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Comely
Hey I am making my second Shadowrun character ever and I wanted some feedback on how I might improve him. I am missing a spell casting specilization but I figure I will buy that will Karma that and some extra spells. My only worry with this character is that I tried to do to much, he will talk ok, fight ok, tank ok but wont be fabulous in anything.

Metatype : Ork
Mystical Adept
Body: 7
Agility: 4
Reaction: 5
Strength: 3
Charisma: 4
Intuition: 3
Logic: 1
Willpower: 5

Edge: 1
Magic: 5
Initiative: 8
Essence: 6

English : N
Biology : 3
Security Procedures : 3
Corporate Politics : 3
Medical Background : 3

Restricted Gear
Mentor Spirit (Bear)

Aspected Magician
SINner
Sensitive System
Records on File

Influence (group) : 4
Dodge : 4
Automatics : 5
Counterspelling : 4
Spellcasting : 5
Percaption : 2

Power Focus (Rating 4)
25k of other equipment

Increase Reflexes
Heal

Attribute Boost - Agility (Level 1)
Commanding Voice
Combat Sense (Level 3)
Heightened Concentration

Ex Con (L:1 C:2)
Corporate Military Head (L:4 C:6)
Karoline
Consider getting some bioware. Rating 2 muscle toner would give you +2 agi and only cost you 1 point of magic while still leaving you with .6 essence to think about other fun things.

Oh, you also forgot to get perception. Some contacts with vision enhancement 3 and earbuds with audio enhancement 3 and select sound filters would also be very helpful.

I'll post more later if everyone else hasn't helped you out enough yet, bed for now.
Comely
True but for the +2 Agility I would lose 2 dodge dice so Im unsure on it plus the extra build points for the money. Ahh perception I will find some way to get that in thanks.
Patrick the Gnome
Do you actually have each skill in the Influence group at level 4 or did you just write each part out? Also, ork is ok as a mystic adept but really, dwarf is better. You get a worse body, but your willpower gets a bonus and you lose the penalty to your other mental stats, and drain is the big thing you have to worry about with casting spells as a mystic adept as your spell casting limit is based on your combined magic stat, not just what you designated for spellcasting. If you haven't picked a tradition yet, I would suggest a possession tradition (as I always do for mages that want to do physical things), and I would suggest automatics as a gun skill unless your concept demands pistols. If you want a mentor spirit I'd suggest bear, he seems to fit with your character concept. Spells that would be useful, Detect Life (almost as good as Radar when shooting through walls), Enhance Attribute, Mana Static (this will hurt you too but it will hurt enemy mages more), Armor, Combat Sense (it stacks with the adept power), or Physical Mask (always useful as a face). Adept powers that are nice, Heightened Concentration from Digital Grimoire is fucking amazing on mystic adepts as it ignores up to magic penalties from a single source (like sustaining penalties), Improved Ability is damn nice even on combat skills and can increase the bonuses of your pistols skill beyond the base 6, and Kinesics is nice if you want to do face things. Psyche (the drug) is also nice as it lowers sustaining penalties as well and has no real drawbacks, although you'd have to raise your Logic to avoid addiction.

EDIT: Ah, sorry, I see you already have a Bear mentor spirit.
Octopiii
The thing with mystic adepts is that you need to ask yourself what you're actually getting in return for giving up all access to the astral. What are those adept powers getting you that you can't get with ware/drugs/spells? Commanding Voice, for example, is great for faces, but so is the spell Influence. The thing about Magicians is that being able to astrally perceive/project can be pretty powerful. Especially when it seems like you plan on sustaining the spell Improved Reflexes, the fact that you can't perceive wards can really screw you.

Alternatively, what does spellcasting give you that you can't get with adept powers? Improved reflexes is nice, but you can pick up the adept power instead for the bonus ip and the bonus reaction. As it is now, you're using power points plus a very expensive focus to get that effect.

