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Legs
Just wondering if anyone would like to share their process for figuring out what a job is worth...

I know you take into account the dangers, expenses, time, etc when figuring out payment, but how do you get a starting point to go from?

I want to keep my characters struggling, at least for a bit, so I don't want to give them TOO much money, but I don't want to give them too little either.

Thanks!
DireRadiant
Talk to your players.

Give them more then they need, but less then they want.
Emeraldknite
Well Since I have an over arcing plotline in my game Any run that pretains to them figuring out more of what happened to their lost memories and why they got burned (Like in Burn Notice) They tend to get less pay. Things that have only marginal to a little the get some decent cash. And Trying to keep money away out of players hands can be hard if they are resourceful enough. selling salvaged weapons and gear is something that my players do a lot.
Megu
Mine tend to vary a bit depending on the employer, more than any other factor. Corps and big syndicates will shell out on a level that policlubs and local gangs can't. But typically, my PCs won't get out of bed for less than 3 grand apiece, and have a run every two or three weeks of gametime. So a typical run from the local anti-corp activists (who are partially Mob funded) gets them about that, whereas corp runs tend to pay twice as much. Things like wetwork or high-risk runs can easily triple the price on top of that, though. So they got about 10K each from a major corp datasteal/extraction recently, since it was a really tough setup.
Banaticus
Plot out how much karma is necessary for an adept to earn 4 points of magic for Increased Reflexes 3. Divide that by how much karma you give out each session. Then look at how much nuyen is required for Wired Reflexes 3 and dived that by the number you had earlier. That's how much nuyen you should give per session.

So, since we're past character creation... for an adept to earn 4 magic points (6 to 10), it'll be 214 karma. If you give out 7 karma per run, then it'll take 30.5 runs to earn that much. Wired Reflexes 3 is 100,000 nuyen. Thus, you should pay approximately 3,271 karma per run after expenses, so probably about 5k nuyen a run, depending on how many consumables and extra mission-specific stuff people buy.

If you give 10 karma per run, then that's 21.4 runs, so about 4673 nuyen per run or about 6.5 thousand to 7.5 thousand nuyen per run.
Mantis
Banaticus, that's ... interesting but it also works pretty well. I like it. I use a sliding scale based on what ever I feel sounds good and what I think the players will accept. I also like the system used in the Denver Missions campaign, based on how much karma you have earned.
Legs, its like figuring out what to sell something for in the really real world. What ever the market will bear and still remain competitive. Last thing I want in my games is the players feeling the need to scavenge every gun from a fight and loot every dead guy for his cyber ware to sell. Its called 'Shadowrun', not 'GTA, the Awakening'. I think Banaticus's system will give you a good ballpark figure to start with. Ancient History posted something recently that listed some proposed payment schemes for different jobs. I hope it's ok to repost this AH. This is all Ancient History's work.

QUOTE
THE GOING RATE: How Much To Pay Your Runner Team
By Robert Derie

The Going Rate
Part of the setting in a campaign is the going rate, or how much a Mr. Johnson can expect to have to shell out to get a particular job done. Like any other part of the economy, the going rate is determined by supply and demand. If the streets are swarming with wannabes, a team of shadowrunners might have to fight just to get a low-paying job; if a particular runner team is the only one in the sprawl that can get the job done, they can expect higher rates.
No matter the job, the Mr. Johnson, or the reputation of the team, the price offered for a run should be commensurate with the difficulties the shadowrunners should expect to face. Shadowrunners undertake dangerous, illegal actions that can result in injury, prison, or death, and they expect proper compensation.
There is no magic formula that can tell a gamemaster exactly how much her group of players should get per run, but a good rule of thumb is to base it on the cost of the average lifestyle in her campaign. Keep in mind that shadowrunners usually only manage one shadowrun per month, so average runs should at least cover the monthly payment for that character, plus a little extra to cover the runners’ expenses incurred during the run. Difficult or very dangerous shadowruns should set the character up for a couple of months at their current lifestyle, or a month at the next higher lifestyle. Details on lifestyle costs can be found on page 261 in Shadowrun, Fourth Edition. Characters who wish to maintain a higher lifestyle than the average you set for your campaign can do so–all they have to do is work more often or pursue higher-paying jobs. Many campaigns creep toward higher lifestyles as characters become more powerful and the scope of runs increases.
It is up to the gamemaster to provide players with the proper incentive to accept a Mr. Johnson’s offer without disrupting the balance of the campaign. A gamemaster who consistently offers low fees for dangerous work frustrates her players, while “sugar daddy” gamemasters who give too much nuyen for too little effort often find their campaigns running out of control.

