1. Combat Sense -> Avoid getting shot, works good with sustaining foci
2. Deflection -> As above
3. Stealth -> Helps with the infiltration.
4. Glue strip -> Stops people from chasing you.
5. Physical Camouflage -> Helps with infiltration
6. Orgy -> Incapacitates opponents
7. Flak -> In case there is a rigger after you.
8. Vehicle Mask -> Lose a tail quick. Good for when lonestar is after you.
9. Alter Memory -> When isn't this useful.
10. Net -> Binds people and inanimate objects. Good against high agility low strength characters.

Yeah but the loss of 6 dice to their combat skills will hurt. If you got the first two spells sustained then all those gun bunnies are completely useless. I kinda like avoiding combat when possible. If you're not getting shot your chances of survival improve drastically.

Being knocked unconscious by a stunball does worse things for their combat ability. If you want to imobilize without damaging go for Turn to Goo or Petrify.

The "best" spells are the ones which have a distinctly different physical principle to that which can be achieved with technological gadgetry. As a Magician you aren't paid by the team to do"awesome shit", you're paid to do awesome shit that a rigger cannot do. This is why Levitate is a better spell than Magic Fingers. It isn't because Magic Fingers is somehow incapable of doing cool stuff, it's that you can pretty much replicate Magic Fingers with drones in many important respects, and Levitate operates on an entire different and arbitrary set of restrictions that are not easily replicated.

You are part of a team who have diverse talents, and hopefully are willing to put some effort into planning and preparations. So any spell that you could get by without is obviously not something which counts as a "best" spell. Powerbolt is a better spell than Firebolt. Not because Powerbolt is always a spell that you want to use in place of Firebolt (firebolt is often a better option), but because Firebolt is more completely replicable with an AK than Powerbolt is.

That being said, the best spells are:

1. Heal - it operates separately and cumulatively with First Aid and is therefore not replaceable by anything. It is the best spell in the game.
   
2. Detect Life - bypasses all senses and goes straight for the Star Trek Tricorder bullshit. As per the example in the basic book it is capable of telling you not only where creatures are, but what they are and even what they are doing. Awesome covered in awesome sauce.
   
3. Physical Mask - also doubles as an attack spell since you can mask yourself as someone who doesn't have a light machine gun.
   
4. Fix - cumulative and separate from technical repairs. Game mechanically it is used before getting to normal repairs while the Heal spell is used after First Aid - but whatever. The point is that you shouldn't leave the house without this spell.
   
5. Mana Static - The answer to spirits and enemy magicians. It's a one-stop nut-punch to essentially any magical threat. It's hard for you to do anything while you're doing it, but who cares?
   
6. Trid Phantasm - Information is power, and Trid Phantasm allows you to create any information you want. Drain is intense, but seriously - holy crap.
   
7. Control Thoughts - The long term effects of this are pretty small, as it takes anyone just a few combat rounds to shake it off. However, this spell allows you to get pretty much anyone to do pretty much anything they cuould do in 15 seconds. In Shadowrun, that's a lot.
   
8. Shape Metal - Yes, you read that right, this is a sustained spell. That means that you can use it to open things and close them again. It's like having a portable door that also doubles as virtually unbreakable restraints.
   
9. Mind Probe - It's actually really hard to interogate people. Almost anyone can hold out against torture if they think they are going to die anyway. Mind Probe ends all that.
   
10. Turn to Goo - It serves double duty. First, it can be used as a simple Save-or-Die to drop an enemy right out of the fight, but secondly it can also be used to store characters in relative safety. Once in goo form, a character is actually pretty hard to hurt and doesn't need to breathe. You can use this spell on hostages to sequester them out of harm's way and on teammates you are smuggling through security. It serves as an attack, a defense, and a utility spell and operates on a completely random set of physical laws that other things do not apply to.

I mean sure, special shout-outs go to Power Bolt, Improved Invisibilty, Resist Pain, Levitate, Sterilize, and Animate - but the ones actually on the list are the best. Ones which if you know one or more of them you can automaticlaly be on my team, whatever else it is that you do.

-Frank

On the TTG and petrify spells and Spell Design/modification, you can also make it permanent, don't expect it to be low drain though.

I believe a novel has a club with what is supposedly a young street mage from what it says is the opening days of the Sixth World, who accidentally turned herself to stone.

As to what spells I like to Select? Most of them match what others have listed, they are the bread n butter after all.