That's not to say Mystic adepts are useless. You just need to make sure you're getting enough bang for your buck. Here are some builds I made that took advantage of the unique synergies you can get by giving up astral access/power points. There are about 5 or so in that thread. Some of them may be a little rough for a new player to play, so ymmv.
Mantis
Do you actually have the specializations listed? If so I would suggest you dump them for a starting character. They cost 2 build points each which amounts to +1 in another skill or a new skill. If you buy them with karma later it is only 2 karma each, which is the equivalent of 1 build point each. Sure it is meta gaming but it is also efficient character building.
I guess your tradition is one that uses Charisma as it's drain stat. I'd drop one more point into logic since it determines how many foci you can have active at once. With a 1 logic you can only have 1 foci active at a time. What do you need more? Power foci or sustaining foci?
You have no conjuring skills at all. If you take Patrick's advice on the possession tradition (and I sure would) then you lose out on the main advantage, the ability to have spirits boost your physical abilities.
I know sensitive system seems like a good buy but you never know when you might want to upgrade your eyes or ears or something else that calls for cyberware and the increased essence cost can be a pain in the ass for an awakened character.
As Patrick pointed out, do something about that influence group of skills. Do you really need them all? You could drop them to a 3 and pick up a few points in conjuring.
What did you use Restricted gear for? The sustaining foci? Debatable as to whether that is worth while. This particular foci cost you 20 build points (5 for bonding, 5 for Restricted gear, and 10 for resources) It would only cost 10 karma to bond after game play and you could build your own by taking some of those 20 build points and putting them into Enchanting and Arcana. It takes time and some money but probably costs less in the long run. Also with a possession tradition you don't really need it anymore since the spirit will give you 2 IPs and boost all your physical stats by its force (up to racial augmented max of course)
Ok I suppose that's enough ripping apart....umm I mean suggestions for now. wink.gif
Dakka Dakka
I assume you use the Restricted Gear Quality for the Sustaining Focus. There is no additional benefit for Improved Reflexes at a Force greater than 4 so you wouldn't need a Force 5 Sustaining Focus.
If you have the cash take a Force 4 Power Focus instead.
Comely
No possesion allowed due to its general brokeness. Thinking more about the sustaining Focus I think I can drop that for heightened concentration which is great. I thought about making it into a social adept and taking two essense in cyber but I think I want to stick with my bear bodyguard. There is a full mage in the group so although I cant astrally sense the other mage can take care of that in about 50% of the situations it will matter. I rather like commanding voice but I dont need to be a full face but as no one other then the main face in the group can talk it is good to have at least a partial backup.

It is the influence group thats just the way the editor listed it. The sustaining focus was so that I could use it for reflexes and then switch it to improved charisma in social situations. The reason I am leaning towards staying as a mystic adept over cybered adept is that I can pick up more spells as I go so that I can have an answer for almost every situation by picking up more spells. Pistols arent required per say but I do like the akimbo thing. I did think about switching it to an automatic shotty.
Patrick the Gnome
Automatics is simply the best gun skill, and you don't really need a great skill to be effective with them if you use wide bursts. You should definetly nix the sustaining focus and either pick up a bigger power focus or just jump magic by 1. I again stress that the Heightened Concentration power of adepts is amazing if you can get your GM to go along with it, especially in conjunction with psyche. It costs a full essence point but it makes it so that you can maintain half you're magic in spells with no penalty. It's especially helpful with the Increased Attribute spell as getting a focus for that is near impossible and casting it at a high enough force to actually balance out the -2 sustaining penalty is tough as fuck. If you can't use Digital Grimoire then at least get Psyche, it will make self buffs so much easier.

Also, what is your character doing in combat? You probably should choose now whether he's going to focus on social skills or combat 'cause he can do just ok at both right now and specializing in one is going to penalize the other (although not to the point of unuseability).

EDIT: it will be much easier to go secondary face than secondary combat. Just sayin
Comely
If I'm specializing in one then its Combat, the face abilities only need to be above average really. I do want commanding voice though, I thought about dropping the skill group and grabbing just leadership but I can think of to many situations where con or negotiate will help.

