Ok, so electronic nanopaste and such are incredible, but they all require computers to use. SR4A p338 says that latex face masks and nanopaste disguises cost a flat amount, then the number of hits on a Computer + Edit test (max hits = Disguise skill) are a positive modifier to the following Disguise test, but that requires that a person fiddle with a computer-thing to put makeup on. There are chemical cosmetics in Arsenal, but they're not really cosmetics, they're just gels that had DMSO applied to hold another chemical of the user's choice.

You can buy a kit for building and repairing things and the kit gives... a bonus of some sort, "+1 or more". Shouldn't there be something like this for other skills like Disguise? For instance, a rating 1 disguise kit might be like http://www.stagemakeuponline.com/02-PK/Per...ts-Ben-Nye.html while a rating 6 makeup kit would look something like: http://gifts.barnesandnoble.com/search/pro...t-_-89241145497 but with softer eyeliner pencils instead of harder colored pencils and several types of foundations and creams instead of watercolors and, well, I guess the oil paints would stay roughly the same... anyway, you get the idea.

I think that the game assumes that you have stuff like makeup or a hat or false beard or something when disguising in the first place. I mean you can't just hunch up a bit and screw up your face and poof you're disguised.

You could maybe add a professional makeup kit like they use for movies to add a +1 (And should take a couple hours to apply properly, or only be usable on other people), but I wouldn't go beyond that considering that the masks don't give particularly large bonuses for something that will literally change your face.

Only usable on other people? That's what mirrors were invented for. Actors don't apply their own makeup because the makeup artists are artists and generally have higher makeup skills than the actors (not to mention, an actor can just sit back and let someone else do the work).

Presuming that you're a wiz at computers, you can essentially double your Disguise skill, but why should computers be required to put makeup on? I just don't see the vast cadre of makeup artists who are perhaps more creative than they are logical ever disappearing.completely -- I don't see society ever getting to a point (even in 2075) where only the best hackers are the best makeup artists. I mean, take a look at these people:
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/2119696
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/2590631

Should PCs get all this for free: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTWiNf0Djhg

Yeah, I know about mirrors, but there are some angles that are really hard to get, and of course it is truly difficult to put anything on your eyelids while your eyes are closed. Also, I can only imagine it is easier to put makeup on someone else than on yourself.

If you want to make a +1 - +6 makeup kit (which makes the latex/nanopaste mask useless) you can, not a big deal, just keep in mind that a latex mask is generally going to get you 2-3 extra dice and requires a whole other skill. That's more the reason I suggested only +1 more than because makeup can't be good. I'd imagine you're seeing alot more 'really high skill' than 'really awesome bonus from makeup' in those pictures/movie.


No, but instead of providing a bonus for having makeup, I think it would be much more appropriate to apply a penalty for not having makeup, ala the 'improper tools' penalty, and maybe if you have a really good makeup kit you get a small (+1 for good tools maybe) bonus to disguise.

Remember that disguise covers more than just making yourself look different, there is alot as far as faking over covering mannerisms, accents, tone, posture, etc.

I think I'll just have it work like a medkit. At rating 6, it can likely be used well enough for two successes. If you have the skill and the attribute maxed, though, then you triple the effectiveness of the kit (and can likely get six successes total, so that everyone and his brother don't see through the makeup, which seems in line with normal movie makeup).

I like the improper/excellent tools setup.

Thanks. Main reason I don't like using the medkit rules is because I don't like the medkit rules. Basically with a good medkit (which costs next to nothing), joe blow becomes almost as effective as the world's best medics working with a basic medkit.

And if you play an Estein kind of character (Logic 7) like I do, you can pretty much skip First Aid

A medkit is amazing in the hands of a dunce (7 dice, about two successes), but a world-class medic with a specialty triples the effectiveness of a medkit (20 dice, six successes). Even if you have Logic 7 with a rating six medkit, if you increase your First Aid skill up to 6 and grab a speciality, then you'll increase the effectiveness of a medkit by almost half as much again (from 13 dice or 4 successes to 21 dice or seven successes). A medkit (and the First Aid skill) can only be used once for any given wound (and not after magical healing, which can also only be used once) then you just have to wait for natural healing to occur. It's worth just slapping a stim patch to keep going or a trauma patch (or a tranq patch and get carried out) then waiting to use the medkit until someone with actual First Aid can use it, because shadowrunners usually can't afford the downtime to wait for their wounds to recover (and those wound penalties can kill you).

In other words, a medkit all alone is useful, it can probably cure two boxes. That's great, but if you have a wound modifier it's not even going to cure you all the way. A medkit in the hands of a truly skilled person can about bring you back from almost dead to fully cured. In every Shadowrun game that I've been in, although every character carries a medkit just in case they're stranded out in the middle of nowhere by themselves and dying, nobody ever uses a medkit when they have the option of waiting for someone who's skilled to use it.

But I digress. This is about makeup kits, not medkits.

This just made me think that the best way to damage people next to healing mages is to attack them and then have your mage heal them (assuming you multicast or something to reduce dice pool).

I use the standard kit cost (500 nuyen) for a deluxe makeup kit.

Just as a sidenote though... the threshold for First aid is 2, so you need at least 3+ hits to heal anything at all...

Sorry... Back to our regularly scheduled Topic...

Keep the Faith

Where's this listed?

Tools, Page 332 of the SR4A book...

We use the same rule (For those who actually purchase such things)... it is actually quite useful... there are all sorts of tools that can fall into this category of purchase, makeup kits are just one of them...

Keep the Faith