Negotiation
In the stereotypical shadowrun, the players sit rapt in attention as the gamemaster, in the persona of Mr. Johnson, delivers the pitch. After she’s finished, it’s time for the fun part: haggling. Most players have come to expect (and enjoy) a bit of dickering over the price. While ideally the negotiations should be roleplayed between the gamemaster (as Mr. Johnson) and the face or spokesman of the group–after all, social situations are where face characters excel–the relevant rules for negotiations can be found on p.121 of Shadowrun, Fourth Edition. Gamemasters should keep in mind the Social Modifiers Table on p.122 as well; most professional Mr. Johnsons are Neutral to any shadowrunners they are hiring, though racist or biased Mr. Johnsons may start out as Prejudiced or even Hostile. If the Mr. Johnson is planning to betray the runners, they may accede to the runners demands after token resistance.
Only the most inexperienced Mr. Johnsons offer the full amount they are willing to pay in their initial offer. A good rule of thumb is to have Mr. Johnson initially offer 80-85% of the total, and then bargain with the characters, raising the price by 5% for every net hit the shadowrunner scores, and lowering the price 5% for every net hit the Mr. Johnson. Players feel a sense of accomplishment if they can raise the price up 15-20%, never knowing that they are being paid no more than what Mr. Johnson expected to pay them. Mr. Johnsons do not have limitless resources, however, and no Mr. Johnson will raise the price over 120-125% of what they intended to pay the runners.
If the runners repeatedly attempt to raise the price after the Mr. Johnson has signaled the end of the negotiations, remind them that Mr. Johnson can walk out and find plenty of other shadowrunners to do his dirty work for the price he offers.

The Advance
As a show of good faith, cover necessary expenses, and “sweeten the pot” during negotiations, a Mr. Johnson will typically advance each of the runners 10-15% of their pay up front. Player characters may negotiate to increase the percentage of their pay upfront with another Negotiation test, as outlined above, with each net hit increase or decreasing the size of the advance by 5%. Under no conditions will a Mr. Johnson advance the player characters more than 50% of their final take.

Alternate Forms of Payment
A Mr. Johnson will give a runner team as much information and assistance he deems necessary to get the assignment done. Reasonable expenses are acceptable, provided the shadowrunners had the foresight to include them in the negotiations, and the interests that the Mr. Johnson represents (if he does not represent his own) may be able to assist the characters with semi-specialized equipment or information. This is especially true if the runners are in a foreign sprawl or country, where they lack the contacts to obtain basic gear. If the shadowrunners make absurd requests or require Mr. Johnson to ferret out information they should be able to obtain on their own, their fee should be reduced accordingly.
When nuyen isn’t sufficient by itself, a Mr. Johnson may sweeten the pot by offering gear or services that shadowrunners could not easily obtain on their own. Megacorps and syndicates could swap out weapons, programs and equipment (at –20-50% of the listed price) in exchange for nuyen, while a magical group might offer instruction, access to their facilities, magical goods, or even a grimoire of spell formulae. If player characters include a request for certain items in the negotiation process, most Mr. Johnsons are ready and willing to agree–provided they have access to such equipment, of course.
In street level campaigns, a person or group without sufficient cred may try to hire the runner team by trading goods and services. Such runs make excellent roleplaying opportunities, and the gamemaster should be careful in making the payoff worth it to the runners in the end. A group of player characters who save a restaurant from a gang might be able to eat their for free for a month, taking 5% off their lifestyle costs, while a team that saves the gunsmith’s kidnapped daughter from being raped might earn a Major Favor (See Favors, p. 280, Shadowrun, Fourth Edition).
Variety is the spice of life, as they say, and being paid by Mr. Johnson is no exception. Every now and again, a Mr. Johnson may not pay the runners with certified credsticks or wire the nuyen directly into a bank account under one of the runners’ assumed names. A Mr. Johnson could show up with a suitcase filled with bundles of old nuyen notes–or even foreign currencies like CAS dollars or Quebec francs. Corporate Mr. Johnsons may pay runners in corporate scrip, a type of currency issued and redeemed by one of the Big Ten megacorporations, and which can be used (if you have the right fake ID) to shop at corporate stores (which usually have –20-50% discounts on select equipment, and only accept corporate scrip). In some sprawls, underworld markers and corporate or government bonds are the preferred payment, which the runners can redeem for nuyen from whoever issued them. Mr. Johnsons in corporate employ are particularly fond of paying runners in stock, as it discourages shadowrunners from doing anything that will reduce the company’s stock price (at least, until the runners manage to sell the stock). Runners without the time or patience to deal with alternate forms of payment can exchange them for nuyen through a fixer.
Non-tangible payment can take the form of information (where the runner’s friend is being held, the passcode to a datacrèche with material to blackmail the local district attorney, the schedule of the next shipment of Ares weapons coming in on the docks, etc.), a valid SIN, a six-month DocWagon contract, or an introduction to a potential contact.

