Was putting together a list of dragons that might have interest in Seattle or been involved there in the past. Besides at least one having been killed, Haesslich I've come up with Arleesh, Geyswain, Perianwyr and Eliohann. Have I missed any from past or current products?

Two of those are dead, IIRC.

Haesslich is; I was the one who created his 6th World Wiki page (though it and a few others have undergone heavy renovation since then, and I think one was deleted--yeah, Katherine Hart's).
Eliohann also died during Crash 2.0 (only dragon with a datajack).

But isn's Perianwyr in Denver?

What was Harts Dragons name? I know it was feathered. Haven't read that in a long while.
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NM found it Tessien.

After receiving Dunkelzahn's impressive musical collection, and after Kyle Morgan couldn't be found on the face of the earth (the history didn't say much), Perianwyr moved out of Seattle and built a club. Do a search on the web for more details. I think I recall a Wiki on the subject.

Yeah, his page got deleted too.



I think it was because I glanced over his wiki briefly and saw "Denver" that I said anything.

Wasn't Kyle Morgan killed? Body taken away by Perianwyr?

Seattle 2072 very strongly hints at Perianwyr's presence; in the intro story for Puyallup a "Peri" is mentioned, and Underworld 93 is said to have a dragon behind it. Doesn't mean he lives there.

Pen is based in Denver now per Dragons of the Sixth world, he lives there under the protections of Ghostwalker the all-knowing all-doing super dragon.

Kyle Morgan died when the plane he was in got blowed up real good. The implication was that someone (who remains unidentified) wanted his title as the number 1 assasin and knocked him off to get it.

I can't believe I remembered that little bit of shadowtalk. I wonder if I'm remembering it right.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Wait! Wasn't Kyle Morgan the guy from that old Adventure 'Mercurial'? Or am I thinking Dragon Hunt? I can't remember and I'm slacking too hard to go all the way to my shelf.

Peri is also used to refer to Fastjacks daughter IIRC.

Yep Mecurial and per the adventure probably ended up dieing at the end. Although I think there was an option to have the dragon fly off with his body and (its been a long time since read it) I think there was an instance in the adventure that allowed you to bring back another npc even if killed. This sort of implied Peri could bring them back?

Edit: I went back and looked must have been another book that referenced bringing the npc back even if killed earlier in the adventure, now I'm not seeing it.

Wasn't Kyle Morgan (and Perianwyr) also in Killing Glare?

Yes.
Was Killing Glare before Mecurial? Been so long since those came out.

Anyway, in Seattle 2072 there's first some fiction about a guy doing bussiness connected with someone called "Peri", connected with Underworld 93. Then in the description of Underworld 93 there's mention that there's a dragon involved as a silent partner. IIRC Perianwyr was the music-oriented dragon. It seems pretty clear-cut to me.

On what premise? There are worse NPC in canon fiction. Admittedly not THAT many, but there you go. Twisty Twist the most totem breaking favourite of Dog ever, for instance. He'd have lost his magic over dumping Sally as he did (or his wife), violating his Totem's rules, if he had been played in my game. Kham the Ork also comes to mind. Kauft nicht beim Elfen!

Oh, and Machiko of the Green Serpent Guard. Oh, Machiko. Makes my brain bleed just thinking of her.

So anyway, why delete Kath Hart?

As well as Peregrine from Arcology Shutdown, i believe.

I don't know. Only that I wrote the pages and that there is no record of their creation.

That's pretty stupid, but then again, it's a wiki, so such stupidity is to be expected.

Peri (one 'r') is used to refer to the dragon. Perri (two 'r's) is used for FastJack's daughter (at least how HE refers to her... it's shown that at least up to Crash 2.0 she liked to change her name/handle on an almost monthly basis). And as far as I recall, Peregrine from the Arcology Resistance never used a shortened form.

She uses it to refer to herself as "Perri Matthews" in Renraku Arcology Shutdown. But that's about it.

Damon (or is it Damian?) the thrill seeking dragon is/was active in Seattle for atleast abit IIRC.

Is that the shadowrunning dragon?

Car racing, building climbing, adreneline junkie dragon yes, shadowrunning not sure. Here's some fiction about him though. http://www.shadowrun4.com/fiction/fiction4_turnabout.shtml

Yep just in case someone felt that the setting was lacking a certified Mary Sue dragon.

Man DOtSW was such a mixed bag.

I kinda liked that story actually. It's a fun GM prank.

I'm sorry if i pulled that on one of my players one of the following things would occur:

1) They'd kill it (Adult dragons really are not that tough for a group of seasoned shadowrunners obviously this group wasn't necessarily that.

2) I'd be a dick for randomly throwing green runners at the Mary Sue dragon.

1) Would they fight it without talking first? In that case at least several PCs should end up dead.

- Dragons always have some contingency plan; those that spend their days in human shape probably have some sustained/quickened spells to protect their more fragile bodies. The naked stats in the book aren't everything the beast has. That's like talking about how a street sam is soft if you take away his equipment and implants.
- Dragons are quite capable of having several powerful bound spirits at the ready.

