So, I was supposed to be working out a rigger and got sidetracked. 400 bp build with 370 spent. There's 30 left for contacts, more skills/qualities,whatevers. There's also 2 points of magic unspent so far, not sure where to go with those.

I'm not that keen on In-Debt but it was an easy way to get the 15 points.

Metatype : Ork (20 BP)

Attributes (230 BP)
Body: 6
Agility: 4
Reaction: 5(6)
Strength: 5
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 4

Edge: 1
Magic: 5
Initiative: 8(9)/1(2)
Essence: 6

Active Skills (134 BP)
Close Combat : 3
Etiquette : 4
Negotiation : 2
Dodge : 2
Longarms (Shotguns) : 2
Pistols : 2
Perception : 2
Automotive Mechanic (Wheeled) : 3
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike) : 6 (+3 Adept power)
Intimidation (Physical) : 1

Knowledge Skills (15)
English : N
Sports (Combat Biking) : 3
Seattle Street Gangs : 4
Russian : 2
Vory : 2
Magic Background (Path of the Adept) : 1
Street Drugs : 1

Qualities (+15 BP)
Adept
Fame (5 - Combat Biking)
Gearhead (5 - Contrail)

Addiction, moderate (Red Orchid)
Spirit bane
In Debt (15)

Powers
Attribute Boost : Strength (Level 3)
Improved Ability : Pilot Groundcraft (Level 3)
Improved Reflexes (level 1)

Gear - 30k to spend (6BP) plus 15k for bike (In Debt)

Contacts (TBC)

Comments, suggestions, tweaks all welcome.

Let see... first off think you messed up your reaction as 5(7) since you only have 1 bonus reaction that I can see. I know your improved ability is towards pilot, but what about attribute boost? It has to go to a specific attribute if I recall correctly.

I'd suggest putting a bit more focus in some other areas as well. Right now you're decent with a shotgun, and passable with a pistol, but you lack much ability in a run besides riding your bike, which has limited application in a corp compound.

Right now your concept looks a little like the BMX bandit. I'd suggest picking a weapon (unarmed or shotguns or whatever) and focusing on that more to give yourself some better combat options.

I did mess up my reaction, oops.

As to the powers, that's what I get from copy/paste from a char generator, I'll edit those. Attribute boost is strength for when he has to go melee.

Taking Improved Ability Agility would help with the combat options. Expensive, but no so much when compared to Improved Combat Ability.

Dropping Strength Boost to 1 when then leave 1 point spare, possibly for Kinesics?

I'd go for Kinesics only if you're going to be the face, which at 7 dice, seems unlikely as an elf can easily manage that with charisma alone. Speaking of which, why is etiquette so high? I think you could safely convert that into influence group 2 so that you can pick up con, and possibly drop a point off of charisma. Only 4 dice, but that is enough to get by on simple things.

If you boost longarms up to 4, with the spec you have 6 + 4 + smartgun to give you 12 dice on shotgun attacks, which should be sufficient to hit most enemies. Make sure you grab some kind of automatic shotgun capable of burst fire for when you need that extra punch.

Could consider putting that extra power point into another level of reflexes. That'd increase your reaction a bit more for biking, and would give you an extra pass in combat, making you that much more effective in battle.

Etiquette is so high because I started with 2, decided I wanted at least 2, possbily 3 specialisations so just whacked it up instead. Then figured I might as well take intimidate incase I decided to go kinesics later. I could revert to an earlier spec and replace Intimate with Heavy Weapons(Grenade Launcher).

If I raised Longarms, I'd do it with the skill rather than the power I think, I don't consider .5magic a point good value til it's maxed. I've got the points left for extra skills. so there's no problem there. Increasing Agi seems the better option as it's +2 to Longarms, Pistols and CC rather than just Longarms. He'd be getting a SPAS-22 or the Enfield

No reason I can't raise Longarms (skill) and Agility though

As to the Increased Reflexes, my plan was to put that up to 2 as soon as I had the karma to spend to raise magic but it looks like I may rethink that.

Thinking about it has thrown up another question. I was holding off on Improved Agilty partly because it costs more karma to increase as your working off the improved stat, not the base one. However, increasing the stat to base first would double the power cost.

So...

If I have 4 Agility with +2 Improved Agility for 4(6)

Can I still increase to base 6 agility, paying the higher karma costs based on the improved rating, finishing at 6(). If so, do I get to keep the original power costs or do they increase because I'm going over natural maximums.

I think you raise them as though they were at the higher level and the PP cost doesn't change, though I'm not 100% on that. It would save you 1.5PP but cost you an extra 20 karma to do it that way, which is about a wash overall.

Instead you might want to consider giving up a point of magic in order to get muscle toner. Compare the 1 point of lost magic to the 1.5 points it would cost to raise agility 2 points (And no worries about natural max or increasing karma cost) and you'll find it is a fairly good deal.

