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Stingray
QUOTE (Mäx @ Jul 8 2009, 03:32 PM) *
That need 8 Body&Strenght to fire Heavy weapons is the most retarded optional rule in any of the books.
With it you need Body&Strenght two higher than human natural maximum to fire a freaking grenade pistol.

iI agree with you..human would need maxium Body attribute,Exeptional Attribute (Body) Quality and
Suprahyroid Gland-Bioware.. WHY there is no Cyber/Bioware that raise Body Attribute exept
Suprahyroid Gland (+1 Body) Big Fr''''''ng WHUPEE!!!!!
You can always also make human Adept and raise Body with Improved Physical Attribute (Body) to needed 8
Stingray
QUOTE (Traul @ Jul 8 2009, 03:41 PM) *
That's because they copied it too quickly from SR3, where grenade launchers were not heavy weapons.

If you go that way, considering a pistol as a heavy weapon sounds pretty retarded in the first place, even if it's great news for the heavy weapon specialist biggrin.gif

Those rules say Carry and Fire. By those rules Gyromount is needed when carrying Ares Alpha..
(Remember that cute little Underbarrel GRENADE LAUNCHER...)
and do not forget knockdown test after firing..
Shrike30
If you can't get enough portable RC even with a cyberarm gyromount... GET ONE IN THE OTHER ARM, TOO. Even with HV weapons, you can usually figure out a way to handle all the recoil if you're starting out with 6 points of RC before you even pick up the gun.
WyldKnight
Ok I think I got the heavy weapons part down. I will get a gyromount when I get a heavier machine gun. Until then I think I will be happy with my white knight and it’s under barrel grenade launcher.

Now the only thing I am trying to figure out are stats, implants, and skills. When it comes to combat characters the skills are pretty much obvious but I am not sure what stats to give him. The near maxed out logic is basically as high as I will get it, same with his agility, but what’s a good body and strength stat? Implants were also a bit confusing. Wired Reflexes is obvious, the cerebral booster as well. The regulator for those long operations (both runs and medical) and the toner for his sub par agility. Should I keep the lacing or replace it with something else? I thought of getting reaction enhancers 2 which would give him a 6(8 ) reaction.

I thought the reflex recorder for the biotech group was a good idea but then I realize I am going to break this group early on when I buy a spec in combat wounds for first aid and trauma surgery (or awakened, depending on the amount of mages/adepts in our group) in medicine. The medical shop already gives me a plus 8. So that’s biotech 4 + 8 (6 in the case of on site healing) + 6 logic = 16 normal 18 with shop. That will be 18/20 within the first 2 runs when I get the specs. I know cybertechnology doesn’t seem like that useful of a skill but I want him to be prepared for everything and maybe later on begin designing his own implants.

In combat it would be automatics (assault rifles) 4(6) + smartlink + agility 6 so only 12(14). Not as much as the other combat character (a 15(17) in long arms and pistols) but I think it should get the jobs done…I think. I really don’t know lol. Heavy weapons seem to be the same problem with 13(15). I wasn’t going for a combat twink, in fact I was focusing more on the medical and armorer side of things, but I’m sure his combat effectiveness will pan out soon and from there I guess I could pick up other abilities to broaden myself a bit. Odds are gunnery being the first.

Is there anything I missed?

I know I could make a more optimized character with another race but I want to make one character of every racial group before doing another again.

Ork – Check
Elf (wakyambi) – Check
Troll – Hopefully check
Stingray
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Jul 9 2009, 02:43 AM) *
Ok I think I got the heavy weapons part down. I will get a gyromount when I get a heavier machine gun. Until then I think I will be happy with my white knight and it’s under barrel grenade launcher.

Now the only thing I am trying to figure out are stats, implants, and skills. When it comes to combat characters the skills are pretty much obvious but I am not sure what stats to give him. The near maxed out logic is basically as high as I will get it, same with his agility, but what’s a good body and strength stat? Implants were also a bit confusing. Wired Reflexes is obvious, the cerebral booster as well. The regulator for those long operations (both runs and medical) and the toner for his sub par agility. Should I keep the lacing or replace it with something else? I thought of getting reaction enhancers 2 which would give him a 6(cool.gif reaction.

I thought the reflex recorder for the biotech group was a good idea but then I realize I am going to break this group early on when I buy a spec in combat wounds for first aid and trauma surgery (or awakened, depending on the amount of mages/adepts in our group) in medicine. The medical shop already gives me a plus 8. So that’s biotech 4 + 8 (6 in the case of on site healing) + 6 logic = 16 normal 18 with shop. That will be 18/20 within the first 2 runs when I get the specs. I know cybertechnology doesn’t seem like that useful of a skill but I want him to be prepared for everything and maybe later on begin designing his own implants.

