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Chance359
A friend of mine who's new to Shadowrun and is gonna be doing a Missions game this weekend. I've suggested to use a pregen, but he's insisted on building a character, so here he is.

Troll Sam


B: 8 (3 to damage resistance)
A: 4 (6)
R: 3 (5)
S: 8 (10)
C: 2
I: 3
L: 4
W: 4

Edge: 1
Essence: 0.15
Initiative Passes: 3

Qualities:
Bad Luck


Bioware
Muscle Augmentation: 2
Muscle Toners: 2

Cyberware
Bone Lacing Ceramic
Cyberears: 3 (Audio Enhancement,

Balance Augmenter, Damper, Spartinal

Recognizer)
Cybereyes: 3 (Flare Compensation,

Low-Light vision, Smartlink,

Thermographic Vision, Vision

Magnification)
Olfactory Booster: 1
Internal Air Tank
Wired Reflexes: 2

Skills (122)
Athletics: 1
Dodge: 2
Etiquette: 3
Gunnery: 2
Infiltration: 4
Longarm: 4
Parachuting: 1
Pilot Ground Craft: 4
Pistols: 2
Survival: 2
Unarmed Combat: 4

Knowledge skills
Biology: 3
Chemistry: 1
Knots: 3
Military: 4
Paranormal Critters
Security Design: 2
Security Procedures: 4
Sprots: 2


Contacts: 24
Hacker: 3/4
Fixer: 4/4
Supply Seargent: 6/3


Gear:
Middle Lifestyle (one month)
5x Flash-Bang Grenades
10x Frag Grenades
3 x Smoke Grenades
10 kg of Commercial explosives
5x Detonator Cap
2x Durable Clothing
Armored Jacket
Armor Vest
Erika Elite
Ghillie Suit
Flashlight
Fake License: 4
Fake SIN: 4
Took Kit
Medkit: 6
Doc Wagon Contract (gold 1 year)
Tent
Backpack

Vehicle:

GAZ P-179

Weapons:
Mossberg CMDT w/ Sling, silencer, foregrip
Ruger 100 w/ sling
Ares Predator 4 w/ silencer, personalized grip
Background is that he grew up in the country, enlisted in military, served and was honorably discharged.
Grinder
Seems fine to me.
Wandering One
At first glance: He needs perception skill, I'm a little lost as to 'Paranormal Critters Security Design' knowledge skill, or if you just left out a # there, a loyalty of 6 needs to be heavily backstoried (you're talking about a guy willing to take bullets for you at that point), which you've started but would need to flesh out, you could easily add the Sinner flaw to him and keep in line with the backstory (almost have to, if he's on record with the military, depending on the situation) for some additional points, and you might want to swap out Wired Reflexes 2 for equivalent bioware unless it was a price decision. It's a lot gentler on the essence and you're not risking cyberzombie essence levels that way.

Also, what's the fake license for? (Concealed weapons, explosives for construction use, etc.)

Armored jacket and vest seem duplicated, though an urban explorer jumpsuit (and maybe a nice suit as well for Johnson meets) would be good investments. He's also got a TON of explosives... but no ammo.
DWC
Four things immediately come to mind.

1) The character is missing the most important skill in the game. Perception is crucial for pretty much everyone. It's also unlikely that a designated marksman isn't going to have observation and situational awareness training.

2) Bone lacing is terrible. You can't get a license for it, and as cyberware, is easily detected. In Denver, it's a non-issue. In NYC, it's going to be a problem.

3) I see weapon related skills, but no weapons.

4) Gunnery is going to be far less useful than Heavy Weapons.
YourAdHere
QUOTE (DWC @ Apr 7 2010, 12:50 PM) *
4) Gunnery is going to be far less useful than Heavy Weapons.


Or Automatics, as ARs and SMGs are typical military issue. Much more than LMGs, of course, if they were looking for someone to handle that Stoner, a troll would be the obvious first choice.
Mongoose
Aside from the shooty skill / no weapon thing, I see explosives, but no Demolitions skill. With a logic of 4. And lots of grenades, but no skill to throw them with.

So yeah, match up some skill and gear together. Background wise, might want to explain why an honorably discharged soldier is now in the shadows, and not working legit security; gms like to know WHY you are a Shadowrunner.

