So, I've been running my first non-Seattle campaign in a long while. We've been working (with a merry-go round rotating group lately) based in Tampa. And I'm starting to realize, that my lack of ever living somewhere so warm and my long time love of Seattle as a setting has left me lacking in some things as a GM. What changes when you're dealing with the warmer climates?

For example: When you're running in the rainy hell that is Touristville, it's easy enough to know that concealable holster and Predator doesn't register too much underneath your trenchcoat.

But all that changes in the drastic differences found in a place like Tampa or Miami, both in terms of clothing/fashion and climate. I mean, who's wearing a trenchcoat as often as you might in Seattle?

What I'm asking, is what other little quirks am I missing, having moved the game to a warmer clime? What else would be different for runners, their usual habits, attire, etc.?

I'd get some inspiration from series and movies from warmer climates. Miami Vice (the good 'ol stuff), CSI Miami... gangster movies from LA.

That trenchcoat might be replaced with a suit or just a thinner kind of coat. Or maybe you'll want people to notice your bulge.

That said you'd be surprised how much people from warmer climates may dress. I for one could never wear a leather jacket or even a full suit all buttoned up in 30 degrees celcius, but some people do. Still there will be more loose clothing, sandals, bare-chested people etc. when it's hot. And people will still be packing.

Sure. And I've looked at some of those sources already. The clothing thing seems to be covered well in our game already. And it is CAS afterall (at least in Tampa), so packing is sort of expected.

What I'm wondering is, what else am I missing outside of clothing? I've never lived anywhere near that warm, so I'm not sure of the little things that make life, well, life there. I'm imagining more outdoor meetings, due to more outdoor cafes/decks/etc. But that also offers up a whole new host of problems for runners (open sight lines, far less secure, easier for surveillance, etc.)

During the summer in FL, it's too hot to be outside. Myths of habitation before the invention of air conditioning have yet to be confirmed.

For an excellent take on life in Florida, and all the fun it can mean to less than licit dealings, check out Burn Notice. Hell, check it out because it's fun to watch and has Bruce Campbell

One thing I will say, having lived a few summers in Florida and Georgia, and being Canadian in the 'raised in ice and snow' sense, the climate is muggier; you can feel the water being sucked right out of you some days it gets so hot. One implication that has for SR-type situations is that Rent-a-Cops get really hot, too, so they get distracted or tired.

Keep in mind, too, that clothing has become high-tech in the 2070's. Read over the first couple of paragraphs of the Clothing And Armor section in the gear chapter. It's not hard to imagine that in the South some minor climate control devices are incorporated into your gear, especially since they're powered by solar energy as per those rules. Combined with the stylish types of armor you can buy in Arsenal, several of which include concealable holsters and the like even without a trench coat, and having runners running around in a nice suit or other formal wear won't be that unusual or intolerable.

But yeah, trying to keep a Colt Manhunter hidden from view when you're walking along the beach is going to be tricky. In reality, though, it's not all that different from similar situations in Seattle. There's quite a few places where bringing a weapon is a bad idea. The only difference is the latter relies more heavily on scanners rather than the naked eye. The end result is the same, though.

I have either lived in or been to 3 places where the weather is hot.

1) Singapore - I live here. Most people do not wear a coat, a jacket or any kind of over-covering due to the humidity and heat. There are days when people do wear them but it is more during the monsoon season and it has been raining the entire day.

2) Thailand - Hot and sticky. When I was there, in the interior of the country, it was hot and humid. No rain to cool things down either. Most of the guys were wearing light clothing, the only exception were the guys on duty who had to wear the uniform. The heat simply sapped our energies, we felt pooped even with skeleton gear on.

3) Australia - Hot but dry. The temperature was supposed to be hot, 30+ celcius. But due to the dryness of the weather, most of us didn't feel it. Walking around in full gear (for me was quite a bit given I was an GPMG gunner) felt fine.

Living in Florida
You'll see less ties on business workers. Not typically a requirement as much as it is further north due to the heat.
Insects. black and red ants, bees, wasps, mosquitoes, houseflies and so on.
Anoles are everywhere. They look like little gekkos but they aren't. They live near bushes mostly.
There is no snow. There is never snow except the northern edge. There is rain instead. Hard rain and hurricanes.
Bring your sunglasses.
If you're a runner, you'd best know Spanish too.
Currently, Florida is a stand your ground state. If you can prove you felt threatened for your life, you can kill someone. This has probably changed in the 60 years between now and then, but it gives you an idea.
Chromed cyberware is going to suck. It's going to heat up like bitch in that dead heat and get covered in condensation when you go inside.
If there's a swampy lake, there's probably a gator in it.
Sweating, yeah!

