I really should wait until I gather a bigger list...

What is an estimated world population in 2072?

In the SINless "areas" of a Sprawl, what is the basic way squatters/low-lifers get access (even limited) to power/water? To be specific, I'll be starting a campaign soon in the Norfolk area. We have a nuc plant in Surry that I'm certain will have even more lovely reactors in 2072 to spit out the watts, but how does that power get to folks that aren't allowed to get utilities? Do these communities have literally tens of thousands of rigged solar collectors that gangs protect?

A more specific question regarding the Matrix (nodes). An early adventure will call for the PCs to infiltrate a cargo ship at sea. Now I know all the peripheral devices on the ship each have a node, but is reasonable that big things like ships or apartment buildings have a node to cover things like killing all the power to a building (with the proper access, of course)?

I can't offer you a canon figure as to population in 2072, but: The first VITAS outbreak in 2010 killed off a quarter of humanity, and the second, in 2022, took out another 10%. Couple that with the lives lost in various wars around the world (Euro Wars, Second Ottoman Jihad, etc.) and add in the folks that died in the Ghost Dance, the L.A. and New York quakes, and other assorted catastrophes, and the figures are probably a fair bit lower than today's. Assuming the 2010 World Population is consistent with that of Shadowrun's alternate timeline, the losses from Vitas alone would put the world population in the neighborhood of 4.7 billion in 2022. I'd estimate it would be somewhere close to that in 2072 as well.

In regards to water and power, a lot of SINless communities will simply steal it. A good hacker or someone with the right contact at W&P (or the future equivalent) could probably get the resources diverted for a fee, or get any siphoning they may do "overlooked" by the bean-counters in City Hall. IIRC, certain underworld powers actually offer black-market utilities as a contract service.

Your Cargo Ship (and apartment buildings, etc.) would probably have a central maintenance node through which such things were monitored and controlled, unless the system was designed to specifically emphasize physical security over convenience. It might be slaved, hidden, and/or well-protected, but it would be there.

You didn't take into accout that orcs (and trolls?) procreate much faster than norms. Furthermore, given a timespan of 50 years and taking into account advances in medicine, I'd say its more like 10 billion.

Thanks so far! IIRC the world pop in the 1800s was ~1 billion, and 4 billion in 1975 and now almost 7. So with all the hits mitigated by higher meta birthrates and better medtech I was curious as to what folks felt was a reasonable regrowth rate. I know dystopian medtech is far from equal...makes me curious what a worldwide 2072 infant mortality rate is. Of course one is probably still better off having a baby in 2072 as opposed to 1900 *usually*.

Not really sure about the population figures. I see it as being not too dissimilar to today's figures though. Population bases tend to expand exponentially, if I recall correctly, and there are meta types that have higher birthrates as well. Opposing that is the death tolls from those VITAS outbreaks, wars, violence, as well as a fairly high mortality rate in poor areas. Also, it's hard to get accurate figures in the setting as so many people are SINless and not always counted properly. I would guess that the STATED figure is lower then today's population but when the SINless are taken into account it's probably about what our human population is today. Just my opinion though.

Whoops. The guess I gave for 2072 tried to account for other factors effecting the population (growth rate as well as all the other major "die-offs"), but I forgot to account for those damnable goblinized. Where my estimate was too conservative, I do think 10bil might be a bit liberal, but that's probably just my personal view of the gameworld. A crowded and resource-hungry population are a core element of any Cyberpunk setting, but I pictured that in Shadowrun as being largely concentrated in the urban areas, and outside of Arcologies, the sixth world has no shortages of forces that might work to help regulate population growth. To me there have always been elements to Shadowrun that are almost post-apocalyptic, at least in the third world (which includes impoverished urban settings like The Barrens), and I imagine the population in general wouldn't exactly be thriving.

As to medtech, most of the big advances in life-prolonging technology would really only be available to the upper echelons of society, a group that (in the modern world) has traditionally had the lowest birth rate.

Thing is that they die alot faster too. An 'old' orc is in his 30s. They're also much more prone to lessor living conditions which likewise leads to higher mortality rate. They state somewhere.. I think in Runners Companion, that the birth/death rates are pretty stable now. That's factoring in the 'litters' of orcs and what not.

with the plagues and what not and immense wars, natural disasters, and such, that the world population is a good bit lower than today. we're at about 6.5 or so. My shadow run world is about 4.5 or so.. but those 4.5 are ALOT more concentrated. There are fewer and fewer and fewer people living out side the citys. With awakened armadillows the size of blimps and such running around people aren't going to be flocking to rural areas. Couple that with 99% of the populations being kicked out of large areas of the US and what not, the population you do have is more concentrated. Most live in the sprawling super citys with those that didn't, flocking that way once your cat might awaken and turn into some sort of super critter, or a lobster might cut you in half.

Just started reading "Target: Awakened Lands" Come to find out that the entire interior of Australia is virtually unpopulated. Not that it was hugely populated before, but the manastorms have ENFORCED that, with just the Aborigines living there and a few salt and pepper scatterings dug in.