The Paymaster
In most Shadowrun campaigns, the player characters will be employed and paid by a Mr. Johnson. Some campaigns may have someone else footing the bill for the characters: government and megacorporate agents will receive steady paychecks and be issued (or able to check out) equipment as needed; a group of syndicate enforcers may be given a piece of territory to run as a reward for proving themselves; and legitimate private investigators, mercenaries, and security consultants have standardized rates for their customers.
If the character receives a regular stipend of paycheck, it should be a monthly allotment suitable to maintain the characters at a given lifestyle, or a lifestyle will be provided (on a megacorporate or government installation, for example); the higher they get in the ranks, the higher the lifestyle, the more perks, and the better quality of toys, training, and equipment they have access to. Player characters that work for syndicates are usually initiated members (“Made” members of the Mafia, Yazuka kobun, etc.) and are “taken care of” by the syndicate; most or all of their lifestyle costs will be paid for through favors and services owed to the syndicate. Additionally, syndicate members typically receive a cut of the take in any robbery or illegal operation they take part in. Private investigator and mercenary campaigns operate much like shadowruns, but all negotiations are legal and the players will need to sign formal contracts to seal the deal.

Bonuses and Penalties
At the end of a shadowrun, when the players meet with Mr. Johnson again to settle up, it’s common for the players to be assessed bonuses and penalties based on their performance. If the players have done well and accomplished all the aspects of their mission within the parameters, Mr. Johnson may give them a small (5-10% of payment for the run) bonus. A tip, basically. It is also typical that a Mr. Johnson may purchase any useful paydata or items of interest to his employer at this time, which saves the runners from going to their fence. Runners who fail to complete one or more parts of the mission, or who act in an unprofessional matter and cause needless secondary damage will find their Mr. Johnson unwilling to pay the full amount (–5-10% per infraction, to a maximum of 50% unless the runners totally bollix things up).
It is a fact of life in the shadows that most runners end their careers dead or maimed. If negotiated ahead of time, a Mr. Johnson may pay a set amount toward hospital fees or to the fallen runner’s family. Mr. Johnsons who have not agreed to this obligation will pay the original amount to the team, to be split as they desire, or even pay each living runner their share and pocket the change.

The Bottom Line
The bottom line is the absolute minimum payment professional runners should expect to receive for different services. The table below is included as a reference for gamemasters to use in their games. Gamemasters are recommended to use the table as a guide when adjusting payments to fit their campaigns.
If the shadowrunners ever need to hire anyone else to do something for them, these are the minimum prices they can expect to pay for their fellow shadowrunners’ services.

CODE
BASELINE SHADOWRUN PAYMENT TABLE
Assassination 5,000¥
Bodyguard/Security Duty 200¥ per day
Burglary 2,000¥
Courier Run 1,000¥
Datasteal 20% value of data
Distraction 1,000¥
Destruction 5,000¥
Enforcement 1,000¥
Encryption/Decryption 200¥ x Encryption Rating
Extraction 20,000¥
Hacking 1,000¥ x Firewall
Investigation 200¥ per day
Smuggling Run 5,000¥
Mesh
Shadowrunning itself is expensive work. Your starting character may have ¥250k in cyber/bio-ware, tech, guns, and ammo. Don't overlook what it costs the group to pull off the run. What if they blow through a lot of ammo? Damage a suit of armor? Bang up their ride? Fry some tech? Pass out bribes or hire help? The reward needs to justify the expenditures.

Every once in a while your group may suffer a setback. Vengeful forces may expose a runner ruining his lifestyle causing huge setbacks, safehouses can be blown, vehicles blown up. Your runners need golden paydays to come back stronger.