1: Heal (obviously, I mean hardly a session has gone by that I haven't needed to heal atleast 1 teammate from serious damage lol. I've only been seriously wounded a few times, luckily back in the day(yeah right) I didn't botch the rolls and experience magic reduction or anything. Of course there have only been a relatively few number of times where the other mage/s in the party(when there is one) have had heal themselves.
I've basically mastered healing yourself when you're suffering wound penalties lol.

2: Stunbolt/ball (geek the mage proportion goes up when you leave behind many corpses lol)

3: Levitate: I've found it useful many, many times.

4: Fix: never know when that important Item/vehicle needs it. Once or twice I've even had to repair the Item that was the target of the run( I shoud probably beat my cousin into unconciousness with the BBB lol).

5: Physical Mask: I'm pretty sure that only those I intended, such as the team, etc have ever really seen my Main mystic adept. Quite a number of my contacts haven't even seen the real deal lol. Initiation + Paranoia are really fun.

6: Alter Memory: I've had to erase/modify the recollections of a few people lol. Lamont Cranston style!

7: Trid Phantasm: I've pulled many the "Jedi Mind Trick". One of my favorites, when combined with Improved Invis has been my obviously dead bloody corpse lying on the floor. That one has allowed me to get the Drop on a number of people, though obviously with penalties and quite a bit of drain if done proplerly lol.

I did pull both off with no drain once or twice(5th initiation+ with centering required. And the people running the games haven't given out a monstrous amount of Karma, just a bit more than usual since we don't play all that often.) Group initiation with Metaplanar Quest ordeal, most of which after the first were quite harsh! Creativity can get you a long way.

8: Improved Invis: The combination above, plus the many uses it can be put to. Add in Spirit Movement power with air spirit with Telekinesis and force 9-12(ouch!) and you have yourself quite the escape.

9: Physical Barrier: Useful for your protection, and as I've done a number of times, your fellow runners in the radius lol. Armor is another keeper, but I'll mention that here so that number 10....

10: Powerball: I need atleast one phys damage spell after all!(though since I stick with awakened, mostly mage, chars I normally get much more than 10 spells. I don't exactly get every spells just to get it though, I mean karma drain is hell-high for a mage.)

This is obviously subject to change based on the character, and I really make a point of having more lol.

Fun thing to do with physical barrier: Drop a small dome over the top of your PhysAd buddy and the poor bastard he's about to split open. Facing down a tweaked out Elf adept packing a weapon-focused monofilament whip can get pretty ugly, especially when you have nowhere to run and your buddies have to bring down a barrier before trying to save your sorry ass.

The Name of the Club where she turned herslef to stone is "The Alabaster Maiden."

Just for your Information.

Control Thoughts+Decrease Willpower == Perma Control
(or close enough to it)

>:-)

You guys are forgetting that in Shadowrun Plastisteel is referred to as an "alloy", not a "polymer" (M&M, p. 113). Similarly, Ferrocrete isn't stone. The most common building materials are in fact metal in the Shadowrun future - makes things have that nice 80's sci-fi feel evoking imagery from movies like Aliens. The distopic arcologies have metal walls and ducts that emit steam at irregular intervals for no discernable reason.

As to paint, well there is absolutely no way whatsoever that I would rule that a thin coat of paint would prevent you from using Shape Metal on a metal wall. Similarly, I would absolutely allow someone to use Shape Earth on a patch of ground that was covered by a lawn.

In Shadowrun Magic you don't need to literally have line of sight to the substance you are targetting, you need to have line of sight to the object you are targetting and the object has to be essentially the substance you can effect. For example, wearing full body combat armor does not make people immune to Mana Bolt despite the fact that the mage doesn't literally have line of sight to any part of your body as it is all blocked by non-living polymers. And paint of course.

So yes, Shape Metal is totally awesome. Shape Plastic is also very good, but usually requires you to be a total badass (since you need net hits over the OR to actually do anything).

-Frank

I really dont like all those new 4th editions spells : spells that alter the fabric of reality.
For some reasons i always believed that SR's magic was limited to affecting the astral and some "small" scale repercussion on the mundane world.
I remember a clear limitation regarding magic and the fact it couldnt summon "real" stuff (like summon a sword etc ...)
Anyway these are my 10 spells :
1) Heal
2) Mind Probe
3) Physical Barrier
4) Mana Barrier
5) Increased Reflexes
6) Mask
7) Clairvoyance
Clairaudience
9) Detect Life
10) Levitate

Actually, the only exception spell I can recall has been "Create Food", which was a 3rd edition spell that has since been removed for fourth edition.