Reaction enhancers might be a viable alternative to the bone lacing; being able to dodge better beats having better damage resistance. RE2 is cheaper (in cash and essence) than Ceramic Bone Lacing.
This guy also looks like a good candidate for skillwires; the military might require them to allow rapid re-deployment without extensive training. Even if you don't have the cash for many skillsofts, they can be a good investment for the future.

Grinder
QUOTE (Wandering One @ Apr 7 2010, 07:50 PM) *
At first glance: He needs perception skill,


D'oh! Seems like I glitched on my Perception test. wobble.gif
Makki
my first thought, and i'm shocked no one already mentioned it, Edge 1 and Bad Luck? this troll probably won't survive the first session...
Grinder
Come on, he has an internal air tank. biggrin.gif
Ed_209a
First thing that hit me was Edge 1 and Bad luck.

I treat Edge like any other stat and like to start it at 2-3 pre mods for every character. Is that under the radar because it is for a missions game, not a campaign?


Ditto for the perception thing.

Ditch the explosives, buy an assault rifle.

Unless he wants to specialize in only one type of weapon, really think about Firearms group.

kjones
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't having low Edge somewhat mitigate the effect of Bad Luck? Sure, it means that you don't get to make many Edged rolls, but if you do roll a 1, then you're only penalized by one die.

What I'm trying to say is, low Edge + Bad Luck is not that much worse than just low Edge.
Patrick the Gnome
Parachuting?

I don't really have a problem with the Edge 1 thing from a conception standpoint, just so long as you make it a quirk of his to fail anything gambling or fortune related. It certainly hurts from a survival standpoint (more than dodge, armor, or sneakiness edge is the number 1 factor in keeping a character alive after a horrible roll).

He definetly has to work on his skills/equipment synergy as has already been said.

Bonelacing does suck for anyone who's not a cyber melee fighter or an adept who can afford deltaware. He should take one of the other 'wares that have been suggested in this thread.
DWC
Depending on the location, parachuting can be an extremely handy lsat ditch escape skill. A chameleon suit, coupled with a ruthenium polymer parachute means you're never trapped on the 75th floor of a skyscraper. With a little skill and a sport parachute, you can hook around another building to break line of sight and then you've got a plethora of options for disappearing.

Also, escaping from security by BASE jumping is awesome. This is doubly true if you can land on a passing motorcycle, shove the rider off, and ride the bike to freedom.
Digital Heroin
QUOTE (DWC @ Apr 8 2010, 03:11 AM) *
Also, escaping from security by BASE jumping is awesome. This is doubly true if you can land on a passing motorcycle, shove the rider off, and ride the bike to freedom.


Sounds to me like someone's been playing Just Cause 2.
DWC
QUOTE (Digital Heroin @ Apr 7 2010, 10:17 PM) *
Sounds to me like someone's been playing Just Cause 2.


Nope. Just replayed the second GTA4 DLC, but after looking at Just Cause 2, I might have to go pick it up.
Patrick the Gnome
QUOTE (DWC @ Apr 7 2010, 10:11 PM) *
Depending on the location, parachuting can be an extremely handy lsat ditch escape skill. A chameleon suit, coupled with a ruthenium polymer parachute means you're never trapped on the 75th floor of a skyscraper. With a little skill and a sport parachute, you can hook around another building to break line of sight and then you've got a plethora of options for disappearing.

Also, escaping from security by BASE jumping is awesome. This is doubly true if you can land on a passing motorcycle, shove the rider off, and ride the bike to freedom.


Good point. He just needs the requisite chameleon suit and parachute.
Grinder
Which he can buy in-game. He doesn't have to buy every useful piece of equipment during chargen only. wink.gif
Patrick the Gnome
QUOTE (Grinder @ Apr 8 2010, 01:59 AM) *
Which he can buy in-game. He doesn't have to buy every useful piece of equipment during chargen only. wink.gif


It'd be nice if he bought some though...
ZeroPoint
QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Apr 7 2010, 07:47 PM) *
I don't really have a problem with the Edge 1 thing from a conception standpoint, just so long as you make it a quirk of his to fail anything gambling or fortune related. It certainly hurts from a survival standpoint (more than dodge, armor, or sneakiness edge is the number 1 factor in keeping a character alive after a horrible roll).



Give him an addiction (Gambling) and In Debt qualities and laugh as he takes his mission rewards, gambles it all away and can't pay back the loan shark and they come to reposes his shiny cyberware.