PCs who rush forward, blindly trusting they can destroy the enemy, should expect heavy losses of their own. After all, in a glass cannon game, being able to destroy an enemy in no way guarantees survival.

Also, it'd be dubious RPing at best. I mean, you're surprised by a dragon!

2) It's being a dick if they're meant to fight it. In this case, the dragon was the "real" Johnson, the PCs just didn't know it when the "fake" Johnson hired them. They ended up doing the same mission but against a different target.

I see the story as a way to make a fairly simple run much more memorable, not as a Dragon Fight.

So wait, your shadowrunners play in a world where they figure out that they've invaded a dragons lair and expect it to let them live? Expect to deal with it and come out as anything but slaves? You think such an encounter is a funny GM pranki?

Basically if i'm breaking into a place and I see someone there who isn't supposed to be and subtelty is a non issue I will move to disable, if disabling fails I will escalate violence or run.

I guess I'm looking at this from three roles A) As a player I'd be a bit miffed at running into an all powerful plot device on a milk run B) As a storyteller it would speak poorly of me if I didn't give Damon a very compelling reason for not droping the intruders in his home and then figuring out what they were up to by questioning survivors C) As a GM if i wanted to achieve such an encounter i'd be doing them a disservice by using a dragon (which again, there is a large gulf between adult dragons and Great Dragons). It's too much pre-defined conclusion

It looks like we have different standards about what is "fair" towards players. I think you can do some screwing in the interests of setting up a cool story; in fact, Shadowrun is full of that kind of thing.

A) If it looks like a milk run, I expect trouble; if it looks hard it just might be what it looks like. Nothing should ever be easy.
B) Just because he's a dragon doesn't mean he eats everyone who enters his apartment. If there's a sneakier, convoluted way to use the intruders as a resource, he can do so. In this case, to get free runners against an enemy, figure out who his enemy was, and send said enemy a good warning.
C) Like I said, concepts of what is fair; I don't think I have to be fair to the characters at all. It'd be unfair to the players not to give them a fun story. But they could have more fun; trashing an apartment is funny, but taking revenge on a Johnson who screwed your PCs is more fun.

In my Vampire campaign I've often had enemies do nasty things to the PCs; the players were a bit annoyed, but when they got an opportunity for revenge, it was far more satisfying, which was exactly the goal.

Like Vampire, and unlike D&D, there's no assumption that all your enemies can or should be fought; the world isn't divided in challenge-rating areas.

(Also, how would the PCs know if it was an adult or ancient dragon? Also, would they really know the stats of an adult dragon well enough to know if they could beat it? Only very experienced characters maybe, but it smells a lot of metagaming.)

Totally agree I just think we differ on what constitutes a cool story. I'll try and elucidate my point better.

If it was easy they would have sent someone else, however there comes a point when players should have reasonable expectations for what kind of mission their on. If your throwing "A suprise twist!" at them every mission the suprise will wear very thin quickly.

Maybe, maybe this adult dragon who lives alone and major notable position is being an adrenaline junky is set up for that kind of behavior, it still doesn't seem like the logical set of steps for him or the runners.

You mean the dragon right? Because that's who the characters are being screwed by in this instance.



Your right this is shadowrun, the assumption is, quite counter to DnD and Vampire that anyone can be killed even if the PC's aren't necessarily in that league, the Great Dragons are a higher tier then most but until very recently they could be brought down if they started directly playing out in the world. That's one of the reason I hate Ghostwalker so much, here's a dragon that pisses on all the North American military powers and then sticks around to dictate terms to them in the heart of Denver, but somehow doesn't get a thor shot dropped on him, because he's GHOSTWALKER the super cool uber dragon. Blech



When I say he's only a adult dragon I mean that should inform his decisions not necessarily the runners, an Adult dragon is very Killable by mortal means so Damian's casual air basically doesn't mesh and comes off as very Mary Sue to me.

But it's not a game run. It's a story. There's a difference.

The runners in the story are very green. They didn't do much research on their target and they are scared of even the mention of a dragon. They don't seem to know he's just an adult dragon; hell, they don't even seem to know anything about dragons, really. Only that they are scary, which is an understandable bias in the world of green runners, where "Never Deal with a Dragon" is part of the universal street motto. They do a lot of stupid things in the story, but not all runners are badass, especially the ones who are not the PCs and die anonymous deaths every day at the command of some suit.

And yes, Damon is a Mary Sue character in this story. It's basically a puff piece for Damon.

Yea i get that as a story it's guilty of a bit of Mary Sue and hardly the worst offender on that score. My complaint was with "It's a fun GM prank."

Who said anything about a surprise every mission?

This kind of twist is a great one to throw at people who "get" shadowrun (in that "not everything is there to be killed") but have very little experience playing the game itself.

Interestingly, over all the years that I have played Shadowrun, I have only ever been pitted against a Dragon twice...

