I'm coming up with a Macguffin for a campaign, which is the bioware equivalent of a skillwire. The way I see it, high-level corpers love bioware because it's expensive and not as obvious, and would want something like a skillwire without getting cybered. (It IS a lot of Essence) So, in step Innatech (made up corp), with the Skillworm! I thought a symbiont would be a good idea, but I don't understand the difference between Leech Ectosymbionts and Endosymbionts. I'm guessing the latter is internal while leeches are external?

So here's what I'm asking for. A bit of fluff on how it works, or where it would be implanted. I'm thinking it should only be available for individual skills, so you'd have a Pistols Skillworm, or a Con Skillworm. I'm just not sure what rating you should get the skill at. I was also thinking Prices, Availability and Essence Costs of 50,000¥, 24 and 0.5, respectively.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

If you go the symbionte route, stat it like all symbionts:
That means essence cost 0.2, but no grades available… and of course the risk that the symbiont will go parasite. Availability and price seem fine.
To establish the organic nature, it should have the equivalent of a DIMAP option by default and as it's customized for the user anyway, the Customization option as well (And you really should check the negative options for skillsofts for those nasty surprises…)

As for the "not for the squeamish" part… this is. Definitively:
A worm-thing attaching itself to your spine and brain, feeding you knowledge. Which makes it awesome.

If it's a leech, it would be attached to the back of the vic… err, users head and its back.
If it's an endosonte, it would do the same, just inside. Think the less abitious brother of a Goa'uld.

Hmm, one Symbiont per Skill?
Also, at what level would the symbion grant the skill?

That's what I was wondering. Maybe Rating?

Also, Rotbart, the 0.5 Essence was meant to imply that this is more than a worm that crawled in your ear, maybe it requires some manual modification to the brain to link it up. Also, what negative options for skillsofts?

More importantly, HOW would the symbiont grant the skill?

Now THAT would be squick . . feral skillworms crawling into your ear, hooking up to your brain, and you wake up with skills like sewing . .

Sure – just add the skillsoft cost.

Any symbionte-tech is more than just a worm in your ear and has a neural connection to it's host… and the "no grades" part makes it costly in essence compared to higher grade skillwires.

See Unwired – Limitation comes to mind.

I think that because skillsofts aren't permanent, maybe the skillworm would require some chemical to activate similar to false front. This could be administered with auto-injector or chemical gland. Sound good?

Normal symbiontes already can be "activated" & "controlled" by the host through the neural connection.

First rule for new stuff: Use old stuff for reference. Stick to the normal rules for symbiontes.

This is a really good idea.

Perhaps the symbiote interacts with the user's Central Nervous System, and has been specifically grown to activate certain neural pathways that are commonly used for the provided skill.

One symbiote per skill, higher rating symbiotes are more expensive to grow (rating 1-4), so perhaps tie availability and price into rating.

That's what I'm asking.

Basically by being a specialized outboard brain which is solely dedicated to motorcontrol/reflexes/movement for a single skill?

Or, with a thought, switch muscle control over to the worm, which responds to your thoughts. So the worm acts as an intermediary between your brain and body.

Nah – that's for the early parasitic stage. In the later stages…

Here's what I've got so far. In my campaign, it's not immediately available to PCs.

Innatech Skillworm
The Skillworm is an endosymbiont mostly consisting of cloned brain matter
from a donor who possessed a certain skill. It counts as a skill equal to it's
rating, which is chosen prior to implantation. Critical glitches during any
tests the skill is used in will cause the endosont to go parasitic, following
the normal rules for parasitic symbionts.

Endosont Essence Availability Cost
Skillworm (R 1-4) 0.2 24 30,000¥ + (Rating x 5000¥)

At least, that's what they tell you…

Wait. How does a clone possibly have a skill (even if his doner did)? Clones aren't photocopies.

This was my suggestion in the other thread you created about this topic. I was wondering why it seemingly disappeared!

Same here - skills have very little genetics involved. Using the symbiot concept, I'd see at most an increase to some categories of skill, something akin to the reflex recorder.

And such a systems also lacks the skillwire's flexibility - you can basically change the skillset in a matter of seconds. And with optimize software, you don't even need a top notch skilliwre to reap teh benefits, which makes it realtively essence-firendly especially in th beter grades.

Lastly, I'd be wary of some genemoded parasite tampering with my brain. There's a siginifcant potential for very unpleasant problems. Skillwires and skillsofts are compltely proven tech, with an excellent track record of fiability.