-Frank

Thank you Noctum. I own the book, but was too lazy to go look lol.

Adding to my 10 choices, I often use/quicken the Improved Reflexes spell on my Magicians/Mystic Adepts. I find that it's normally cheaper power-pointwise to cast and eventually quicken on mystic adepts, than spend the relatively high number of points when I pretty much go mostly mage.

Yeah, but thats why any smart Mage will research their own "Shape Anything" spell as soon as they get to retcon their chars with the Arcana Skill.

Nasty Drain, but the effect is well worth it in my opinion.

Well, when I started talking about shape sand, my point was more about the inability to change the properties/nature of what you're working with, even if you can change it's shape. For example, there's going to be definite limits to what you can do when shaping low grade pig iron or loose mud, even if done with magic. You're certainly not going to do anything wacky like convert sand to fiberglass either, which is why I'm unsure what it is that treehugger was worried about with the SR4 manipulation spells.

Ok I see where you are coming from now and I agree totally.

Personally from his comments I think treehugger might get some milage from introducing a "Paradox System" ala White Wolf's Mage: The Awakening, that way Mages could pull off something big and flashy, but would pay dearly for it.

Yeah, but shape metal just says shape metal. Whether its sword grade steel, pig iron, or titanium.

Shape earth is the same... Mud, dirt, clay, granite, and so on.

When I was playing a mage I had a number of spells for Keeping Up & Not Getting Killed:
Combat Sense
Heal
Increased Reflexes

Combat:
Death Touch
Stunbolt
Powerball (this was more for fun)

Utility:
Ignite
Control Actions
Physical Barrier
Turn to Goo

I ended up with several others that were quite good: Magic Fingers, Ice Sheet, Mind Probe, Detox (only ever used to overcome the effects of recreational activities), Armour, Analyse Device, Clairvoyance.

Out of all of them I got the most use from Ignite, Heal, Physical Barrier, Control Actions and Turn to Goo. TtG was especially useful, for providing incentive, taking out opponents (we used to take out choppers by using TtG and Clairvoyance) and ended up being a favourite.

Physical Barrier was also excellent - temporary walkways, ramps for redirecting, cover and so on. Against biker gangs it was the perfect solution. Also good for containing blasts, at least temporarily.

Those and Spirit of Man got a real good workout.

My best spells have been said.

1. Levitate
2. phsycal mask
3. amkeover
4. fashion
5. heal
6. trid entertainment
7. sterilize
8. fix
9. detect life
10 analyze truth




On the other end the spells I consider bad.

1. Area of effect elemental spells. Cool idea, and even if it was the only way to get area of effect damage in the game it would still suck at its massive drain level.0
2. Ram/wreck/demolish Far to specific and no advantage other than drain(though a big drain difference) over a power bolt etc.
3. Antidote/cure disease. If they provided a number of extra successes = to net hits they would be decent spells but a number fo extra dice to roll per net hit on a TN 5 system is just suck.

*shrugs* As long as you limit the spell so it only affects inament objects I don't see it as being broken, as FrankTrollman has already pointed out, Shape Plastic is already basically a city version of Shape Anything, still to each their own.

And it wouldn't be more broken than, say: levitate or control thoughts

Oh, btw, I don't need ten spells, I would be happy with 8:

-heal
-trid phantasm
-levitate
-control thoughts
-detect life
-physical mask

to make a mage "complete" I would include a couple of damaging spells; one P and one M, like stunball and powerbolt, for example. They might not be the best spells, but they sure beat punching them in the face. -unless you made a mage samurai-

Cheers,

Max

1. Influence
2. Alter Memory
3. Mind Probe
4. Control Thoughts
5. Heal
6. Trid phantasm
7. Extended Detect Enemies
8. Improved Invisibility
9. Levitate
10. Some direct combat spell, like manaball

I can't seem to find Deflection in the books. Could someone please point me to a page number?

Bottom of the second column on page 172 of Street Magic

Many thanks

Hmmm, lets see what I've found top be the most useful spells in the past.