That actually sounds kinda fun. I might have to do that with my next character.
Saint Sithney
As has been mentioned with the license, most GMs will require a separate license for each piece of restricted gear or at least each type, and beware of forbidden gear in NYC unless his fake ID is going to place him as some sort of corpsec HRT/ops guy who can pull rank on the MAD scan guys. If that's the case, make sure he invests in Con.

As for the Perception deficit, I'd recommend an Attention Coprocessor and Vision Enhancers for the cybereyes. That's +3 dice for general Perception and +3 more for Visual Perception at a much lower price tag than buying up the skill past 1.

He might consider ditching some of that Strength as well. It's not as useful as a lot of other stats, like Intuition or Agility.
Saint Sithney
QUOTE (ZeroPoint @ Apr 8 2010, 01:35 PM) *
Give him an addiction (Gambling) and In Debt qualities and laugh as he takes his mission rewards, gambles it all away and can't pay back the loan shark and they come to reposes his shiny cyberware.

That actually sounds kinda fun. I might have to do that with my next character.



Most RP-centric qualities like In Debt or Enemy aren't allowed in Missions from what I recall.
Stingray
QUOTE (Grinder @ Apr 8 2010, 09:59 AM) *
Which he can buy in-game. He doesn't have to buy every useful piece of equipment during chargen only. wink.gif

..but in char.gen everything he/she buys is Troll-modified (wo/+ 25 % price)
(SR4A pg. 311 .." as rule we suggest that metatype modification costs do not be incurred for any
gear purchased during character creation" )
Ol' Scratch
It's not even a 25% price hike anyway. It ranges from 10%-25%. They got rid of dwarf = 10% and troll = 25%, and instead made it flaky and hard to determine what to do as a player for... some unknown reason.
FriendoftheDork
This troll will usually have only 10 dice to shoot with. Most combats in an urban setting is with pistols or other concealable weaponry (not ruger 100 or a shotgun). That's a bit low. At the very least get a specialization in Semi-autos or Heavy Pistols.

As an alternative, get the Firearms skills group so he can use assault rifles and SMGs, fits alot better with his military background.

Perception is kinda obvious. The bad luck might actually work as he is a troll and can stand alot of punisment, but I'd lower str by 1 and increase Intuition instead or buy better shooting skills.

Also, Mossberg CMDT with no recoil compensation is totally useless... that's double recoil for being a shotgun.
Stingray
QUOTE (FriendoftheDork @ Apr 9 2010, 10:15 AM) *
This troll will usually have only 10 dice to shoot with. Most combats in an urban setting is with pistols or other concealable weaponry (not ruger 100 or a shotgun). That's a bit low. At the very least get a specialization in Semi-autos or Heavy Pistols.

As an alternative, get the Firearms skills group so he can use assault rifles and SMGs, fits alot better with his military background.

Perception is kinda obvious. The bad luck might actually work as he is a troll and can stand alot of punisment, but I'd lower str by 1 and increase Intuition instead or buy better shooting skills.

Also, Mossberg CMDT with no recoil compensation is totally useless... that's double recoil for being a shotgun.

so true.. in urban settings Heavy Pistols, Machine Pistols and SMG's are kings of the jungle..

Mossberg CMDT w/ silencer?? RAW SR4A pg. 322 " a silencer can be only be used with single shot or semi-automatic weapons"
Chance359
After a few days to digest, heres v 2

Troll Sam


B: 8 (1 to damage resistance)
A: 3 (5)
R: 3 (5)
S: 7 (10)
C: 3
I: 3
L: 3
W: 4

Edge: 2
Essence: 0.55
Initiative Passes: 3

Qualities:
Addiction Alcohol Mild
Incompetent (cyber combat)
SINner

Bioware
Muscle Augmentation: 2
Muscle Toners: 2

Cyberware
Cyberears: 3 (Audio Enhancement,

Balance Augmenter, Damper, Spartinal

Recognizer)
Cybereyes: 3 (Flare Compensation,

Low-Light vision, Smartlink,

Thermographic Vision, Vision

Magnification)
Datajack
Internal Air Tank
Reaction Enhancers: 1
Skillwires: 3
Wired Reflexes: 2

Skills (130)
Athletics: 1
Dodge: 2
Etiquette: 3
Firearms: 4
Infiltration: 4
Perception: 3
Pilot Ground Craft: 4
Survival: 2
Unarmed Combat: 4

Knowledge skills
Biology: 3
Chemistry: 1
Knots: 3
Military: 4
Paranormal Critters
Security Design: 2
Security Procedures: 4
Sports: 2