I don't see how modifying someone's genes (via a genetic infusion) would give them access to a skill, temporarily.

Now, a symbiote that was trained to excite certain neural pathways when "activated"...

Maybe don't go with the clone, but just grow/train them. I could see the research into it being something like:

1) Find some people with the skill
2) Measure their CNS activity while using that skill
3) Find some symbiotes
4) Train them to mimic that same activity when activated
5) Test and refine

Naaah – it's not like it is made from the brain of some poor guy.
And it's totally impossible for personality fragements taking over when the symbiont would go parasitic.
Not that symbionts would ever go parasitic. Its totally safe.

Considering that the things is supposed to be marketed toward the rich and famous (and snobish), you'll need a damn good safety record. It's a market where you can't afford troubles. A lobotomized exec is going to cost you a bundle, even you you manage an amiable transaction rather than a lawsuit.

And the system will still lack the convenience of the skillwire - say you're in the middle of Africa and decide to add some bow-hunting experience to your safari. Pop that satelitte uplink from the car and you can download soem archery skillsoft. No need to get bakc to a clinic for an extra symbiot. At this level of clientele, the customer is used to gets whatver he wants at a snap of the fingers. They've beter uss fr their tie than waiting for delivery...

What I'd rather see for such a market would be a metabolic optimizer - something that decreases your need for sleep, boosts your energy, regulate your metabolism against wegiht gain and helps healing. Maybe toss in an ability to slow down aging to boot, roll all that into one single convienent symbiot package and you'll have a winner that's going to appeal to the high and mighty.

I don't see why anyone would be stupid enough to take this implant. There's absolutely no benefits to it whatsoever.

Skillwires are cheaper, more Essence friendly, completely and utterly 100% legal, more versatile, and more powerful. There's not even a need to come up with a bioware alternative because of how legal, cheap, and versatile it is.

Yeah, that's the problem with symbiontes in general: They are simply too dangerous and creepy. Add in custom & costly and you got a failure.

IMHO, they should have gone the same route as genetic infusions – cheap boosts for everyone desperate enough. Some backstreet vat-fab churning out things that'll improve you by crawling under your skin…

Okay lot of issues here. I'll try and deal with them all.

One skill per symbiont: Yes, it's limited. This is a prototype Macguffin the PCs are gonna steal for some other corp to improve. Also, not everyone needs another 3 combat skills cos they spent all their BP on attributes and nuyen. This is designed and marketed for the exec who wants to show off his incredible shooting skills without spending however long learning it or get skillwire, seeing as cyber is unpopular.

Cloned brain matter: My fault, I meant cultured. I basically see it as some guy with the skill kindly donated his brain matter to be engineered into an endosont. It's basically shoving someone's skill into your brain, with the symbiont acting as an interface.

Skillwires are better: With skillwires, you don't learn. You have the skill for as long as you slot the soft, but if you want the skill, you have to spend Karma. I think the Skillworm should somehow bypass this. Maybe you can learn more of a skill after having a skillworm implanted but at increased Karma cost.

No, not learning – Edge.
As it is written right now, nothing prohibits full use of Edge with Skillworms.

If say skill worm where made as a combo of a symbiont that then you infuse via chemicals to provide X skill this proses would take some time and require a not cheap custom infusion per retraining. Say rating amount of infuse at a time keep rating 1-3 and the infusions have there own rating that is skill lvl. However while relearning a skill the symbiont is off line. Say you have a clean Rating 2 "skillbiont" you give it locksmithing at 6. It tkae say 2 hours to reform its self to provided the skill. Then later you get hold of Piolt ground craft at 3 this takes 1 hour to apply to the "skillbiont" in witch time it can be used for locksmithing.

Cyber isn't unpopular. Cyber eyes are the single most popular enhancement out there, even for the wealthy. There's a special executive-style cyberware suite. That's because this stuff still does a job that bioware can't do well (or at all), and has been around long enough to be recognized as safe and accepted by sociaty.
What's unpopular is bodyware, particularly visible implants that do a job that bioware can mimic with less effect on your appearance and health.

To me, this "skillworm" sounds like an over-grown reflex recorder, one that gives you a skill you never had. Don't think its an ideal way to implement the tech (skillwires work great and have been around a long time) but it could appeal to those unfortunate people who have trouble with simsense, for example.

