I was just wondering...

Is there an area in the Shadowrun books that describes how to create mechs for use in gameplay?
I'm not thinking Macross-sized mechs or anything, but something more along the lines of a landmate from Appleseed (about 10 to 12 feet tall).

Cyberzombies, jarheads, drones. Arsenal and Augmentation source books.

Closest thing I can think of off the top of my head is Military Grade Armor (which is more like a power suit) and the Rigger Cocoon mod for large drones (but there really aren't any humanoid type drones that large). Shadowrun doesn't generally support thing on the far left side of Sci-Fi like that in my experience.

Officaly, they don't exist, and everytime I have brought it up with devs I get frownyfaces...

There is no reason you can't design them starting with mil-spec armor and moving to big drones with cockpits. However, from a standpoint of use vs energy consumption, irl they don't work as well. There is a reason DARPA guys look at me funny if I bring it up at lunch (about the same faces devs have given me even)

Basically, anything that would necessitate a "mech" would be better put on a nice set of good ol' stable tank treads. Or a ship. Or something with wheels. Just about anything but legs, really.

And they don't want to cross system with Battletech. That's gotta be a huge 'no no'. With Palladium just re-acquiring the Robotech license and stuff, *shakes head*

Sides. a chromed Troll is much more fun.

Well, there is BattleRun, of course.

If you -really must-, simply put Rigger Coccons and Walker Mode on a vehicle, its only 3 mod slots, so large drones could take it. Less, with overmodding.

If someone were interested in running a non-standard SR game, I think it'd be interesting to have a GM houserule that on -everything-. Well, except for things it doesn't make sense on, like busses and trains. See how the gameplay changes.

The thing about Shadowrun is that the tech for making mechs exists, but it would break the game system... just like a teleport spell for mages would break the system.

Let's face it, since cold fusion exists in Shadowrun*, then you have the necessary power source to make a mech. Weapons are even easier as laser cannons and railguns exist...


* == not to say that cold fusion doesn't exist in reality... it's just that we have not found it yet.

How would mechs break the game system? Are they any worse than drones? Or tanks? Or any other kind of vehicle?

Frankly, they're probably easier to destroy - if you can take out a leg, you're good.

The reason that they would break the game is that it is "easier" to out maneuver a tank than a mech. Think about it kjones, the tank has to transverse the huge turret and even then if you're close enough the turret can't target you. Now a mech can not only bring it's arm mounted weapon to bear, but it can kick you as well.

If you have a rigger with the right gear he can even have 4 meat world Initiative passes and a fifth matrix one. So for the first 4 IPs he shoots the shit out of you with his guns (heavy laser and gauss guns) and then he hits your network with the agents that he has set up.


Edit: Just thought of something... think cyber zombie with even heavier guns and heavier armor. Name for me a zombie config that can carry a laser cannon (one arm), gauss rifle (other arm), grenade launcher (one shoulder) AND multiple missile launchers (other shoulder)... AND has the ability to fire them ALL (slave the grenades and missiles to an agent) at the same time.

Errr if your close enough to a tank that the main gun can't transverse to target you the tank will either kill you with secondaries or run you over or, god forbid, put some distance between you and it to get the main gun on you. Honestly the bipedal form really isn't what you make it out to be.

Stop Right There.

Real Life Physics does not apply to Game Physics. Turret rotation speed doesn't mean squat. Power sources don't mean squat. Arm weapons don't even mean squat either, because shadowrun treats mechanical limbs with a strength = body+0. No extra damage, no AP.

Seriously. +1 handling does not break shadowrun in any way. The half-Speed from walker mode hurts even worse. The -important- benefit is that you get to use your Speed as your Movement rate - its your reasonable, top-end speed for someone who's using their legs. (also, supported by the cyborg rules, which do this automatically.)

If you want to argue something's Gamebreaking, break out arsenal, and use your stats. I'm going to go with the Dodge Guardian, since it seems about right - decent armor, decent body, gunmount, and a speed of 50 seems to be about right for a tactical stompy robot game.

This isn't a 'how unrealistic are mechs' discussion. They are. We all know this. Tanks do it better in pretty much every way, and this topic's been debated to death across half the internet many times before. The topic is 'how to stat it in shadowrun.' So get to it.

That's not really what he asked, so you can drop the scolding tone. He asked about the section that makes mechs and we said there wasn't one and why we figured there isn't (and probably shouldn't) be one, particularly since it's mostly a fluff thing relative to other vehicle types and doesn't really warrant its own rules. Closest he can come is the Walker Mode modification listed in Arsenal, which is a pretty decent mobility upgrade for drones with a low enough Body. Otherwise he's stuck homebrewing things like the rest of us.

Yup, pretty much.

And my home-brew-fu sucks for SR.

I can home-brew the crap out of Exalted and the old World of Darkness, but they are like a guttering candle compared to SR.

Yeah, I'd say just go ahead and take something nice and durable as a guideline (A Citymaster, perhaps?) and try not to kill too many of your players all at once.

When it comes to Big Bads like rigged vehicles, all you really need to know is the Rigger's dicepools, the DV of the weaponry it sports and Armor/Body numbers to keep yourself honest if the players come up with a way of actually hurting the darn thing. Nobody really has to know whether the thing's top speed was really all that high or if the Rigger was just that good, after all. Plus, such a monstrosity won't fit easily in most buildings to begin with, so whether it could navigate hypothetical mecha-sized stairs is likely irrelevant.