Toner, Aug, Synaptic Accelerators are all better value. 2 points of magic buys a LOT of bioware and apart from odd things like Attribute Boost and Healing, I can't see too much reason for a PhysAd to maintain his magic as much as a mage might.

Getting bioware for the things bioware does "cheaper" seems, well, cheap though.

But an adept centered on biking seems more likely than other to go for the fastest and easiest way and flip the bird to notions of purity or keeping totaly atuned with magic.

That had occured. It also frees up a lot of magic points for other things. For instance, Astral Perception would vastly increase his usefulness on a team, especially combined with a weapon focus. With spirit bane and an addiction to an awakened drug, that might not be a bad idea.

Combined with that, Cram would make a short term substitute for Increased Reflexes until Synaptic Boosters could be afforded.

Then he flips round the other way, intiates and attunes with his bike and shotgun.

If you get into HtH you have failed as a rigger. And STR has no real use in SR otherwise. I'd go with synaptic acceleration instead and consider why you want an adept. It's only a little more to have a full mage, which gives you astral perception, astral projection, and counterspell. And the option of having a ranged attack when "unarmed".

But we always built characters using Franks house rules, which reduces skill costs to rational.

Combat biking involves the use of maces, lances and other HtH weaponry. Whislst some of the bikers are riggers I wanted to do it differently as I already have a "proper" rigger in the works.

Spend a point of Essence (and Magic) to get yourself some augmentation. You need:
- Synaptic Booster 1
- Control Rig
- Hot Sim Module (which can be paid for with Capacity if you get a cyber hand or foot)

If you're tight on BP, don't buy specializations yet. They're expensive in BP relative to how much they cost in Karma.

Dodge works in meatspace and rigspace, so put 4 or 5 ranks in that.

Close Combat is an expensive group. Just take Clubs (and buy yourself a shock club + pay for Melee Hardening on your gun).

Likewise, having both Pistols & Longarms seems like a waste. Pick one and stick with it.

If you have Etiquette and Negotiation, you might consider taking the Influence group, which gives you 4 skills for the price of 2.5... but you should also consider just dumping them. With a Cha 3 and no Face powers, they're not going to do much. Intimidation is fine, if your party's Face skipped it.

Why don't you have Gunnery?

If you take my suggestion regarding implants, you'll have lost 1 Essence (and 1 Magic), so you'll have 4 Magic left to spend. Here's what I'd do with those 4 power points:
- Combat Sense 4 (works in meatspace and rigspace) = 4
- Improved Vehicle Ability 3 (Pilot Ground Craft) = 0.75
- Heightened Concentration (from Digital Grimoire) = 1 <-- this allows you to ignore -4 of the penalty for operating in meatspace and fully jumped-in VR at the same time
- 0.25 left over, Sustenance?

Oh, so you want a professional athlete, not a professional criminal on a bike?

In that case an adept makes sense and you only want to run AR rigging, as VR means you can't fight HtH.

Why is everyone calling this character a rigger and suggesting stuff for riggers? This is not a rigger, this is a combatant that is good on a bike.

No gunnery because most combat bikers don't use vehicle mounted weaponry. Given that and the fact there's going to be a proper rigger in the group, I'm trying to avoid a control rig. That said, I'll have to check that digital grimoire power, it's not one I've seen. Does it mean he wouldn't look like a dead fish whilst on the bike?

In the mean time..

I've already decided to drop pistols, a shortbarreled t-250 will do for a "handgun" with a nice assault shotgun for when heavier firepower is needed. Combat biking nicely justifies licenses.

Close combat I'm inclined to keep for concept reasons, same with the social skills. I just don't see him as Leadership or Con kinda guy.

Synaptic boosters will go on the "get in play" list. Affording level 2 at char gen is going to be impossible, level 1 offers no real benefit over Cram in the short term.

Probably because I mentioned rigger in the first line of my first post.

SR4A, p.226: "Perceiving the VR Matrix in its full glory overwhelms the physical senses. Any action taken in the physical world while in VR suffers a –6 dice pool penalty."

... so you technically never had to look like a dead fish, but if you tried to move you would look like a rather clumsy fish. Heightened Concentration allows you to reduce that -6 penalty to -1 or -2 (and eventually entirely eliminate it). But it's a bit irrelevant if you're not going to be a full-on rigger...


Cool. If you plan to go that route, obviously skip the Reflex boosting power.

I still highly recommend Combat Sense 4 or 5, it's going to be of use in every fight.

...for a single task for each Complex Action you surrender to do so. People really misread the fuck out of that power.

A task, in context to how it's described and in the same context when used in the core rules (SR4A p. 60, "Dice Pools" and SR4A p. 61, "Defaulting" for instance), is basically a single use of a skill or other similar action. It's Centering Lite™, not Permanent Penalty Reduction Power™.

