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pster
If you multicast in 1 complex action, u divide the spellcasting+magic pool right?
What happens if you specialize in 1 category of spellcasting. For example if you have spellcasting 6 (specialize in combat spells) and magic 6. And you decide to cast 2 stunbolts in 1 initiative pass.
Would you divide the +2 from specialize as well or would you get the +2 for each test. From my understanding specialize skills gives you a +2 to each test.
First stunbolt: (6+6 divide by 2 =6) +2 (specialize) Total 8 Drain of force/2 -1 +1(for the extra spell)
Second stunbolt : (6+6 divide by 2 =6) +2 (specialize) Total 8 Drain of force/2 -1 +1(for the extra spell)

There's no penalties for second target like for melee or range combat right? you add +1 drain to every spell for each additional spell.
Am I getting this right?
Is this the same for mentor spirit and foci bonus? That you don't divide their bonus but add them to each spell test.
Yerameyahu
It does sound crazy, doesn't it? biggrin.gif
Mx
QUOTE (pster @ May 28 2010, 06:23 AM) *
Is this the same for mentor spirit and foci bonus? That you don't divide their bonus but add them to each spell test.

Yeap, thats why multicasting combat spells is actually a very valid tactic(as opposed to shooting guns akimbo) if your an combat mage with at least a spec and mentor bonus to combat spell.
I would most of the time use two spell of lower force in that case and with a good foci(force3+) i would seriously start to concider triplecasting in most situations.
pster
If that is the case, is it the same for melee and range combat specialisation? Get to add the +2 for each target but just have to consider the -2 to a second target, -4 to a third target etc.?
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (pster @ May 28 2010, 08:18 AM) *
If that is the case, is it the same for melee and range combat specialisation? Get to add the +2 for each target but just have to consider the -2 to a second target, -4 to a third target etc.?
For mundane combat it is mentioned explicitly that all modifiers are applied after the split. In ideal situations this is great, but with poor visibility and possibly damage modifiers, this looks a a lot less appealing. Don't forget the penalty for the off-hand unless you have ambidexterity.

In ranged or melee combat you are better off to shoot once with each weapon or to attack with one weapon and use full defense with the other. For the latter you need a maneuver though.
The Lorax
Like other people have said, it basically works the same way with shooting two guns or using two melee weapons at the same time. You still end up using less dice while your opponents resist each attack with their full resist stats, so it is hardly overpowered or broken. Its just another option at your disposal and good for taking out mooks quickly. Any enemy worth a darn is just going to laugh at you if you cripple yourself through those rules when attacking them.
Lansdren
I would also point out that whilst adding only one to the drain code in each spell may not look like much but on average you need three extra dice in your drain soak roll to cover it and you will be rolling the whole thing twice.

Multi casting is very good in those make or break situations where you really need to put someone down (two moderate level spells can be far greater then one overcast monstrosity) but odds are you will feel the pain
Mx
QUOTE (The Lorax @ May 28 2010, 10:42 AM) *
Like other people have said, it basically works the same way with shooting two guns or using two melee weapons at the same time. You still end up using less dice while your opponents resist each attack with their full resist stats, so it is hardly overpowered or broken. Its just another option at your disposal and good for taking out mooks quickly. Any enemy worth a darn is just going to laugh at you if you cripple yourself through those rules when attacking them.

While that last part is tru for guns and melee, its not so much true for spell.

QUOTE (Lansdren @ May 28 2010, 11:02 AM) *
I would also point out that whilst adding only one to the drain code in each spell may not look like much but on average you need three extra dice in your drain soak roll to cover it and you will be rolling the whole thing twice.

If you can reliably soak the drain from say force 9 stun bolt, you can just as well soak the drain from two force 7 stunbolts and most likely can do more damage.
Dakka Dakka
Not quite sure if several low level spells are better than one high level spell against a single target. Guess it depends on how many dice pool modifiers you have. With Specialization, Mentor Spirit, and a Force 4 Power Focus this sounds good, but without most of the modifiers it won't be that great.
Lansdren
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 28 2010, 10:24 AM) *
If you can reliably soak the drain from say force 9 stun bolt, you can just as well soak the drain from two force 7 stunbolts and most likely can do more damage.



Eventually eveyone takes drain granted sometimes its not huge but it only takes that one point of stun to trip you over the limit and start taking modifers
The Lorax
It depends entirely on your target. If they have high magic resistance thanks to high stats and counterspelling or worse arcane arrester then youre waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better off with a single casting.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 28 2010, 10:27 AM) *
Not quite sure if several low level spells are better than one high level spell against a single target. Guess it depends on how many dice pool modifiers you have. With Specialization, Mentor Spirit, and a Force 4 Power Focus this sounds good, but without most of the modifiers it won't be that great.