So how does this change things on the security side? I'd imagine that if you've got covert bodyguards (or at least discreet, rather than a full-on corporate security team), you've got to change the gear they're using much like the runners do. I realize CAS is less restrictive on firearms laws than Seattle, but I'm almost imagining you're going to see less emphasis on the bulkier heavy pistols. Also, I'd imagine that concealable melee weapons would be a bit more common. Bioware being more common, due to the issues with cyber (as mentioned) fit in well with the version of Tampa I've been using.

You can also try and figure out what happens when salt water gets in a datajack the first time the hacker goes for a swim at the beach.

The last time we discussed this here the theory seemed to be that commonly clothes would have effective enough climate control that heat wouldn't matter.

Except for the whole suspicion thing. Walking around a cold, wet climate like Seattle in a trench coat is perfectly reasonable. If you wear one in Tampa, it screams "what are you trying to hide?"

Yeah, that's been a big issue with my own players. They're accustomed to Seattle (and most of us have lived in temperate or colder climes, mostly Northeastern Seaboard), so I've been trying to get some more input to offer in that regard. That trenchcoat allowed for all sorts of fun things to be hidden. However, even with climate control on clothes...I mean, why would you be wearing what's effectively cold weather clothing in such a tropical environment? It seems like it would run pretty counter to the prevailing fashions/clothing in that climate. Even with the climate control capabilities, a large number of people would have to switch for an extended period of time to make that "acceptable" fashion that wouldn't set off some mental alarms.

If your shadowrun is as crazy insane dangerous as the RAW one then people walk around in armored clothing all the time. If you assume that biker gangs can't stage robberies on interstates in the middle of town every night and you don't have a street gang made up of certifiable crazy people who run around with flamethrowers in the middle of AA rated security zones then people will not be so concerned about armor.

Arsenal pg. 46. Globerotter line have designed clothes for all temperatures and enviroments.
for concealement: Synergist business line. -2 concealement for suit jacket and longcoat
(longcoat adds additional -2 concealement in items hidden underneath so -4 to concealement)

I've run a Miami-based campaign once. High dodge skill and good unarmed combat skill turned out to be very helpful, as did knife fighting. Hiding weapons larger than a knife was hardly possible under thin Miami Vice-style suits. Gives a very good reason to finally get that cybergun implant, right?

Hmm well culture, people being hot-headed, etc. Just think about security guards with guns and cheap armor... hot and dangerous.

Read House of the Sun, by Nigel Findley. Not only is it a great book in its own right, but the book takes place in Hawaii. The author covers this topic quite nicely.

My group's interests are relevant to yours. The group just got hired by Kingdom of Hawai'i law enforcement and we're planning on staying there a while after this run is over. The GM along with a couple of the players grew up there, so we have a wealth of amusing details to add.

One major detail is tourism. Smiling receptionist ladies in buildings, possibly information kiosks. Stores everywhere that sell cheap junk. Nice splashes of green, real or fake, added to buildings and sidewalks. Give the location an ethnic flavor based on its real world census numbers. Douse them in the occasional unexpected rainstorm. Of course, this is in the nice parts of town; corporate neighborhoods and strip malls and such.

EDIT: And as a quick note, I get the impression from some of the little stories in the SR4A book that it's pretty common to walk around armed with a light pistol, holdout, taser, knife, or (small) cyberweapon.

Yeah you definatly need to read the book. The author once commented that it was his favorite character in his favorite location. Findley spent quite a bit of time covering many details of the kingdom of Hawaii in the 6th world. The information that can be extracted for the novel would fill a sourcebook.

For example the main characters native guide explains that the second most common enhancement on the islands is Dermal Armor. The first? Sunscreen bioware. Yup, choose your SPF and never worry about burning again.

That's totally awesome. Bio-SPF 25. There was way more right about the Paradise Lost sourcebook than wrong, with one of the most amusing wrongs being that they figured out a long and cumbersome way to say "magic" in Hawaiian when really the Hawaiian word for magic is MANA.

Most of the local flavor in the runs we're doing are going to come from knowledge we gained from growing up in Honolulu. Hotels, malls, what certain areas are known for. Our first run is going to involve assassinating someone who's claimed royal lineage and taken up residence in a small, old, castle-looking thing called 'Iolani Palace, which has been kept totally unchanged since the 19th century as a historical site.