Would you mind quoting the line of the text which says that Heightened Concentration applies to "a single task" per use?

Perhaps it's in the errata?

I'm not seeing any such language. The only limitation I can see is "a single situational negative dicepool modifier", so it would allow you to ignore the -6 from VR -- but you couldn't use it to ignore cover / concealment penalties, or wound penalties, or whatever else, unless you took another Complex action to re-focus.

Maybe it's a contentiously ambiguous power. I guess you'd better ask your GM how it works in his game before you accept advice from the forum.

Ok, reworking the powers, I'm looking at

Increased Pilot Groundcraft 3
Strength boost 3
Astral Perception
Combat Sense 2
Quick Draw (cos quickdrawing an assault shottie beats a pistol any day.)

That's the 4 points.

The very first sentence of the power says as much. The exact same language is used in the core rules on the pages I referenced. Case in point, SR4A p. 60, Dice Pools: "When a gamemaster calls for a test, he will provide the player with a description of the task at hand and which skill (and linked attribute) is most appropriate for it." SR4A p. 61, Defaulting: "In some cases, however, a task may be too difficult for someone who lacks the proper skill to attempt (such as brain surgery, for example)." etc.

You're taking an awfully close reading of the word "task" there, which isn't a closely defined term in SR4. (Unlike "test", for example, which is a term of art in SR4.)

By your hyper-close reading, the power is only usable by female Adepts, since it's only usable on "her task at hand".

The less close reading -- that the first line is basically flavor text, just like the first line for the powers Power Swimming and Indomitable Will -- allows both males and females to benefit from a not particularly broken power.

... anyway, Zyerne, consult your GM before using.

Yes, you're right. It's clear that a power that requires activation (ie, the required Complex Action) is a permanent power that functions all the time without any consequence, effectively making it significantly more powerful than one of the more powerful and coveted metamagic techniques in the game. You nailed it. You just gotta make sure to close your eyes and hum loudly so you can ignore everything that counters your piss-poor reading of the rule to make it so, is all.

Ugh, every thread, people.

Back in reasonable-land, it seems clear that 'a task' doesn't mean 'a battle scene'. It means something much closer to 'a test, extended test, or *small* handful of *closely* related tests'.

I agree with the interpretation that Heightened Concentration refers to a single dice roll test in return for the loss of a complex action. Focus, concentrate, get it in your head, slam dunk the action while ignoring the penalty. Not, spastically flip back and forth and somehow be concentrating more while you're simultaneously concentrating less.

Seriously -- Heightened Concentration to decrease the penalty of responding to literally everything (both Matrix and real world events) at the same time? That's the antithesis of heightened concentration. Although if you went haltingly and kept stopping to examine the situation (spend half your complex turns eliminating the penalty of the other half) then that's fine.

On Heightened Concentration...

The problem is that some "tasks" take a simple action to complete, while other "Tasks" may take a day ... and the interesting thing is that each might only require a single roll to complete...

See where everyone is coming from yet?

I agree that it should not allow someone to focus and then just ignore a single penalty for a good long time whilst in the middel of a chaotic combat, but come on, the fact that a "task" has no delineated time increment is a big reason that there is so much contention...

Just Sayin'

Keep the Faith

What's HtH?

hand to hand (close range melee combat)

15bp in-debt?? ....
taking Born Rich 10bp) quality from Runner's companion, using 3 bp then adds 15k to usable cash..
then (if needed) taking 5 bp in-debt quality would work too..
Sinner
Day job (bike mechanic )
In-debt
all 5 bp qualities.

I'd lower the Attribute Boost to one. Level 3 only gives you 2 more dice and higher drain. On average level 1 gives you an increase of 2 to strength, level 3 2.67.

I'd really reconsider taking Astral Perception. You have nothing to defend yourself against spirits. When you astrally perceive they don't even have to materialize to harm you. If you drop it and reduce attribute boost to 1 you can increase Combat sense to 5. This helps against all attackers, including materialized spirits.

Going to replace In Debt with Illiterate and 5pts of something I think.

As to Astral Perception, taking a weapon focus or dropping Boost Strength to 1 and adding Killing Hands would fix the vulnerability there?

How can he have learne Mechanics without being able to read? How did he acquire his magical Background knowledge? Would you really want to pay 10 Karma just for the possibility to learn reading?

It would mitigate the vulnerability but IMHO going dual-natured is not a good idea without astral ranged weapons. If you go down that path, I'd suggest you take killing hands. Unarmed adepts can be a lot more powerful than armed melee adepts.

Except that they often get turned into hamburger before they get to melee range.

If you want astral perception or being able to fight spirits take a real mage who can cast spells. Stunbolt is a lot more reliable against a F8 spirit than trying to punch it. It's hard to beat 16 dice of attack or defense, particularly if you also take damage from his energy aura when you finally do punch him.