This interested me so I ran through a little example (with lots of assumptions, so it's highly speculative).

Magician casting Manabolt with Magic 5, Spellcasting 5, Combat Spells specialisation +2, Mentor bonus +2, Power Focus 2, Drain Resistance 9 (which I have found to be fairly typical)
Target with Willpower 3 and Counterspelling 3

So expect 3 hits on drain resistance and 2 hits on spell resistance.
Assume DP is split equally.

One cast at Force 10
DP = 16 => 5 hits expected - 2 resistance = 13 DV
Drain = 5P - 3 resistance = 2P

Two casts at Force 5
DP = 11(x2) => 4(x2) hits expected - 2(x2) resistance = 7(x2) DV = 14 DV
Drain = 2+1(x2)S - 3(x2) resistance = 0S [but probably 1 or 2]

Five casts at Force 2
DP = 8(x5) => 3(x5) hits expected - 2(x5) resistance = 3(x5) DV = 15 DV
Drain = 1+4(x5)S - 3(x5) resistance = 10S

So with parameters close to those I've assumed, multicasting is a good way to avoid the pain of overcasting without loss of effect but taking it right down to casting lots of tiny force spells racks the drain right up without any notable benefit. Also, with that many rolls at that low a DP there is a reasonable chance some of the casts will be resisted completely so the effect would probably be lower than otherwise. The middle ground is by far the most attractive.

Not cast iron conclusions (and I'm sure there will be some defiance of my many assumptions) but interesting none-the-less.
Dakka Dakka
Even Force rating are inefficient. Force 1-3 generate the same drain with the Manabolt so going lower than 3 does not make sense. With a stunbolt it is even up to force 5 only 1S/P drain
Mx
QUOTE (Aerospider @ May 28 2010, 12:20 PM) *
So with parameters close to those I've assumed, multicasting is a good way to avoid the pain of overcasting without loss of effect but taking it right down to casting lots of tiny force spells racks the drain right up without any notable benefit. Also, with that many rolls at that low a DP there is a reasonable chance some of the casts will be resisted completely so the effect would probably be lower than otherwise. The middle ground is by far the most attractive.

Not cast iron conclusions (and I'm sure there will be some defiance of my many assumptions) but interesting none-the-less.

Thats why i never succusted anythink more then triplecasting, after that the +1drain/spell juast becomes too much even for my combat mages drain pool of 14 (for fetished spells= and plateted factories.
But unless i redo the build a little and get him a force3+ power/spellcasting foci, i would only use douplecasting with him(9dice per spell)

But ofcource there is the ridiculous multicasting build:
Dwarf
Magic 5
spellcasting 6
spec combat spells
mentor bonus for combat spell
force 6 focus
willpower 7
logic 6
cerebral booster 3
Blood fetish for stun bolt
Psyche (for the +2 to will power)

so thats a drain resistance pool of 7+2+6+3+4=22 dice so on avarage can soak 7 points of drain
a force 5 stunbolt is 1 points of drain so we can cast 6 of those before the drain is 7
Dice pool for thse spells is 12/12/12/12/12/11 so on avarage 4 hits and we assume 2 hits on resistance:
DV = 6*7S = 42S
Little over kill for one enemy so lets change that to stunball, a force 5 has drain code of 3 so we can cast 4 of those
Dice pools are 13/13/13/12 so still 4 hits and we again assume 2 hits on resistance for all targets.
DV = 4*7 = 28S for everyone the caster can see in a a circle with 5 meter radius
PatB
QUOTE (Aerospider @ May 28 2010, 05:20 AM) *
Five casts at Force 2
DP = 8(x5) => 3(x5) hits expected - 2(x5) resistance = 3(x5) DV = 15 DV
Drain = 1+4(x5)S - 3(x5) resistance = 10S

There's an error in your calculations based on a rule: with spells, number of hits is limited by the spell force (SR4A, p.182, under section Force), so this would become

DP = 8(x5) => 2(x5) hits expected - 2(x5) resistance = 0(x5) DV = 0 DV
... for the same 10S drain
Aerospider
QUOTE (PatB @ May 28 2010, 01:01 PM) *
There's an error in your calculations based on a rule: with spells, number of hits is limited by the spell force (SR4A, p.182, under section Force), so this would become

DP = 8(x5) => 2(x5) hits expected - 2(x5) resistance = 0(x5) DV = 0 DV
... for the same 10S drain

I had just noticed and was about to ask whether that rule still applied to boosting combat spells. Thanks.
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