I'm just getting a new group together and I'm working with a fledgling gm (not that I know much more myself) on building up characters and getting the game going. One of the things my GM wants to do is have a GMPC who has been around for quite a while, so we've been discussing the effects of aging. I haven't been able to find anything in the books on the subject, so I figured I'd ask here.

For reference, the GMPC is a troll, and he goblinized in the very first wave of goblinization. If that's going to make him dead rather than just old we can adjust that, but that's how things stand right now.

They're in the same section as the encumbrance rules. That being said, why should old people automatically get to be smarter or more charismatic or wiser (ok, an argument could definitely be made for this one)? Also, look at Chuck Norris. He just turned 70 a couple of months ago and the guy is still totally ripped. If you keep exercising hard and eating well, you can stay in shape for the rest of your life.

If your attributes get better, it's because karma was spent. If they get worse, then either you had some bad luck (could happen to anyone) or you slipped up somewhere. Hopefully none of us have bad luck as we all age.

I always handwave it away. Even in D&D, you never use those rules except to cheat, and this ain't D&D.

Unless it comes up during game (ie, it lasts a REALLY long time, or some magical effect is in play), it doesn't matter. Just build the character appropriately.

But if it comes up in play, as you mentioned, then just apply the effects as a Negative Quality. In fact, I believe there's one in the Changeling section of Runner's Companion. You can extrapolate from that.

is age really worth playing? With all the gene therapy and the state of health care, really, who cares about age.

A first wave troll would be right on his deathbed, I think. 55 year life expectancy, isn't it? That said, just give them the 'fragile' weakness from RUnning Wild if you must have a mechanical bit. Maybe some Reduced (sense), too.

Another consideration... IIRC at least one of the novels (I forget if it ever shows up in an actual game book) presents the possibility that a human (not a non-goblinized child of an ork or troll) that goblinizes will sometimes live out their normal human lifespan as opposed to suffering the shorter lifespan of their new metaspecies. If you were to decide this happens in your game, that Troll could be elderly, but not as 'on their death bead' as they would be with a normal troll lifespan.

> That average lifespan figure was computed by The Man, and is severely skewed. They counted the trolls and orks killed by VITAS II as having had a lifespan of 1 year! There's no scientific evidence to support an ork or troll dying of 'old age' after such a short span of years; after all, it has only been 50 years since goblinization. I will admit, only a pitiful few of that first generation are still around, thanks in large part to the bigotry and aggression of Papa Human. Similarly, the projected long lifespans of elves and dwarves have no basis in fact, seeing as how we're only 71 years out from UGE.
> Okkam the Ork Intellectual

brennanhawkwood is correct. Goblinized metahumans retain their starting lifespans.

Really? Weird. I bet that pisses off the mayfly orks, finding that another ork is living triple their life.

I never thought about that and it certainly clears up a pet peeve I've had lately with all the elderly Orks showing up in recent sourcebook's. I take back everything I said.

Why the heck would rules on aging be in the street gear chapter?

In all honesty I personally told him to just build the character so that it makes sense, but he wanted rules because he's planning on doing a base build with a standard 400bp character and then estimating how much karma the character would have earned over time and building him up based on that. Needless to say, GMPC or not this guy isn't going to be making regular runs with us for the simple fact that he'd be massively overpowered compared to starting characters.

The effects of aging is a proven fact of life. A healthy lifestyle can mitigate the effects, but it's still there. 25 Y.O Chuck Norris can kick the shot out of 70 y.o Chuck Norris. Of course only a Chuck Norris can beat Chuck Norris....

But is it worth game wise? I don't think so. Unless you plan a game to last 50+ years there is really no point. If you want to make an old character just let the attributes and skills represent that. And if you want to make a 70 year old runner who's been a workout fanatic for 50 years feel free to let him have high body, strength and agility.