Edited the above character some based off of suggestions
Patrick the Gnome
Specializing in combat, then definitely take automatics and get a customized gun, probably an autopistol (SnS rounds will be nice inside but I know some people have a problem with how broken those are). A big gun with APDS is fun for the serious fights you can get into, although you might just want to bother with that after chargen. Pick up a few more spells, I've already offered my suggestions as to which ones are nice. Commanding voice is fine to keep, it's a nice stun on your opponents for a round at least. Besides that, just get a few doses of Psyche, it doubles the effectiveness of Heightened Concentration and literally has no drawbacks except addiction.
Comely
New spells I will worry about with Karma, since this is a replacement character he is going to start with 50 so I have also been trying to avoid a few things that cost less then twice the build points in Karma, like the max level of attributes, specializations, spells are close but 3 to 5 didnt seem so bad.
Nifft
Here's my take...

First off, summoned spirits are awesome. I know you can't do everything, but with your drain stat being Charisma, you could have 3 bound spirits helping you in various ways, plus one unbound spirit. For example, a force 1 spirit using the Guard power could protect one person (you) from all glitches, for the price of 500 ¥ per run. A force 3 or 4 Spirit of Man could cast (and sustain) your reflex enhancing spell, for less than 1500 ¥ per run -- or for free, if he's your one unbound spirit.

Being able to summon & bind spirits makes your Power Focus twice as useful.

If you want to min/max your 50 karma, you should decide how many times you want to Initiate, and that will tell you how much karma you have left for other stuff. If you're using the Street Magic errata rule that you can take +1 adept power point as a metamagic, that would be a fine use for at least one of your Initiations.

For adept powers, personally I'd start out with Kinesics and Combat Sense, both rated as high as you can get them.

Regarding negative qualities, I personally hate Aspected Magician. It's far too high a penalty for the paltry points it grants. Sure, it's fine for role-playing purposes, but you could get the same effect by training only your "aspect" skill. It's a bad Quality, and should be avoided. Instead, take Incompetent (Banishing). Same point benefit, less crippling aftertaste. You could also take Incompetent (Ritual Spellcasting) for another +5.

When it comes to a mentor spirit, Bear is cool, but not great synergy with any of the things you want to do. IMHO you would get more mileage out of a mentor who enhances a social skill (like Trickster) or who grants a bonus to spellcasting and summoning/binding (like Great Mother from Street Magic). Another very nice mentor is Owl, who grants +2 Perception (and +2 Assensing if you ever dip into that), and +2 to Spirits of Man (one of the best kinds of spirit).

Regarding Karma vs. BP, you're right to want to focus on maxing out a few things rather than taking a little in a lot of things. Can you buy Qualities with karma? If so, you might want to leave your mentor spirit for later, when you can buy it for 10 karma.

Personally, I'd drop Dodge unless you have reason to suspect you'll be in melee combat often, and take Summoning instead.
augmentin
QUOTE (Octopiii @ May 5 2010, 12:25 AM) *
Here are some builds I made that took advantage of the unique synergies you can get by giving up astral access/power points.


These are fantastic! I especially love the magical rigger. Killing machine!

::Looks around to make sure no one in his group his here so he can shamelessly plagiarize the build::
augmentin
QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ May 4 2010, 11:38 PM) *
and drain is the big thing you have to worry about with casting spells as a mystic adept as your spell casting limit is based on your combined magic stat, not just what you designated for spellcasting.


Is that right? Have I been playing them wrong all along? Could you share the reference? Thanks so much!
Dakka Dakka
Contrary to the FAQ the rules say this:
QUOTE ('SR4A p. 195')
For every point of Magic invested in physical abilities, the character gets one Power Point that she can use to purchase adept powers. Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic-based skills. For all other purposes, including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers, the character’s full Magic attribute is used.
Patrick the Gnome
What kind of combat do you want your character to do? Will he be based around spells, guns, or melee combat? I think that the thing mystic adepts really excel at is self buffs and party buffs because they can largely negate sustaining penalties by using a combination of psyche, Heightened Concentration, and spirits of man. I think Bear works for you as a mentor spirit if you take a decent amount of Enhance Attribute spells, as those can become epic with enough hits. Other schools of magic have decent buffs as well, Detection for Combat Senses and Detect Life, and Manipulation for Armor and Elemental Aura (melee fighters only). Mostly though, the spells you want hits on as a buffer are Health spells, such as Enhanced Attribute and Increase Reflexes, not to mention Heal. You definitely want good armor, the best drain resist dice you can get (don't forget fetishes!), and slap patches for when wound penalties become a problem. Even if you go the Hacker route, it still pays significantly to get Enhanced Attribute and Increase Reflexes, as well as Heightened Concentration.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 5 2010, 10:19 AM) *
Contrary to the FAQ the rules say this:


You're absolutely right. That FAQ was written in 2006 for SR4. The rules for mystic adepts have since changed in Anniversary Edition - and it removes so much of the headache from making a mystic adept character.
Patrick the Gnome
QUOTE (Udoshi @ May 5 2010, 11:01 PM) *
You're absolutely right. That FAQ was written in 2006 for SR4. The rules for mystic adepts have since changed in Anniversary Edition - and it removes so much of the headache from making a mystic adept character.

As much as I don't like that particular ruling, you are wrong about the FAQ. The FAQ was completely revamped and updated a month ago after the release of anniversary edition. It is current and many of its rulings are both fair and useful. It still isn't RAW worthy, but you can't just discount it out of hand. The excuse that the FAQ is out of date is no longer valid.
Udoshi
Comely:

Huh. Character looks pretty simple. Decent at everything. More flaws than benefits...

I never thought I'd say this, but you might get a better deal out of Priority Generation with that chracter than with BP-gen. Just noting - priority in general is not that great. Karmagen, on the other hand, is better for making well rounded characters.


Changing Combat Sense to the spell of the same name should save you some points - with a sustaining foci and heightened concentration, keeping it up shouldn't be a problem - and net you some power points to play with - or some wiggleroom room to pick up some augmentations.

I would raise Perception. Its rather important.
Don't see any sort of vehicle skill. Driving's useful.

I have to second summoning. (Even if its just one dice and a specialty, its useful), as well as karoline's suggestion of earbuds and contacts. Its a great way to get a smartlink(just don't forget to skinlink everything), as well as the sensor channels for a tactical software if your group uses those.
Patrick the Gnome
QUOTE (Udoshi @ May 5 2010, 11:20 PM) *
Comely:

Huh. Character looks pretty simple. Decent at everything. More flaws than benefits...

I never thought I'd say this, but you might get a better deal out of Priority Generation with that chracter than with BP-gen. Just noting - priority in general is not that great. Karmagen, on the other hand, is better for making well rounded characters.


Changing Combat Sense to the spell of the same name should save you some points - with a sustaining foci and heightened concentration, keeping it up shouldn't be a problem - and net you some power points to play with - or some wiggleroom room to pick up some augmentations.

I would raise Perception. Its rather important.
Don't see any sort of vehicle skill. Driving's useful.

I have to second summoning. (Even if its just one dice and a specialty, its useful), as well as karoline's suggestion of earbuds and contacts. Its a great way to get a smartlink(just don't forget to skinlink everything), as well as the sensor channels for a tactical software if your group uses those.

Why should he even bother with the focus? Psyche + Heightened Concentration means he can sustain 5 spells of any force with no penalty and for the cost of keeping a dose of Psyche in his system. He definitely needs to increase his Logic if he does that to avoid addiction but besides that there's really no need for him to take a sustaining focus. Plus, Combat Sense the spell and the adept power stack, so it's not a bad idea to take both, although I think they're both Reaction bonuses so you'll be restricted by augmented maximums. Everything else is a valid point.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ May 5 2010, 09:29 PM) *
Why should he even bother with the focus? Psyche + Heightened Concentration means he can sustain 5 spells of any force with no penalty and for the cost of keeping a dose of Psyche in his system. He definitely needs to increase his Logic if he does that to avoid addiction but besides that there's really no need for him to take a sustaining focus. Plus, Combat Sense the spell and the adept power stack, so it's not a bad idea to take both, although I think they're both Reaction bonuses so you'll be restricted by augmented maximums. Everything else is a valid point.


Doh, sorry. I think i mixed up power focus and sustaining focus for a second. And, uh.... actually, thats a really good point. They do stack, and they don't add to reaction - they add to reaction and surprise tests, as well as melee and defense rolls. Slight difference - a reaction increase would increase initiative too, as well as giving extra dice.
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