Contacts: 24
Hacker: 3/3
Fixer: 3/3
Supply Seargent: 4/2


Gear:
Middle Lifestyle (one month)
5x Flash-Bang Grenades
10x Frag Grenades
3 x Smoke Grenades
10 kg of Commercial explosives
5x Detonator Cap
2x Durable Clothing
Armored Jacket
Armor Vest
Erika Elite
Ghillie Suit
Flashlight
(cyberware) Fake License: 4
(guns) Fake License: 4
2x Fake SIN: 4
Tool Kit
Medkit: 6
Doc Wagon Contract (gold 1 year)
Tent
Backpack
10x Autosofts (First Aid, Throwing,

Demolitions, Shadowing, Armorer,

Negotiations, +3 others)

Weapons:
Mossberg CMDT w/ Sling, personalized

Grip, shock pads, underbarrel weight, 40 explosive arounds, 50 regular rounds, 30 gel rounds
Ruger 100 w/ sling, 30 explosive rounds, 50 regular rounds
Ares Predator 4 w/ silencer, 50 regular rounds, 40 explosive rounds


Vehicle:

GAZ P-179
Wandering One
-Paranormal critters should probably get a rating.
-Sprots is still making me laugh.
-Why the olfactory booster? Amusement factor?
-Codeblock needs more definition:
QUOTE
Codeblock
Bonus: 5 BP
A character with the Codeblock quality always has trouble with a particular Matrix action. He receives a –2 dice pool modifier any time he attempts that type of Matrix action. Codeblock only applies to Matrix actions with an associated test; it does not apply to actions that do not require a test (jacking out, for example). Gamemasters should not allow non-hackers to apply Codeblock towards hacking actions that they are never likely to use.

-Still need ammo for those shiny toys.
-I *believe* you'd need a fake license for your restricted cyberware AND a fake license (separate) for the guns, but can't remember offhand.
-Took Kit: You have a pouch of hobbits?! You fool of a Took! (Yeah, I know, just a spelling error, but amused me.)
Stingray
as RAW( SR4A pg 322) Gas-vent system can be build machine pistols,smg's,assault rifles and machine guns
(no shotguns),instead Personalized grip + Shock pad + Underbarrel weight/auto-adjusting weight works
in shotguns..
Chance359
Fixed spelling and ammo counts.
Patrick the Gnome
You don't really need the whole firearms group. Both your main weapons are longarms and having the group both wastes BP and prevents you from getting a specialization at chargen. Even if you still want the pistol skill, you can get it too and still only spend 8 BP per rating of both skills as opposed to 10 BP per rating of the group. I'd suggest that you pump Longarms up to 5 with a specialization in shotguns, take a point of pistols specializing heavy, and spend the 14 extra BP on another point of Agility and a bump to one of your other skills.

Also, Etiquette sucks, you're much better off with Con or Negotiation.

Unless your taking the Ghillie Suit for flavor purposes, a Chameleon suit is mechanically better than it pretty much every way except cost.

High Explosive Grenades are also generally better than Frag Grenades unless you plan on fighting something with absolutely no armor on a regular basis, although you still don't have the throwing skill for either.

I usually specialize in everything when making a character, but if your karma awards generally come quickly then it may be more cost effective for you to wait to specialize with karma.

Overall this character seems balanced and effective, should make a survivable runner.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Apr 9 2010, 02:03 PM) *
Also, Etiquette sucks, your much better off with Con or Negotiation.

To quote Kyle Broflovski's mom: "WHAT WHAT WHAT?!"

Etiquette rocks, man. If a character is only going to have one social skill, that's the one they should have most of all. It's used to get information, keep people from thinking you don't belong, and ease suspicions about your activities. It also helps you get out of a bad situation when you, the player, royally screw up in a social situation. Con and Negotiation are for more socially active and aggressive characters. And a character lacking Etiquette (Military) won't last long in the military. The specialization isn't necessary; it's just being used for emphasis.
Patrick the Gnome
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 9 2010, 03:13 PM) *
To quote Kyle Broflovski's mom: "WHAT WHAT WHAT?!"

Etiquette rocks, man. If a character is only going to have one social skill, that's the one they should have most of all. It's used to get information, keep people from thinking you don't belong, and ease suspicions about your activities. It also helps you get out of a bad situation when you, the player, royally screw up in a social situation. Con and Negotiation are for more socially active and aggressive characters. And a character lacking Etiquette (Military) won't last long in the military. The specialization isn't necessary; it's just being used for emphasis.


