I was playing my Troll Boar physical shaman a few weeks ago in a ganger type campaign, and we had a rival gang basically throw us outta our house.

So, i whistled up a hearth spirit, had it materialize, loaded its arms up with the remaining defensive grenades i had, and had it run helter skelter through the main area where the rival gang members were.

My question is, would the house be angry at me for doing that kinda damage to it? Would the spirit be really pissed at me?


I worry cause we will retake the house once the gang regroups

I think they would. Case in mind, Buttercup capturing Craig Sanchez to stop him from telling Buttercup's true name to anyone.

You better hope it didn't get free. If it didn't, better make it an apology.

If you can have Spirit Bane (where they just don't like you) I'd say you might now. Nothing says spirits don't have personalities. The question now is whether or not your shaman will conjure any hearth spirit (knowing nastiness may occur) let alone the SAME spirit.

But yes, I'd say it would be trying to actively destroy you char. for it.

Well considering that we will have to go back and retake the house, there is a good possibility he will have to conjure again in the house.

The spirit didn't actually go free. It was nailed by a combination of the 5 or 6 grenades it was carrying and the rival gang's mage.

A smart spirit might know to dematerialise just before the grenades go off... especially if a grenade has ever gone off in its domain before. Aside from that I don't see how a spirit would see it significantly differently from being sent into combat to die. If it does understand grenades, and knows that it was just sent-in to die, would probably resent it. It then has around 24 days "quiet time" on the metaplanes, the results of which could range from the spirit forgiving you, or the spirit deciding that the physical plane is a bad place, to the spirit swearing to destroy you or simply teach you a lesson in some ironic manner. Note that revenge is only really possible for a free spirit.

Yeah, as long as the spirit isn't free, you have no worries. But, if you are a truly benevolent roleplayer (Is that an oxymoron?), then perhaps your GM could arrange an apologetic session, where you make it clear that you are sorry for the action taken against the spirit, and you could make repairs on the home, even bettering the spirit's domain. If your Char is more along the Malevolent line, just banish the sucker. Another Hearth spirit will soon take over the domain, and you will have a clean slate. It's a good thing hearth spirits don't all hang out and talk about their conjurors on the Fireplace plane...

Or do they?

I've always played spirits as sort of formless astral energies tied to the house or whatever. They don't remember anything. At least, unless you have Spirit Bane or are talking about a free spirit. Remember, free spirits are people too.

silly shamans and your spirits. Be a hermetic and get an elemental. They have no souls, they are simply tools to be used by the magician. *EG*

[/silly trolling]

An evil gm might instantly turn the house into a toxic domain
The spirit bane thing is a good idea, though maybe just for that one house or neighborhood, unless you do such things again in which case it expands to the full flaw.

I think its a great little roleplay opportunity.

It does specifically say that ally spirits hold grudges, but they are quite unique.

It depends on several things, all pretty much mentioned in this thread. It depends on how your GM views spirits. Are they as some scholars have theorized, a manifestion of existing energies or as others have suggested, created by the will of the summoning shaman?

If you're summoning existing energies, then ya, they might be a wee ticked off at you.

Depends how your game is run.

Kong

The gang my character is in has occupied the building for sometime.

In its former life it was a Hilton hotel, but now it is a some what delipidated building with pirated water and power.

It also has an entrance into the Underground from the sub-sub basement.

You may get lucky and it thank you for getting them back out..... If you had a good histroy in the house....

Good luck, mine wont let me have a one car garage for less than High Lifestyle! We don't use templates...

Since a spirit destroyed in such a way is really only disrupted back to it's home plane I don't think it'll be all that mad, more so if you take the time to fix up the building and improve not only your standard of living but it's as well

Theres only a fre references to bound pesonalities for spirits, but they all seem to indicate that spirits are in fact individuals. Case in point, the bound elementals in Burning Bright.

I would definately say that a spirit would hold a grudge if you did some thing particularly evil to it.

Some spirits would hold a grudge some wouldn't?

This poor building sounds abused. I am sure that its spirits need therapy. Don't do the grenade trick again or I will call Spirit social services and send the spirits away to live with their Dad.

I always thought that spirits were individuals... Maybe not necessarily human-level intelligence, but somewhat aware.
Like animals. Kicking one puppy isn't going to have the whole of caninehood after you, but that one little dog would grow up fearing/loathing you.
*sniffles at thought of kicking puppies*

But if Free Spirits are intelligent, and any kind of spirit can theoretically become a free spirit, wouldn't all spirits be intelligent?

Well, IIRC, ally spirits can turn on their former masters if treated badly. So I'd say even "basic" spirits might have some grudge over something like getting blown to smithereens by 20 kg's of plastique. Of course, if they are inviduals, the possibility of conjuring that same spirit will be really slim, or in case of heart spirits, the case might be just the opposite, if the conjuring was done in the same place.

Well im sure Buttercup has a SIN, fake one mind or Corp but she has one no doubt

Yeah. A Yamatetsu SIN. Even odds, she's a player. Blood In The Boardroom has all you need to know about her.

It may be a left over qurik from my D&D days. But the way I see it, all spirits and elementals are not only intelligent, but have distinct personalities as well. I pretty much treat them as just another kind of NPC. Let's me mess with players minds alot.

Ok we played this weekend.

Didn't go back to the house to try and summon anything.

However, my watchers are getting weirder!

it actually adds some interest to the character.

Granted watchers are kind of dumb to begin with. The last one was a force 4 with a serious paranoid streak.

I tried to conjure up a city spirit to take care of some rival gangers, but i blew my roll to summon and blew my roll to resist drain due to wounds and low charisma

I would interpret the spirits reaction as something like this: "Summoner asks me to carry some trinkets into my house, suddenly I explode, searing back to my native metaplane. Oh well!" In my opinion your average nature spirit has little understanding or interest in (meta)human affairs. So I think a sort of absent "dont-give-a-damn" attitude would be appropriate. Alternetively ignorant, unfocused curiosity. Spirits may be intelligent, but their minds and thoughts are completely alien. Free spirits are essentially "born" at the moment they gain freedom. In addition, only spirits that have had extensive contact with humans become free spirits. As I see it free spirits are the only spirits that have a shot at understanding the physical plane at all. They are, after all, the only spirits with the ability to learn (as in improving themselves).

What do you think about that?

(PS. As a gamemaster I would still have spirits dislike cruel summoners. They can tell stuff like that about a person even if they don´t understand the persons actions)

Nope.

Why do you ask?

That's pretty impressive, ive never seen someone score 8 sucesses summoning a watcher to get a force 4, that's take like a summoning skill of around 9 or 10!

Tutor.

R

Whoops!

/slaps forehead

Maybe GM and Grimmy need to reread the rules on Watchers!!!

I may have slipped one past my GM on this one.

Boy were you guys right!

I went home and checked MitS for the rules on watchers.

I guess i just got so wrapped up in the story and the excitement of the situation that i for got to "Roll" play.

Next time i'll lawyer up roll play right!

according to Mits

Conjuring test versus force

Each success = 1 hour of service

Drain = (Force + successes)L

Okay! Unless, of course I'm wrong!