In combat it would be automatics (assault rifles) 4(6) + smartlink + agility 6 so only 12(14). Not as much as the other combat character (a 15(17) in long arms and pistols) but I think it should get the jobs done…I think. I really don’t know lol. Heavy weapons seem to be the same problem with 13(15). I wasn’t going for a combat twink, in fact I was focusing more on the medical and armorer side of things, but I’m sure his combat effectiveness will pan out soon and from there I guess I could pick up other abilities to broaden myself a bit. Odds are gunnery being the first.

Is there anything I missed?

I know I could make a more optimized character with another race but I want to make one character of every racial group before doing another again.

Ork – Check
Elf (wakyambi) – Check
Troll – Hopefully check

Reaction Enchanters and Wired Reflexes do not stack (Catalyst Labs,Shadowrun RPG,FAQ)
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Stingray @ Jul 9 2009, 06:36 AM) *
Reaction Enchanters and Wired Reflexes do not stack (Catalyst Labs,Shadowrun RPG,FAQ)

QUOTE ('SR4A p. 342')
Wired reflexes cannot be combined with any other form of Initiative enhancement, except Reaction Enhancers.
The FAQ do not always represent RAW, unfortunately.
Stingray
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 9 2009, 09:39 AM) *
The FAQ do not always represent RAW, unfortunately.

it all depend are you playing by rules of SR4 or SR4A..
WyldKnight
Well we are playing by SR4A. Better to learn sooner then later.

So the build is basically the same, I need to keep the specs because I need to get as many dice at chargen as I can. I know this GM, I will need them. I gave up the lacing and the skill recorder and got the reaction enhancers so reaction is 6( 8 ) now. Is there anything else I can do or is it basically as good as it will get? Also I still have 8 points left over and have no idea what to do with them. Maybe buy restricted gear and get that sweet grenade launcher, idk.
Muspellsheimr
The Official FAQ is, at best, a piece of shit that should be ignored.

In SR4, Reaction Enhancers & Wired Reflexes stack.
In SR4A, the specification of such is redundant.

Why? Reaction Enhancers increase Reaction. They do not provide a bonus to Initiative, they indirectly modify it by increasing a base attribute, in a similar manner that Muscle Toner does not increase your Firearms, it increases the linked attribute.
Dakka Dakka
By that reading nothing but the spell Increase Reflexes increases Initiative directly. Wired Reflexes, synaptic boosters, MBW enhance Reaction and Initiatve Passes. The derived Initiative score is only indirectly modified.
Stingray
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Jul 9 2009, 10:25 AM) *
Well we are playing by SR4A. Better to learn sooner then later.

So the build is basically the same, I need to keep the specs because I need to get as many dice at chargen as I can. I know this GM, I will need them. I gave up the lacing and the skill recorder and got the reaction enhancers so reaction is 6( 8 ) now. Is there anything else I can do or is it basically as good as it will get? Also I still have 8 points left over and have no idea what to do with them. Maybe buy restricted gear and get that sweet grenade launcher, idk.

8 BP.. (if GM allow)(Runner's Companion) Changeling Quality (Surge I level) (5 BP) gives you free 10 BP worth of free positive metagenetic Qualities
10 BP Dermal Deposit (1/1 natural armor like trolls have), 10 BP Quick Healer, 5 BP Ogre Stomach (-20 % lifestyle costs+
+2 die to resist ingested toxins) 5 BP Celerity (Walking and Running Speed + 50 %) of course you must then take 5 BP
worth of negative Metagenetic Qualities, and those remaining 3 Bp.. Contacts or Skills..
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 9 2009, 01:33 AM) *
By that reading nothing but the spell Increase Reflexes increases Initiative directly. Wired Reflexes, synaptic boosters, MBW enhance Reaction and Initiatve Passes. The derived Initiative score is only indirectly modified.

Initiative Passes are part of your Initiative.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jul 9 2009, 04:36 PM) *
Initiative Passes are part of your Initiative.

proof.gif
Initiative is defined as follows:
QUOTE ('SR4A p. 68')
A derived attribute, Initiative is the sum of Reaction and Intuition, plus any additional dice from implanted or magical reflex enhancers.

Initiative Passes are independent from Initiative:
QUOTE ('SR4A p. 68')
Some implants and magic may give a character extra actions to take in each Combat Turn. These are noted as extra Initiative Passes on the character’s record sheet
Muspellsheimr
SR4A p.144

Have fun reading - Initiative Passes is a sub-category of Initiative
Dakka Dakka
Great two definitions for one word.
Traul
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Jul 9 2009, 09:25 AM) *
I gave up the lacing and the skill recorder and got the reaction enhancers so reaction is 6( 8 ) now.


Actually, it's 4( 8 ). The difference is you can buy the last point later with karma wink.gif If you have spare points, get more contacts. It doesn't hurt your concept, and it's always good to have a fixer, fencer, smuggler, arm dealer, whatever,... at hand.
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