A few other things that people forget.

1) When people get hot, they get mean and nasty and their tempers raise and their patience levels lower. I grew up in the south and nothing worse than tension+A hot day. It's a quick way to get hurt. That's before you add in metahumanity, pollution, corp guards, private police force, over population and such.

2) Heat+Metahumanity= smell. Boy... smell. People reek when it's hot and humid and you can smell um. And not just right up on um. You can smell some people at 10.. 20 feet. You get a troll, with that extra weight, the extra mass, the body type, dermal deposits, size of their sweat areas. then you deck him out in hot combat armor... gear, weapons... and you're going to smell him a block off. And it's not just the trolls. The elves won't smell like roses either. So, you've got metahumanity+heat+Gear+High stress= big smell. Add in heightened senses, cyber sniffers and oh goddess please help us, parabiologicals like hell hounds or something patrolling and smell is a big deal. There's ways around it but it's not easy. Temps can be in the 80s at NIGHT in the south, and humidity up over 90% for months. Seems like a little thing but if a guard is walking his patrol and he smells your sweatin' rear. You're blown. if a hell hound smells you from a mile off. You're blown. If some guy with a cybernose records your smell, it's likely can be used aginst you later. ect

A trench coat with climate control is perfectly reasonable in a warm, wet climate. Seattle isn't really all that cold, either; it rarely drops below freezing. The do sometimes get frosts in Florida, so people (especially poorer people) would probably own one coat that is good against acid rain, moderate cold, and hot weather. The full coverage of a trench coat would also make it's cooling systems more effective, and also protects against bugs. Plus you have to remember how cold a the AC is in a lot of buildings; people in some office buildings need to keep sweaters at work! You might also have situations like in LA, where (non-poor) people don't really spend any time outside when its hot; they just go door to door in vehicles.

I suspect its only the poor and fashionable who would be showing a lot of skin, or concerned about how thick their clothing was.

If your body doesn't get hot, it doesn't sweat. If it does, there's Clean Metabolism bioware and (I'd bet a big seller) anti-persperant (or, more precisely, anti-odor) nanites. Hell, I own a few sets of sock treated with silver nanoparticles to prevent odors.

There's also Scent-Masking Cigarettes from Arsenal. 10¥ a pop, though I don't know if that's per pack or per cigarette. Probably per cigarette.

You've clearly never lived though a southern summer if you think 'if your body doesn't get hot, it doesn't sweat' In shorts and a tee shirt you'll break a sweat walking to the mailbox or your car. Not to mention your car is over 100 degrees. And the humidity makes it feel like you're walking though soup.

Add in ---any--- sort of combat gear and load outs, weapons and stuff and it's multiplied by 5. That stuff's heavy and you'll be sweating hard just walking around. Smartclothes no doubt help but not enough to mitigate a few 100lbs of metahuman in combat gear exerting himself. And those lil mini air conditioners are going to make noise. And if you're humming and buzzing from the fans and AC built into your clothes, they're going to hear you. And even then. People in arctic conditions have to be careful when fighting and stuff, because you SWEAT. ANd in Arctic conditions after you're done fighting and sweating you might over cool and freeze. Now that's not a danger in hot climates, but the fact is it's going to happen. Antiperspirant only goes so far. Ask any athlete. And yeah I've seen the socks. They work for walking around, but not full out combat missions and stuff, nor for long.

There ARE ways around it, but in the hotter climates it's alot harder.

Just tuck it down the front of your Speedo.

Gives a whole new meaning to 'packing heat'.

http://www.smartcarry.com/images/smartcarrygirl.jpg

It's perfectly possible to carry a decent sized gun wearing just shorts. With a suit coat over it you can carry shotguns (For example, the US Marshal's service "Witness protection" shotguns), SMGs, even short barreled assault rifles like the krinkov. It's trivial to carry a full sized pistol under a suit coat. You just have to not be stupid and know how to dress and move appropriately.

Probably nothing. Most datajacks will just be used as a DNI that's then linked to wireless, but even if you want a hardwired connection, there's no reason for a datajack to be more than a small (possibly subdermal) plate that holds the line to itself by a magnet. The old style of plugging something in is as antiquated as cyberdecks.

This is true. Hard to pull it off in a hot tub, but shy of that you can conceal medium to light pistols with out too much trouble. People trained to spot concealed weapons are going to look at you if you have on a wind breaker and shorts, or if you have a trench coat and fedora.