I forget where I saw it but, in current canon, orks age faster. It has been stated multiple times by shadowrun characters in Shadowtalk that orks, byt the time they are old enough to drink alcohol, are at middle age.Some intellectual ork was described as, "the old man" of his peers at 27(?) because orks mature faster and EVO is, cannonically, considering 10 year old orks to have reached the age of consent.

If memory serves me, humans are listed as an average lifespan of 65 or 75 years. However, depending on your health and medical care available, humans can routinely reach their eighies and ages of 90 or more are not unheard of. In a similar vein I would expect that an ork with proper resources to be able to easily reach ages 10-20 years older than that listed.

According to the numbers in the BBB orks have a 33% shorter life expectancy, assuming that means they actually live one third "faster" (and there are quite a few fluff references to support this, most recently the Ork Nation contact in RC) a 12 year old ork would be equally developed as a human at 18.

One man's canon is another ork's smoothie propaganda.

No time to look it up myself, as I am off to see Robin Hood, but this hass come up before, and the best source for "natural" lifespans of the races is Earthdawn.

Yeah, there is a Progeria quality, although it is fairly harsh-- in light of what Brennan said about goblinized metas sometimes living longer, I'd say whether it's really appropriate depends on whether this guy is in his mid 50s or whether he's pushing 70. A decent alternative to look at if he's only in his 50s may be Biosystem Overstress-- it may not have the obvious flavor connection in its name, but the effects make a good amount of sense for an older character who still has a lot of fight in them. Basically, it cuts how long you can push yourself before you hit Fatigue damage and doubles the interval on any Healing tests. That way Grampa Runner can still punch out a ghoul if he has to but he'll still be feeling the run in his bones for the next few days without magical attention. Just rename it "Consider Retirement" and you're good to go.

Characters who were human and then goblinized with the first wave have normal human lifespans (we saw this in one of the novels). (Everyone goblinized after that has the metatype lifespan.)

My GM likes this idea, and may be houseruling on himself something about dropping physical skills past your 40s (or something like that)

Anyways thanks for the help on that one. Sounds like a good plan.

I don't think there is any evidence that this is canon in 4e. Not everything from the novels makes it to the RPG.

Elves are pegged at 100 there. (Blood elves 400). Much as I happen to enjoy Earthdawn, with it's topsy turvy whacky ruleset, there have been a few changes.

Edit: NEvermind, I'm wrong.

Just looked at my HTML version of the Earthdawn Rulebook (it was released on CD back in the day) and it gave the following:

• Dwarf: 100–150
• Elf: 300–400
• Human: 75–100
• Obsidiman: 500+
• Ork: 40–65
• Troll: 50–75
• T'skrang: 85–115
• Windling: 170+

It was in SR1. There is a troll cop NPC in one of the earlier modules (I forget which one, Elven Fire maybe?) named Koren Thark. In his cast of shadows entry it mentions him having lived longer than a troll's normal lifespan because he goblinized.

Imagine what this must have done and be doing to ork/troll society. The first wave victims of gobliization could easily outlive their grandchildren or even great grandchildren. The worse part is they wouldn't really know how short the lives of their kids were until later. That's a pretty harsh reality to live with.



Priceless!

Dude takes HGH. That's the kind of "eating well" that keeps you in good shape at 70.

No reason a successful runner in his later years couldn't do at least that much. Kind of medicine available in 2072, I can't imagine being 55 (assuming, as others have, that Goblinized folk age at normal human rates,) is going to pose as much of a problem as all the battle wounds a runner of 20+ years would accrue. But, hey, that's why the docs invented chrome.

And let's not forget magical healing. I'm sure that there are even ways of using magic to retard the aging process. Spirit Pacts are one way, and I'm sure there may be others.

Thanks for that, I know it's Earthdawn and not SR, but it's still the same universe so you can extrapolate a bit from that. Also looks like I should make my pixie character a bit older to start (Since I'm pretty sure I've heard someone say that pixies are basically windlings from Earthdawn)

Yeah elven fire. I thought of the old troll as an odd one out, something to make him memorable.