1> Physical Mask - Aside from disguising yourself, ever tried turning your opponents into you so their buddies gun them down instead?
2> Mind Probe - Knowledge is power and sometimes you want to "see" the truth from the target's point of view rather than hear what they thought they witnessed.
3> Combat Sense - Dodge good.
4> Magic Fingers - Oh the fun you can have with these: disarm bombs, pickpocket keycards and use them from inside a cell, get beer from the fridge without getting up...
5> Levitate - Avoid minefields or falling off high buildings.
6> Analyse Truth - OK, you could assense the target but the long-eyed stare gives it away. Also good for phonecalls.
7> Detect Trap/Explosives - Paranoid = survival.
8> Armour - If you do get hit, don't get hurt.
9> Manabolt - LOS ranged, direct targeting, unresisted by worn armour, and works a treat against astral active targets. Face it, banishing is downright dangerous!
10> Heal/Treat - Keeps you going for longer, unless you need a mechanic.

OK, there's plenty more out there, but those are my basics. I've left out the physical combat spells because a good sidearm is just as effective and dosen't cause drain, and seeing as smartlinks don't require cyberware these days...

As for unusual spells that i've utilised over the years, well, howabout the yakuza boss who used Turn to Tree on his more treasured opponents and failed minions. Had his miko turn them into Bonzai shrubs and quickened - plus he use to prune them regularly and tlk to them all the time. Captive audience don'tcha know.

My personal designed favourite was an elemental light sword spell. Harnessed into a Sustaining foci it was quite a low Drain to cast and required the users to weild it with melee weapons/blades skill. Caused all sorts of problems for those allergic/vulnerable to light/heat effects though. Street Jedi Vampire Slayers anyone?

Physical Mask requires the caster to actually touch the subject, which tends to limit the applications of this tactic.

I see some people going for stunbolt/ball and some for manabolt/ball and a few going for powerbolt/ball. I think I know (mostly), but what are the pros and cons of each?

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry743338

Many thanks, my friend

On the other hand, never forget the fact that you can pull some awesome tricks with indirect combat spells, hitting targets you can't see, possible access to the called shot rules, and the fact that they are better if your target has decent counterspelling.

Stunbolt and Stunball deal damage to the Stun (duh!) track which in turn is determined by Willpower. Against single targets, a silenced S&S(or any of the related cousins that does Stun damage) would suffice, especially if the shot was fired by the street sam. Stunball is good to take down more targets simultaneously. Stun spells are also useful against spirits.

Manabolt and Manaball deal Physical damage but only against live targets. They affect the same things as the Stun family but at a higher Drain and is also resisted by the same. What is the use of Mana spells then? The difference is the type of damage. A weakly mage isn't going to have a long Physical track while he is more likely to have a high Willpower, which translates to a longer Stun track.

Powerbolt and Powerball spells affect all physical targets (and targets within the AOE) at the expense of an even higher Drain. The damage is Physical. This is good against drones and such if you have a large Spellcasting dice pool so that you can overcome Object Resistance. I personally dislike Powerball because the AOE may sometimes work against you.

Quick thought, one of the drawbacks of AOE spells is that you may have friends in the Area. But if the opposition doesn't have counterspelling, couldn't you just cast it slightly lower and counterspell the effect on your buddies? In other words, can you counterspell your own spell? Since you are providing counterspelling to your group, you would in essence protect them from teh harmful mana, while ensuring the enemy suffers the wrath of it. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

The inverse is also true. That Troll with 12 Body + dermal armor and bone lacing might have 4 or 5 willpower at most, barring extraordinary cases. Body is much easier to boost than Willpower, and thugs are much more common than mages. I think Stunbolt wins hands down, given the multicasting trick mentioned earlier.

[Edit:] If you do come up against a mage, just shoot him or lob a grenade. Armor and deflection spells only do so much, especially against something like a HE grenade, or even an incindiary or breathstealer.

Stunball can be (sort of) replicated with a Narcoject splash grenade, Stunbolt with Stick n' Shock ammo; the big things (so far as I can tell) that make spells better are armor ignorance (splash grenades can be defeated with chemical protection, gas with air seals, and electric damage gives half Impact + nonconductivity rating; protection vs. spells is a lot harder to get without a counterspelling mage or sheltering spirit) and their utility against spirits and other magical nasties.

Not really. What a Stunbolt can do is similar to what can be achieved from a S&S burst fired from a Sakura Fubuki by any competent person. The AOE Stunball is much more difficult to duplicate through mundane methods. My point was that against certain targets, it might be better to have Manabolt than Stunbolt.

Manabolt, being a Mana spell, is resisted with Willpower.
Powerbolt, being a Physical spell, is resisted with Body.