And both times, the Dragons ended up dictating terms... Was I pissed off? As a player, not really, (as a character I expected to die so I had a pretty good attitude going) as I had instigated the situations in the first place...

The First dragon I met as a Human... he was our Johnson and it was a fairly moderate run... 50,000 Nuyen with 10,000 Nuyen in additional expenses up front... come the end of the run, it was a complete success and the money never materialized... so, I spent the next 350 Karma trying to track down this elusive Mr. Johnson, spending almost 400,000 nuyen in the process just to recoup that measly 50,000 Nuyen... it was the principle of the thing... I should get payed for my work... it wasn't until I actually found him that I realized I was in WAY over my head... at which point I was given a choice... do a job for him (infiltrate the Main Headquarters of Aztechnology and liberate an awakened Orchid), this time as an employee of his permanent retinue, or... well you get the other option I am sure... (This was in 2nd Edition)

The second dragon I met, Different Character, was in the culmination of story that had been going on for about 18 months of play... my character had just over 160 Karma, and I was feeling powerful... we inflitrated a facility to obtain some information to link the Bugs we had discovered with some new drug that was on the street... come to find out we had been played by a dragon for most of the 18 months, a little here and a little there, until we placed ourselves in a very untenable position... with 3/5ths of our team dead, and 2 critically wounded, he offered us a choice... work for him, and perform this very simple task (Invade a Hive and attempt to capture the queen) or... well you get the other option... (This was in 3rd Edition)

In my opinion... the use of the Dragons were inspired... it lent a scope to the game that you do not get to see very often (at least I do not get to see very often, in actual play anyways)... The machinations of a supremely powerful opponent, with a mission that has grave consequences, for more than just the characters... it was pretty exilirating... especially since I was able to complete both missions respectively... was not something that I would liek to continuously perform as a standard Mission, but they were a LOT of fun, and I still talk about them with the respective individuals that participated...

That being said... a Dragon McGuffin tends to get pretty lame if it occurs all the time...

Keep the Faith

I'm sorry for bringing it up... Was just trying to be helpful. :/

That is open to discourse, my main point of contention is that tripping over a dragon on a run isn't "a funny GM prank" but actually a fairly dick thing to do.

But then again I run a world where the employers betraying Shadowrunners is actually pretty rare as it's usually not cost effective to hack off armed mercenaries and when it happens it needs to be for more then monetary reasons.

I thought Shadowrunners were more street level than mercs? At least that's how I've always seem it run. Mercs were more professional and tended to have more defined roles, higher stakes and bigger toys. There is some overlap, but runners are "deniable assets" for a reason. I know that I never expect a run to be what it seems on the surface, and pretty much always assume that a Johnson would burn me as soon as look at me. Most of them are corporate after all, they must have had to remove someone to get the position they have now, there just isn't that much room at the top.

If the GM drops a dragon on us as a roleplaying situation that is totally classic SR. I agree doing it as a prank is lame, it should be a serious addition to the campaign and perhaps a sign that thing just got real. The more you screw around with dragons the less impact they have.

Well, that's getting into a few of the fundamental debates of Shadowrun: the professionalism level of the runners and the likelihood you'll be backstabbed by Mr. Johnson. The game supports a range of answers for both of those questions, intentionally. So it's not going to be something that can be definitively answered; what flies at your table might not be the standard at someone else's.

But to be fair, the runners were told Damon wouldn't be home. Mr. Johnson did conveniently leave out the fact that Damon was a dragon, but if he had mentioned it, he'd likely have to pay the runners more. And if things went belly-up and the runners became dragon food, well, they are deniable assets.

The stupid thing in the story is that the dragon was able to mind-read how the Johnson looked, and then deduce who the Johnson was. Not so deniable; the Johnson was stupid.

And they didn't do all of their homework.




If dragons can't show up in a ShadowRun game, then why are you playing? Sure, the defacto answer to "its a dragon" should be "run away" and in fact "run away so fast the guy who says, 'guys we should run' is left behind."

Dragons are supposed to be scary, unfightable, MoFos. There's a reason they're the only "Friend or Foe"* that has a listed Edge attribute. The only other time an NPC has Edge is if they're a Major, Re-occurring Plot Important NPC.

(If you missed the implication: Dragons are major, re-occurring plot important NPCs).

But it comes with a grain of salt: you shouldn't have too many. Having too many leads to a D&D issue where you have articles on How to Kill the Tarrasque at Level 13 or Lower or level 14 parties that can kill a Balor in one round, before the Balor (and minions) can act, using no expendable resources, and take no damage and do so with 100% reliability (this has happened to a GM I know, the party proved they could take a Balor and caused the next 38 Balors to get cutscened).

*Except spirits, which are temporary entities and don't qualify as full "character" status.

Yeah, that gets back into the Mary Sue nature of Damon in the story. The whole story was built to fall Damon's way.

On the other hand, sometimes people do stupid things. Johnsons make mistakes too. "Sending a warning" to a dragon is pretty foolish.

Well it's entirely possible that the J wasn't aware his opponent was a dragon.