SR4A has rules for group sorcery and group initiation, but not for group summoning. That seems like a pretty major oversight to me. Groups of wizards/sorcerors/what-have-you summoning enormously powerful entities are a staple of fantasy tales. I'm going to take a whack at cooking up some house rules for this, based on the ritual spellcasting rules; take a look and tell me what you think.
Requirements
As in ritual sorcery, all members of the ritual team must be of the same tradition. The ritual must take place in a magical lodge appropriate to the team's tradition, and the Force of that lodge limits both the number of magicians who may participate and the Force of the spirit that may be summoned. Unlike ritual sorcery, where the Force of the spell can be no higher than the Force of the lodge, ritualists may summon a spirit of up to double the Force of the lodge; i.e., a Force 4 lodge allows the summoning of up to a Force 8 spirit. The size of the ritual team is further limited by the lowest Ritual Summoning (note that this is a new skill) rating among the members; to adapt the example from the book, Harry, Al, and Rowan have Ritual Summoning skills of 3, 5, and 4, respectively. Their Force 4 lodge would allow one more member to participate, but Harry's 3 skill rating precludes a fourth member from joining.
Team Leader
Each ritual summoning team must have a leader. This is normally, but not necessarily, the most powerful or skilled magician. The leader's Ritual Summoning + Magic forms the basic dice pool used to determine the ritual's success; the leader's Magic attribute also limits the Force of the spirit to be summoned. The ritual team may summon a spirit whose Force is up to the team leader's Magic x 2. If Al is the team leader, and his magic is 5, he could potentially use a ritual to summon up to a Force 10 spirit; note, however, that the limit of the lodge's Force is still in place. Because Harry, Al, and Rowan are only in a Force 4 lodge, they can still only summon up to a Force 8 spirit.
The Ritual
Ritual Summoning is performed in the same manner as regular Summoning, except that the ritual takes a number of hours equal to (12 + spirit's Force - team leader's Magic). If Harry, Al, and Rowan are summoning a Force 8 spirit, the ritual will take them (12 + 8 - 5 = 15) hours. When the ritual begins, the dice pool is equal to the team leader's Ritual Summoning + Magic. Each additional member of the team makes a Ritual Spellcasting + Magic test; their hits are added as a dice pool bonus to the leader's pool, as per the rules for Teamwork Tests, p. 65 of SR4A. Individuals may use foci to supplement their own tests.
Noticing Ritual Summoning
There is a chance that any being capable of astral perception within (Force of the spirit being summoned x 100) meters of the lodge may notice the change in the ambient mana. The gamemaster makes an Assensing + Intuition (20 - spirit Force, 1 hour) Extended Test for each such being beginning one hour after the start of the ritual to determine if they notice anything unusual. In extreme cases (GM's discretion), there may be signs noticeable in the physical world; i.e., summoning a high-Force fire spirit may cause all flames within (Force x 100) meters to burn blue for the duration of the ritual.
Ritual Drain
At the end of the ritual, each member of the team must resist Drain equal to twice the hits (not net hits) generated by the spirit on the Opposed Summoning Test (minimum 2 DV). This applies whether or not the team leader generated any net hits in the Summoning Test - that is, whether a spirit appeared or not. For the purpose of the determining whether summoning Drain inflicts Stun or Physical damage, add the Magic attributes of all the ritual participants together; i.e., Harry's Magic is 3, and Rowan's Magic is 4, so they and Al (Magic 5) cannot summon a spirit powerful enough to inflict Physical Drain damage (Force 13 or higher).
Full Version: Ritual conjuring
I'd go for some sort of Invoking within the process...
I would presume the leader would also be the one who the spirit is bound to or for additional drain you could pass the spirit off to another member of the ritual without using a service.
Overall I like the idea it sounds pretty good and has enough limiting factors within it to not be a instant win if used by players or npc's.
Could also be a nice plot device to use in a game too especially with the idea of changes to similar elements / stuff around the site giving abit of a hint as to whats going on.
Overall I like the idea it sounds pretty good and has enough limiting factors within it to not be a instant win if used by players or npc's.