One problem I have with the parasitic rule is that higher rating Skillworms would be LESS likely to go parasitic (since bigger dice pools mean fewer glitches). I'd apply the "Gremlins" effect for this purpose, at a rating equal to the skill rating. So if you had a rating 4 skill from a skillworm, you'd effectively add 4 1's to the results rolled, to determine if a glitch caused the worm to go parasitic. This wouldn't affect use of the skill, just whether the worm acts up.
Of course, if its just a McGuffin, such effects don't really matter... the players just get told its unhealthy to use, and anybody who uses it gets sick when and how the GM wants.

I think both. The use of Edge was what I intended. I just like the idea of having a skill implanted with less Karma requirement. Maybe it should place more restriction on other augmentations, like weapon mounts for vehicles. Maybe it should have little Essence Cost as a symbiont, but the size of the endosont in the brain could lead to headaches and various associated problems one experiences when one has something LIVING IN YOUR HEAD. I'd say you get the skill at whatever Rating for the cost of (Rating) Karma, while additional Karma improvements are either impossible, or increased cost.

Aside from the squick-factor, you only get problems if the symbiont gets decidedly unhappy about something.
But that's the same with all bio and cyberware. And i guess to a lesser extent even with gen/nano-ware too.
As an Aside, your brain is pretty resilent due to not being used for much in most cases anyway.
If i am remembering this right, the average usage of grey matter is at about 11% of what's available today.
Also, remember there are people who lived after having had a knife stuck into their head.
And people living with half a brain too. Can't be that much worse to have a small eel in there.
Especially not in comparsion to drilling holes into your head and cramming electronics in there . .
Think about the kinda ruckus made today about electro smog and cellphone usage close to the brain . .
And now you're putting something in there that has a capacity of putting out a signal to several kilometers?
And people are complaining about a small, intended to be benevolent little guest in there? O.o

Except this is a full brain, with an additional small eel, taking in oxygen and nutrients from blood, all needed for your brain. Without a steady flow, you faint. Try holding your breath for a few minutes. Maybe strenuous use or (critical) glitches should do (Rating) stun damage?

This would be the case with all neural bioware too. Not too much of a difference i'd say O.o

To ease some information here, I need to clarify a few things:

1.) Gerey matter is a particular type of brain tissue that provides the main "flexibility". You could understand it as a laceholder. Whenever new task areas are developed, whenever new neural pathways are formed, gray matter is "used up". By the age of 21 your average human has used up about 90% of its available grey matter and the rate of consumption drops significantly. That is one of the main reasons, why learning becomes more difficult for humans past the age of 21. On its own, grey matter has no cognitive abilities. It doesn't compute anything. It doesn't translate anything. Having grey mattermeans new areas and neural pathways can be formed. That is especially important in the case of lesions, where the brain can circumvent the damaged ares, by forming new ones or overtaking old ones.

2.) The ability of the brain to survive substantial damage (see Broca's and Wernicke's patients) comes from the brains ability to adapt (partially due to grey matter). The damage areas, when nescessary, are transfered over to lesser used or less important areas, replacing them. The functionality these former areas provided is lost. Damages to the cortex are usually significantly less severe than damages to the midbrain or brainstem. In no ciscumstance, however, are those damages without effect. Usually very severe effects. aphasia comes to mind, as do visual impairments and migraines. Also, loss of motor functions is not uncommon, especially when the damages are in the parietal or temporal lobes. Damage to the occipital lobe in particular would result in visual impairments, often blindness. Since the symbiont in the question in this thread was described to sit at the back of the head, it is plausible to assume potential visual impairments. I would recommend positioning it at the brainstem to avoid that.
That said: people who suffered major lesions are usually unable to continue functioning. rare cases, like gunshot wounds that took half the cortex off, where the suspect survived seem incredible, but as long as only the cortex is affected, they are expected. The patient will have significant cognitive impariments to deal with, though.

3.) People live even with two brains. Split-brain patients are a testament to that fact.

As two people don't they? Like the women who had her brain cut down the hemispheres and tried to put two shirts on with each arm? Thanks for posting this, I've always found the brain fascinating.

They do indeed develop individual personalities for each hemisphere once the corpus callosum is severed. They rarely differ much from each other, though.

I've been following this thread, and I really didn't want to divert it frivolously, but I've finally got to ask-- is this a nod to Office Space?

I'm afraid not, I've never heard of it. It came to me when I should have been listening to my Psychology teacher, and made me think of skillware: Innate Technology, Innatech, it works for me. Feel free to divert with extreme frivolity, I've got what I need.