Maybe the games you've played are different, but I've never had a GM say "k, now roll etiquette." I suppose for a character who can't really succeed as a secondary face etiquette might be better simply for avoiding trouble, although considering that Etiquette is opposed by Perception it seems to be the social skill test most likely to fail simply because most NPCs actually have Perception. Most of the time I've found that lying to people is better for avoiding suspicion and negotiation is better for obtaining information at a reasonable price, but then my characters generally go to hackers or brokers for their info, not bars. For screwing up in a social situation, yes Etiquette has its advantages. Etiquette (Military) may have a certain flavor advantage to it, but for the most part in my experience I've found Con and Negotiation to be more useful. I suppose for this player he'll just have to decide which situations he's more likely to get in to on his own.
Ol' Scratch
<shrugs>

Etiquette is the defacto social skill. The fact that you and/or your GM don't use it properly has little bearing on that fact. It's the one skill that comes up in nearly any social situation. Hell, you should rarely even get the chance to use Negotiation or Con without it. I mean, how far are you going to get trying to haggle if your opponent thinks you're an outsider? And how are you going to con your way past that guard when you can't even do the basics to convince him that you belong in the first place? It's like trying to walk into a secure facility dressed as a clown and trying to con the guards into letting you in because you're there to repair a gas leak.

That said, even Leadership makes more sense for a former military man than Con or Negotiation do, coming in second behind Etiquette. If you're going to give advice to a character, at least keep it consistent with the character type rather than pure power gaming. "Oh, you're playing a pacifist hacker? Okay. Be sure to take a smartlink-enabled Ares Alpha and the Automatics and Heavy Weapons skill, because it's one of the best weapons in the game. And way better than that useless Streetline Special you have."
Patrick the Gnome
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 9 2010, 03:46 PM) *
<shrugs>

Etiquette is the defacto social skill. The fact that you and/or your GM don't use it properly has little bearing on that fact. It's the one skill that comes up in nearly any social situation. Hell, you should rarely even get the chance to use Negotiation or Con without it. I mean, how far are you going to get trying to haggle if your opponent thinks you're an outsider? And how are you going to con your way past that guard when you can't even do the basics to convince him that you belong in the first place? It's like trying to walk into a secure facility dressed as a clown and trying to con the guards into letting you in because you're there to repair a gas leak.

That said, even Leadership makes more sense for a former military man than Con or Negotiation do, coming in second behind Etiquette. If you're going to give advice to a character, at least keep it consistent with the character type rather than pure power gaming. "Oh, you're playing a pacifist hacker? Okay. Be sure to take a smartlink-enabled Ares Alpha and the Automatics and Heavy Weapons skill, because it's one of the best weapons in the game. And way better than that useless Streetline Special you have."


You have a point. Perhaps I haven't considered all the situations in which Etiquette should come up. As for the flavor of the character, Con may indeed be inappropriate, although maybe not depending on which army he was in and how high of a rank he obtained, but I would say that Negotiation is at least justifiable in a former military officer. In general I wouldn't say that any social skill is completely unjustifiable for any character to have.
Whipstitch
Yeah, the baseline use of Etiquette is pretty handy. With a virtually risk free (even normal glitches are pretty harmless) Charisma+Etiquette vs. Perception+Charisma opposed test you can alter the subject's attitude towards you. If you're dealing with someone who's perfectly ambivalent (IE, Neutral) to your presence, a single net hit on the previously mentioned test will let you chat them up to Friendly, netting you a +2 dice bonus that'll be applicable whether it turns out you need to Con the guy or whether you deal with him straight (Negotiation/Leadership). I suppose you could argue that you could just ALWAYS lie to everyone you meet via Con, but frankly, that kinda thing'll catch up to you in the long run and Negotiate really shouldn't always be applicable in cases where the other party can't really gain anything. And if the GM just straight up springs a "Must Be This Suave To Enter," test on you? That's likely to be an Etiquette check. In essence, Etiquette may not get you what you need directly, but it's flexible in a pinch since it softens your target on opposed tests and because it lets you keep your head down socially. So if you're only going to roll 6 dice on one social skill with a big ass scary troll it should probably be Etiquette, since you're likely to run into a lot of attitude in your time as runner.
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