It depends. Some communities will have their own network, some will steal from their neighbors, some will have some kind of agreement with the neighbors or the company itself...

I look at it like this:
- SINless people are non-persons; they have no civil rights.
- SINless people may still have money.

So they don't get welfare, but that doesn't mean corporations aren't willing to sell them stuff; profit is profit. As for utilities, most of it will be illegal taps, perhaps with a bribe to a middle manager to overlook them.

Are the SINless really "people," though? Would I get in trouble if I went out to Barrens
and killed some SINless? Can I get away with selling SINless to Tanamous as if they
were just so much meat? Do police have an obligation to not just put a gun to a SINless
entities head and blow its brains out for fun?

For all legal purposes, SINless is "not a human being" in the Shadowrun world...

They're all but exactly the same as homeless people, illegal immigrants, or visiting foreign citizens today. If you go and kill one and anyone witnesses the murder, finds the body, and/or bothers to follow up on it, yes, you're ass is going to jail if convicted. Just because they're not citizens themselves doesn't mean you have the right to kill and murder them on a whim. It's like asking if it's okay to sit around and shoot anyone who only has an Ares SIN the moment they step foot outside of an Ares extraterritorial compound.


I have no idea where you came up with that nonsense.

I would disagree. There is a difference between not a human and not a citizen. SINner is to SINless as Citizen is non-Citizen. The divide may be further and officials may look the other way, but I imagine they would still be allotted some protections in the eyes of the law. It would be little different if I went around today killing illegal aliens, not a course of action I am advocating, I would still be tried for Murder.

Graywulfe

If it is reasonable to assume something is controlled centrally, then it is reasoable to assume there is a central control for it.

To stick with your examples: Every light in a modern apartment is a wireless device (power still comes via cable), all of these are normally part of the home management node. A large ship would probably have a seperate node controlling the lights (or maybe two, one for position lights and one for the deck floodlights), which can be accessed from the central bridge node.
Nodes are just a logicical grouping of certain functions, devices and data. You do not have to handle each device as a single node and different nodes can also share one device, for example the ship's mainframe.

If someone has an Ares SIN than he's not SINless by definition. Being SINless isn't equal to being a foreigner. I imagine illegal immigrants are the better example for SINless people.

If someone having an Ares SIN gets shot on UCAS territory it's very likely that Ares will ask some questions about it and see that the cuplrit gets found and sentenced. Now someone who doesn't own a SIN won't be missed by any SIN-issueing authority, and most likely there will be noone who has any interest in seeing the killer getting caught.

-CJ

Uh, it's exactly like killing a homeless person in the middle of the street, or a Canadian in the middle of a United States street, or any other myriad examples. Being homeless and/or lacking citizenship does not, in any way shape or form, equate to having no human rights. You don't get to kill any willy-nilly even in the Sixth World. Yes, killing a SINless person will likely be easier than killing someone with a SIN, but it is in no way legal or permissible. Seriously: Where are you guys coming up with this stuff?

There's a difference between an immigrant, legal or not, and a SINless. An (il)legal immigrant still has an identity somewhere. He has a country that could ask yours to do something about it (or could at least prove that such a person did exist). The SINless don't.
It doesn't mean that they won't get any human right... but nobody (at leasy no powerful enough entity) will force a government to make sure they're respected.

Let's put it this way: If being SINless meant people could do whatever they wanted to you without consequence, the SINless would be out there commiting petty crimes in order to get a Criiminal SIN or just registering for a SIN. It's not like it's hard to get one if you want one. Especially after the Crash of '64 -- they had huge "SIN amnesty programs" that let people "re"register with no questions asked, even those who couldn't prove that they were "upstanding" citizens. Which, apparently, is the only thing that holds people back from getting one normally. I'm also not exactly sure how just buying a fake SIN and building it up to a reputable one over the years is all that difficult if it really is all that difficult to get one. Especially since, if caught, you're just going to get a Criminal SIN in its stead unless you're some kind of notorious pain in the ass to law enforcement.

I would have to agree with the few other posts. Killing anyone, SIN or not, is going to be punishable. I would also imagine that there are special interest groups that would pursue anyone that decided to make sport of taking out SINless for sport, especially if it were police doing it. Oh man, that would be a media storm. Of course, said special interest groups would have their own agenda. It is Shadowrun, after all! The special interest group is probably protecting the SINless because they themselves farm the homeless/SINless for medical research.

A SINless remains for lgal purposes an human being - albeit and unidentified one. You don't need to formally identfy the victim to prosecute a crime. Say thecops find several unditified corpses inyour basement, all killed with weapons that are demonstrably in your possession. Even if the victims remains unidentified, you'll get the same sentence.

Whre the diffrence lays is that a SINless can't claim legal benefits and can't engage in activities where having a SIN is mandated by law. It doesn't mean they're no longer recognized as human beings and can be used and abused any way one sees fit without the law beign able to have any say on it. The law still has the right and ability to preoinvestigate and prosecute for crimes commited against SINless, it's just that sicne they don't vote, don't have a legal statut and little in the way of money or influence, they usually won't bother.