All right, Astral Perception can go. It's been a while since I played, I'd forgotten a spirit was going to have to materialise to kick his ass without it.

On the qualities: Moderate addiction, Spirit Bane and Sensitive system gives 35BP. I think I'll go with that, it at least helps justify the lack of control rig.

Entirely unrelated, it seems you can't dual wield T-250s, which is a shame.

If you have Runner's Companion there may be some more interesting Negative qualities. Also without Sensitive System you could get the control rig, Muscle Toner 3 and a Reflex Recorder(for a skill other than Pilot Groundcraft) all for a single point of lost magic.

Who would want to dual-wield pump-action shotguns? You essentially make them single shot weapons. Also shooting two weapons in the same action is generally a bad idea (less dice, no smartlink, two dodge rolls, two soak rolls). On the other hand there is a rule in Arsenal for using big weapons one-handed. I don't see why you couldn't use that mechanic combined with the dual-wielding rules (hint: don't do it the dice pool would get even smaller). If this optional rule is used nothing prevents you from first shootin one shotgun and then the other(doubles ammunition, reduces recoil).

..and Spirit Bane.. driving 200/ kmh +*** ed off Fire Spirit is not good for your health..

Bah that guy can do the crash test, no risk no fun

I was talking about the accident power. engulf shouldn't be much worse at high speeds.

I don't want a control rig, character isn't supposed to be a rigger so I think sensitive system would work well.

As to the T-250s, they are described as self loading, despite what the picture may seem to indicate. Shotguns exist now that incorporate both, typically using the pump when the rounds have the power to cycle the next round (less lethal munitions mostly)

On that one-handed use of two-handed weapons, the only reference in arsenal I can see relates to melee weapons. Is there one for firearms too?

pg. 162 Arsenal (Using two-handed firearms)

Ah, I confused the T-250 with the Remington 990, that used to be a pump-action shotgun. In SR4A there is no reference of it.

Addiction (red orchid). do u mean Crimson Orchid from Arsenal pg. 76? if so..
" users get astral beacon quality during effect"
attracting every spirit in sight in astral (including insect,fire.. etc)
adding Spirit Bane..RIP
(i would really change that addiction to something else) (IMOO)

Thanks. Useful for another char setup to use ARs one handed.




Yes, I mean Crimson Orchid. I'm more likely to dump spirit bane than the addiction, It's a lot more flavorful than being addicted to stim patches (both being High pain tolerance 6) and the -2 rea makes it more meaningful as well. Also, as I read it, Spirit Bane doesn't make spirits automatically hostile, nor does Astral Beacon attract every spirit in sight.

ok, no automatically hostile..
Spirit bane: affected spirits are likely to harass character ( " what would happen if i push him/her when driving bike?.." )
Astral Beacon: sticks like a sore thumb on the astral plane
you must also choose spirit type when choosing Spirit Bane quality
and very few spirit type are actually friendly..

This seems kinda obvious to me...but if your going to be using Cram for the initiative boost why not just make your addiction to cram?

I feel like I may have some other pearls of wisdom around here somewhere but i seem to have lost my marbles.

That's a slippery slope - you already need increased amounts due to the addiction, and before you know it you need to take it on a regular basis as well as combat and then you're burned out!

Intially he was going to have Increase Reflexes and the addiction to Crimson Orchid was based on the supposition that Combat Bikers might well develop an addiction to "painkillers". Crimson Orchid seemed more interesting than an addiction to Stim Patches.

He'll infact be using Cram and Betameth as his combat drugs in the short term buit I didn't want to have to buy off the addictions to those once he gets Synaptic Boosters in.

(Unrelated, why is Betameth considered riggger drug when it has very little value in VR?)

So he'll get the addiction anyway from taking it before missions. Also I believe augmentation has rules for removing addictions as well as healing essence loss due to being a complete burnout.

And don't bring slippery slopes into the equation. DRUGS are a slippery slope whether you start with an addiction or not. but making your addiction to one that your going to be using anyway is better than getting an addiction to one that you don't really use, and then very likely getting another addiction to a drug that you are going to be using anyway.

Also its kinda humorous to me to force the player to resist taking a dose at the start of a day when they have to do a run later that night and have him crash right before the run. But that just makes the character have more depth.

If he gets the addictions in game, that's fine. As far as I'm aware, I don't need to buy those off with karma whereas I would I took them as qualities.

Remember that just because you didn't take the negative quality at creation doesn't mean you won't get it.
So he could end up addicted to 3 different drugs. And yes you would have to pay them off with karma. As soon as you get addicted you get the negative quality (without the nice perk of getting some BP back).

In my opinion stick with cram and leave out the crimson orchid and betameth. just take the one addiction so it can be controlled more easily. But thats just my opinion.