the incapacitation effect inflicted by electrical damage. Boosting the Will+Body test threshold from a 3 up to 5 or 6 would make it an incredibly hard test to make for anything short of a troll tank with appropriate armor mods to make. Frankly though, were I to GM I'd never let such a weapon within a city block of my table.

This is roughly as overpowered as a troll with a bow.

...interesting, because the Hammerli is what Violet (#61) primarily uses for S&S as well. Yeah the small clip is the only weakness but the improved range & built in Smartlink (a steal for the price) makes up for it. Especially nice when you are the first one into a building because you had to spring the maglock.

She usually loads her Fabuki with EXEX for if she has to pull that, it means things are just got hairy; 8DV -1 AP, pretty rockin'.

...sweet kid.

Is the Sakura Fubuki really a 4 round burst? I don't remember seeing that mentioned in the rules (yeah it has 4 barels, but I assumed that that was just some weirdness on the devs' parts) I assumed it had regular short burst lengths.

Edit: Oh, and to be on topic, this does seem a little overpowered. Defiance EX will take lots of stuff down, and or leave them majorly hurting. Anyone else notice that in its description it mentions contacts for meele combat, but is cheaper than the Stun Baton? (less than 1/2 price and better damage). KK: The Defiance EX Shocker is the taser that does 8S(e) -1/2.

Edit2: @Tarantula, I don't think its quite as overpowered as a Troll with a bow, augmented strength, injection arrows, narcoject, and DMSO (yeah its not out yet, but I'm eagerly expecting Arsenal.) This combination can easily yeild: 15P + 10S(Toxin), sure they get their full armor --- against the physical damage. Of course it does cost something like 100 per round, but I expect you'll only need one.

That's kinda what I thought. (tho I thought that perhaps it could use its vaunted electronic firing to fire 3 barrels at once, but I realized that it didn't really matter) Anyone who thought it fired 4 round bursts, I'd like to hear why you thought (or think) so.

I personally don't like "Stick-n-shock" ammunition... Tiny Holdout bullets that have the same capacity to deliver electricity damage as a dedicated-by-design taser dart?

I am happy that none of my players have asked to purchase these rounds, but if they did I think I'd make them do a base damage of 1 less damage box than the original round but with electricity damage and armor as given.

YMMV ::shrugs::

Arashi

it does specify *short* bursts though, which are 3 round.

no indication is made that all bullets would be from one barrel or from 3 separate barrels.

...basically that was where we were a bit confused at first & determined by it's configuration, that it must fire 4 rounds simultaneously, 1 from each of the stacked barrels (hence why you cannot do a wide burst with it).

Most of the RL metalstorm concepts I've seen employ a single barrel. If the Fabuki fired all the rounds for a burst from one barrel, there would be little little advantage gained from it's design. It would then do just as well to be a slightly beefier version version of something like the Fichetti Security but with the burst fire capability.

I think this topic came up a while back...

AH? Frank? Synner? Raygun? any thoughts on this?

well, i'm out of here... no way am i sitting through DSF gun thread =P

To make it make a little sense from the perspective of having 4 barrels I believe I am going to go with it fires a round from each barrel in succession using the discharge from the previous barrel to jack the rounds from the previous barrel forward into the firing position. Using that mechanism to kill the recoil from each bullet and the time it take for this action is enough that it is necessary to have four barrels firing in succession instead of three.


*I would like to note that I know almost nothing about how anything but the absolute most basic parts of guns function so this is probably WILDLY improbable. I could completely pull it over on my group though, so until someone gives me a good explanation I'll go with mine.

Chris

...Fabuki topic moved to new thread