Could also be a nice plot device to use in a game too especially with the idea of changes to similar elements / stuff around the site giving abit of a hint as to whats going on.
And who gets the services the spirit owes the group? Does the whole group has to order the spirit or is it the ritual leader that gets to decide what the spirit should do?
-CJ
-CJ
You should mention what happens if either the leader or any of the team members pass out from drain.
I'd say if one of the lackeys passes out or dies the ritual succeeds, but, if the leader can't deal with the drain, the spirit goes free and possibly attacks the summoning group.
Unless I'm mistaken this mechanism does not allow more powerful spirits to be summoned. All the leader gets is a few more dice to get more services, but the drain is not mitigated, which usually is the limiting factor IMHO. No matter whether it goes on the stun or physical monitor, if the monitor is filled the leader is incapacitated and the summoning fails.
Maybe drop the mechanism to keep stun damage even at high force but use a teamwork test for the leader's drain. The other members will have to cope with the drain on their own though, possibly with a negative dicepool modifier, but their unconsciousness or death does not hinder the summoning.
I'd say if one of the lackeys passes out or dies the ritual succeeds, but, if the leader can't deal with the drain, the spirit goes free and possibly attacks the summoning group.
Unless I'm mistaken this mechanism does not allow more powerful spirits to be summoned. All the leader gets is a few more dice to get more services, but the drain is not mitigated, which usually is the limiting factor IMHO. No matter whether it goes on the stun or physical monitor, if the monitor is filled the leader is incapacitated and the summoning fails.
Maybe drop the mechanism to keep stun damage even at high force but use a teamwork test for the leader's drain. The other members will have to cope with the drain on their own though, possibly with a negative dicepool modifier, but their unconsciousness or death does not hinder the summoning.
maybe something similar to the GGD have part of the drain go to the rest of the group maybe double every point they take from the leader so if
total drain 10p
leader takes 4p of it leaving 6p to be taken by the other two in the team doubled to 12p gives the other two people take 6p each to balance it out. Overall drain higher then before but the leader much more likely to survive and keep control of the summoning.
Could mean that in theory you could get a major summoning this way without to much risk of it going tits up.
Say a group of five each with Ritual Summoning 5 magic of 5 with a force five lodge (pretty strong group I know but you would be wouldnt you).
Force 10 fire spirit
Odds are it would edge test this giving 20 dice and a average hits of 7
Four memebers of the team do a teamwork test with a dice pool of 10 each giving a average hits of 14 but the bonus is capped by the team leaders skill at 5
Team leader goes for the Summoning with a dice pool of 15 gets 5 hits then edges to reroll the failed and gets another 4 hits giving him a total of 2 services.
Drain of 14s spead over the group
Leader taking 4s drain to roll against
Each of the other four taking 5s drain to roll against (remaining 10 times 2 devided by 4)
Edited for silly mistake
total drain 10p
leader takes 4p of it leaving 6p to be taken by the other two in the team doubled to 12p gives the other two people take 6p each to balance it out. Overall drain higher then before but the leader much more likely to survive and keep control of the summoning.
Could mean that in theory you could get a major summoning this way without to much risk of it going tits up.
Say a group of five each with Ritual Summoning 5 magic of 5 with a force five lodge (pretty strong group I know but you would be wouldnt you).
Force 10 fire spirit
Odds are it would edge test this giving 20 dice and a average hits of 7
Four memebers of the team do a teamwork test with a dice pool of 10 each giving a average hits of 14 but the bonus is capped by the team leaders skill at 5
Team leader goes for the Summoning with a dice pool of 15 gets 5 hits then edges to reroll the failed and gets another 4 hits giving him a total of 2 services.
Drain of 14s spead over the group
Leader taking 4s drain to roll against
Each of the other four taking 5s drain to roll against (remaining 10 times 2 devided by 4)
Edited for silly mistake
QUOTE (Lansdren @ May 25 2010, 12:36 PM) 
Team leader goes for the binding with a dice pool of 15 gets 5 hits then edges to reroll the failed and gets another 4 hits giving him a total of 2 services.