This is also a great way to discourage overpowering solutions like panther cannons and APDS. Remind your runners that every squeeze of the trigger is burning through their profit margins.

In the end whatever rate of financial progress is fun for you and your group won't be a wrong one.

Mesh
Omenowl
I would base it upon time and frequency of jobs then use a multiplier based on difficulty and "costs".

I would figure 2500 nuyen per week per runner. This roughly matches what a PMC makes in Afghanistan. I would then use a multiplier based on the (reputation/notoriety). Then add some things like bonuses such as no killing, etc that make the task more difficult, but also more lucrative. You want to make sure they get enough money to pay for their expenses, but not so much that they live a luxury lifestyle with deltaware...
tjn
QUOTE
Like any other part of the economy, the going rate is determined by supply and demand.

But Johnsons also have to compete with the opportunity costs of what else the shadowrunner could do on his own for money, especially since what the Johnson is going to ask for is likely a great deal more risky than those other options. I really don't understand why players accept anything under 5k each for simple courier or surveillance runs or 30k (or more) each for high risk runs like assassinations/extractions of corp execs (my Johnsons usually just state a flat sum and let the runners deal with the dividing, but that's a different conversation).

The previously posted prices just don't recognize how easy it is to make money doing petty (read: boring) crimes. Most cars are an absolute joke for a skilled hacker to steal, and even if he takes a serious pay cut just to move them, he would earn more in a day of playing GTA than he would breaking into a corp's private property and risking life and liberty. And frankly, I don't think Lone Star would really care about Joe Random's stolen car under most circumstances, but that corp is really going to care about the fate of it's new prototype gizmo or eliminating the stolen paydata. Even worse are mages, who are rare enough to the point that some employers wouldn't let a pesky thing like the mage being SINless stop them. To make it enticing for a spell slinger, the Johnson's gotta compete with every other person that would like to employ the mage in a legal (and safe!) manner.

If we accept the convention that shooting people in the face for money is a valid career choice, then we have to make shooting people in the face for money competitive with the alternatives. Since shooting people in the face for money carries higher risks than petty crime or safe and legal alternatives, then its rewards should be commensurate to that risk. Also, since shadowrunning is usually more interesting than rolling a series of grandmas for their retirement checks, as a GM, you should reward the interesting stuff. If only to keep the players from cruising for grandmas simply because it pays better than any run given by a Johnson.
Red-ROM
What about the double cross?

Situations where the Johnson has no intention of paying, but you don't want the characters to be completely screwed? Give them a good chunk up front? set up some other way to earn cred on the run?

As far as the usual payouts, I haven't come up with a good system. some characters need more cred than others. Some jobs take longer and cost more to pull off. I think that's why this topic is so popular on dumpshock.

Once I had the runners working for a woman who's husband was running from the Yaks. She asked them how much they charge and the group put out a number far less than I would have offered (I think it was 10,000 for 3 players). They ended up making more from other sources during the run (Stolen Eurocar from the mob, reward money from the Yakuza for stolen artifact) than the actual payout.
Omenowl
From a Mr. Johnson's perspective he has a bigger issue with a double cross from the shadowrunners. The issue is if the players decide the prototype is worth more on the open market or the information of the run is worth more than what Mr. Johnson is planning. A Mr. Johnson usually won't betray a group as the cost to pay them off is less than the damage they can and will inflict if the double cross fails. However, if it is personal then all bets are off.

At the end of the day every shadowrunner lives for the big score. A run commensurate with Die Hard or Oceans 11. The one they can retire on. There is little incentive for a high power mercenary group to take highly lethal missions with little return. That said is I don't believe that dozens of missions are coming from Mr. Johnsons. 1 mission a month maximum is more reasonable else no AAA corporation is making money in a city with several groups of shadowrunners.
Kazuhiro
Personally I haul cash at my runners but am tight on the karma. My reason for this is that I consider 400 BP more than adequate for a team of 3-5 to accomplish some pretty epic shit.

Our group tends to run in frequent but short sessions so I measure by how complicated the run was: about three karma per "phase" plus extras for characters who go above and beyond. This results in one run netting them 5-10 karma. We also go by the general rule that runners get "hazard pay" if the Johnson knows that bullets will probably fly: more than 10k per runner usually.

We also run on a "GM Karma" system because we generally prefer being a player to being a GM. All of the GM's characters get a little less than half the base karma for the run, with more if the players thought he did a good job.
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