I moved down to Phoenix from Chicago, so here are some observations:

1) we have our own special sickness: valley fever

2) car tires last maybe two years

3) car batteries last maybe two years

4) loose rocks on the freeways damage your windshield (this is more of a desert thing)

5) I keep my house around 80 degrees year round now, so I freeze at GEN CON. I actually bring a jacket with me.

6) conceal carry is just different; you can find holsters and fanny packs to conceal full size guns

7) summer is typically around 112 degrees all day and all evening, so you're not doing any serious running outside. Hot days are over 120 degrees. Now, we do get humidity during monsoon season, but most of the time it feels like someone is blowing a hair dryer at you. Oh, we go whole months with no overcast or rain.

8 ) it's so hot that you don't notice your sweating, so you check your hands to see if they're inflamed to know if your dehydrated; basically, your hands get puffy

9) I drink over a gallon of water a day

10) restaurants are required to give you tap water for free if you ask

11) people are generally in better shape, but it's really economic. Folks that make good money go to the gym. People will also spend more time outdoors.

12) houses have about 5-6' feet stone walls around their backyards, rather than chain link fence

13) sandals are pretty common in the summer months

14) business casual in the summer also means you can wear shorts; you only see people wearing suits for interviews

15) desert landscaping is pretty common; most people have rock based landscaping with desert plants. We use drip systems.

16) rattlesnakes and scorpions do get into your house; scorpions are more common by new housing developments; snakes are more common by mountain areas

17) our roads are in better shape, and people drive faster. When there is no traffic, I drive around 70-80 miles per hour, and this is going with the flow of traffic.

If you have any questions, let me know.

I mean, I understand from a logical viewpoint how this can work. But I guess I just have a hard time reconciling that with both the fashion and culture of Central/Southern Florida (especially a Gulf city like Tampa). Also, if the players can simply dress like in Seattle...I don't know, it really seems to take quite a bit of fun style (and challenges) out of the setting. The city/setting really needs to be a character in the game itself for me and mine, so for style's sake (even if logic or RAW may disagree) I'm not sure I want to make it quite that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit? That's the first I've heard that mentioned in the thread, and my players and myself don't number among common gun users/owners. So personal experience in that regard is lacking quite a bit. I mean, some of the heavy pistols in SR4 art look really damn big.

Well yeah. That's because your body IS getting hot. Temp over 90 means you have to sweat. High humidity means sweating doesn't work. Solution is to reduce temp via environment control, or cold surfaces in contact. Which is exactly what I'm saying the right clothing technology could do.

I worked as a package handler at the FedEx plant in Nashville TN from May to Nov in 2008. Oh, and rode my bike to work 10 miles each way. I know a bit about avoiding raising my core temp in 100+ F heat; only "good" thing was the humidity was a "mere" 70% most days.
Of course, I did that by drinking close to a gallon of water per shift, and sweating buckets. But if I had had the tech to wear a nicely cooled body suit, that would easily have done the job. In fact, I often soaked my shirt and shorts and tossed them in the fridge, then took them to work in a cooler to change into mid-shift. Worked great, no sweating... for maybe an hour, tops.

I'm not just making this shit up- the US military has done research on under-armor cooling systems and other personal cooling / heating systems. They work great, but are currently (afaik) the sort of thing you'd need to support with a rather bulky machine. Still seems a good idea- they could build the support system into the Hummers. Of course, seeing how they had to stretch to provide armor in the first place....

Yeah the tech is getting close. And by the 2070s it'd probably be much more viable. But you still fall back to even in a full environmental suit you're still exerting yourself carrying around your gear, running, jumping, diving, shooting climbing stealthing. You sweat in subzero temps if you're balls to the wall active.

It's not a huge deal 'in game'. It's assumed unless you're caught in the desert that you can get water and stay hydrated, ect.

My point was that even with personal AC in your clothes. You're still going to sweat when you're active and running.

And once you sweat, you're easy to detect.

You can mitigate it. You can minimalize it, but with out bio mods (( dangerous ones at that. you sweat fora reason after all)) you're not getting away from it.

If you haven't seen someone take off a jacket or their Hawaiian shirt and only then notice the Glock 17 or other large gun you probably won't realize how effectively someone can make a big handgun vanish. An appropriate good holster, possibly some minor tailoring, and awareness about what they are doing can really work well. Plus people are typically not looking.