Actually, this ritual just covers the Summoning not the Binding. For that you would need yet another ritual and another skill Riutal Binding.
If you allow one in your game, imho you should also have rules for the other.
-CJ
QUOTE (CeeJay @ May 25 2010, 12:19 PM)
Actually, this ritual just covers the Summoning not the Binding. For that you would need yet another ritual and another skill Riutal Binding.
If you allow one in your game, imho you should also have rules for the other.
-CJ
If you allow one in your game, imho you should also have rules for the other.
-CJ
Edited for silly mistake,
but your right If you have one then something similar should do for the binding.
I'm more comfortable with leaving Invoking as an option rather than an integral part of ritual summoning. I would tend to say that the team leader has to know the Invoking metamagic, but the other participants don't. Any other participants who do know Invoking could use teamwork to aid the team leader's Invoking test, however.
I meant to address the issue of who gets to command the spirit. The "default" arrangement is that the spirit owes whatever services it owes to the team as a whole. Any member may command it, expending a service as normal. If Harry, Al, and Rowan summon their Force 8 fire spirit and get three services, each of them could give it one command, or Harry could give two commands and Rowan one, or any other combination totaling three services. If all participants agree, the spirit may be answerable only to the team leader or to any other individual team member.
CeeJay does raise an excellent point: if you do allow ritual summoning, you should also allow ritual binding. Not sure if binding should be a separate ritual or an optional addendum to ritual summoning, though.
I meant to address the issue of who gets to command the spirit. The "default" arrangement is that the spirit owes whatever services it owes to the team as a whole. Any member may command it, expending a service as normal. If Harry, Al, and Rowan summon their Force 8 fire spirit and get three services, each of them could give it one command, or Harry could give two commands and Rowan one, or any other combination totaling three services. If all participants agree, the spirit may be answerable only to the team leader or to any other individual team member.
CeeJay does raise an excellent point: if you do allow ritual summoning, you should also allow ritual binding. Not sure if binding should be a separate ritual or an optional addendum to ritual summoning, though.
I would not condone this sort of procedure at my table. I am of the firm belief that even low level spirits are more than sufficiently powerful as is. The benefits of ritual spellcasting isn't in the power of the spell but in targeting individuals of whom you cannot see.
Having a magic group aid a summoner can be handled with teamwork rules and that alone is almost too powerful. There is quite simply little need to come up with anything more complex especially if your goal is to allow magicians to summon incredibly powerful spirits. That is better left in the hands of sinister magicians attempting to breach the void and summon horrors and demons and not something that even requires detailed rules. For if the rules exist it will undoubtedly fall ito the hands of the players.
Having a magic group aid a summoner can be handled with teamwork rules and that alone is almost too powerful. There is quite simply little need to come up with anything more complex especially if your goal is to allow magicians to summon incredibly powerful spirits. That is better left in the hands of sinister magicians attempting to breach the void and summon horrors and demons and not something that even requires detailed rules. For if the rules exist it will undoubtedly fall ito the hands of the players.
QUOTE (The Mighty Sherpa @ May 25 2010, 11:54 AM)
I would not condone this sort of procedure at my table. I am of the firm belief that even low level spirits are more than sufficiently powerful as is. The benefits of ritual spellcasting isn't in the power of the spell but in targeting individuals of whom you cannot see.
Having a magic group aid a summoner can be handled with teamwork rules and that alone is almost too powerful. There is quite simply little need to come up with anything more complex especially if your goal is to allow magicians to summon incredibly powerful spirits. That is better left in the hands of sinister magicians attempting to breach the void and summon horrors and demons and not something that even requires detailed rules. For if the rules exist it will undoubtedly fall ito the hands of the players.
Having a magic group aid a summoner can be handled with teamwork rules and that alone is almost too powerful. There is quite simply little need to come up with anything more complex especially if your goal is to allow magicians to summon incredibly powerful spirits. That is better left in the hands of sinister magicians attempting to breach the void and summon horrors and demons and not something that even requires detailed rules. For if the rules exist it will undoubtedly fall ito the hands of the players.
I cannot agree with this enough...
Keep the Faith
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