If it's effectively done you won't see the gun unless they choose to show it to you. Police detectives, FBI agents, etc are often pretty good at this. It's one of the things they have to learn to do.

For shotguns, see Shotgun Shoulder Holster What they show is a pretty good sized shotgun, it might be an old remington WitSec one, but if you use a smaller shotgun it will clearly fit under a suit coat.

And there are some stupidly huge guns in the illustrations. There are a limited number of people who can convincingly draw an imaginary gun and some of the illustrators are not them.

picture of that Super Shorty remind me a short-barreled version of Defiance T-250 (Arsenal pg. 28)..very nice indeed..

There's already some way aroun that. check wiipedia for thermoelectric cooling (basically a plate that transfers heat from on side to the other when fed electricity). Add 60 years of technological progress and odds are they will be effective enough to be integrated into clothing. A nice touch woudl that a solar-energy powered system is that the harder the suns, the mroe power you get into the system and the more heat you can take out.
The big drawback from a shadowrunner's side is that your infrared signature will suck. Adn depending on the materials used, odds are your radar signature will too unless specialy designed.

And you're adding more weight and delicate electronics to your clothes for the soul purpose of trying to keep cool, which is nice (( I'd love it seriously. I HATE heat)) But you're adding metal all over your body? More metal to carry around. More weight. More energy exerted. Then you start exercising, then yup, you're heating up, You're now hotter than the metal you're carrying around can wick away from your body and you're sweating inside your suit, which yes has to transfer that heat some where so you're radiating out like a light bulb to any heat sensors, and you're back around to being noticed. lol

http://www.andrewsleather.com/juan_a.jpg

Lol- what's the point of a concealed carry when you have a cop-stache, comb over, and oversized mirror shades? Might as well just wear the uniform and be done with it.

Nice holsters though. Even the smaller ones have heirloom level craftsmanship, at good prices.

Moved from Omaha to Las Vegas from 1993-2000. Inspired by tweak.

1. Mmmm, smog. Some days the elderly are told to stay inside.

2. Deserts eat cars. Add radiators to the list of item needing to be replaced.

3. So hot in the summer that every year clever newscasters fry eggs on sidewalks, cook full turkeys in their closed up cars, etc. Plastic porta-poties start to warp and lean. Laws to punish those that waste water, except the huge Corp campuses with private wells that spew water on their expansive lawns during mid-day.

4.The streets get so hot, children can't go barefoot.

5. The houses, even in poor areas have walls around the back yard. The poorest people live in trailer parks. Homeless live in the storm sewers, and some drown each time it rains hard.

6. On the other hand, there are not enough storm sewers, so some roads flood each time it rains hard, and people often drown while trying to cross them. To warn people away from flooded streets, the city puts up barricades and orange cones, but they mostly get washed away.

7. In Las Vegas, at the time I was there, any type of outfit you can image was fair game. From full suits to see through mesh dresses. Women at the grocery store without under-panties. Cowboys. Metro (the cops) everywhere.

8. Officer involved shootings 3-4 times a week. SWAT shot a guy that was threatening a store clerk with a fingernail clipper. Cops convicted of doing drive-by shootings while off-duty.

9. When I saw a big scorpion walking across my living room floor I nearly pee'd. Paranormal pests might require a cyber bladder.

As kzt already answered it's all in the holster and how you dress. I personally carry a full-frame pistol with a double-stacked magazine concealed and I've been noticed twice that I'm aware of. Once by an off-duty cop and once by a K9 unit which smelled propellant and gun oil. For reference this is my carry piece with dimensions.

I live in a part of the mid-west which gets nearly as hot and humid as Tampa for a couple months. My summer carry dress is shorts or light jeans with a basic t-shirt under a cover garment. Depending on where I'm going that cover garment is either a loose waist polo style or a Hawaiian shirt. Bold, randomized patterns are common for carry because they break up the outline of a firearm, regular geometric patterns are less common as a printing firearm may disturb the pattern and call attention to it. I personally use an inside waist band holster since I can get away with lighter cover garments.

Most common concealable holster types are shoulder rigs (usgalco.com for reference) and IWB (comp-tac.com for reference). The hotter climates tend toward IWB since you need a fairly loose or heavy cover garment to conceal most shoulder rigs.

Hope that expanded a bit on the answer for you.

lol I highly highly highly suggest the old Paranormal Animals of North America. One of the best shadowrun books ___EVER____ put out. ANd fully validates this view point. Parabiologicals make shadowrun so so so much scarier.