Ok, the Rebar shooting troll HAS been done to death but I just had to see what could be done.

I take the same thing I did with Hurley the combat biker and made him fully a streetsam.

Cybertorso and X2 str modified cyberlimbs and restricted gear for availability.

Character cyberlimb Strength 22
Specialization on Bows (8D6)
Agility: 5

Minimum Strength bow 22+2 (24P)
Exploding Arrow: +1 (25P)

Smartgun link +2 to hit.

Dicepool: 15D6
Base damage code of 25P.

What space age materials must arrow and bow be made of?

I'm thinking of taking Bow Rating X Arrow cost to get the materials needed for the arrow not to simply schatter when fired.

Bows are limited to a maximum Strength rating of 12. And getting one above a rating of 6 has to wait until after character creation.

Sounds sensible - I assume that a Restricted Gear quality might help.

Still, STR 12 bow is still 15P with an exploding arrow.

Restricted Gear is for bypassing the Availibility limits not Rating limits. There is no way to get any gear above a Rating of 6 without GM permission.

cue people callign for nerf aros . .

You can get the (theoretical, breaking-the-rules) damage up another 3 points if you use military grade armor with strength boosters. Since you're probably talking a military-grade bow at this point anyway (hey, they gotta shoot down t-birds somehow...)

Something good for pinkskins, I think...

Maybe not. Was just looking through SR4a and found something:

Outside of the modification for certain arrowheads, sounds like the max is capped at 18P.

That is a bizarre quote. I went to check it, and couldn't find it in my meatbook copy. Instead, mine says this, and my PDF is even further changed


compared with


Meatbook also has nuyen-per-rating pricing for arrows(how stupid is that), and the PDF just has a flat cost.

Thanks a fucking lot, catalyst.

My PDF, page 316, says max strength rating at 8.

Mine says otherwise. Email the people you bought your PDF from -- I think they'll send a free "updated" version after you verify that it's you.

Story of my life! I'm out of date, and don't even know it.

Basically, the "maximum damage value" at x1.5 just keeps low-strength people from doing much damage with a bow. With a rating of 12, your bow DV is going to be 14. Net hits will increase the damage taken by the target, but are not capped in any direct way, so getting 10 hits on a roll will, by RAW, give you a modified DV of 24.

I thought the 1.5x cap meant Str-12 bow, max DV 18? *Including* net hits. Where'd you get 14 from?

Base damage for a bow is (Strength minimum +2)P. This means a Str 12 Bow would have a base damage of 14P.

Max DV is max DV. It doesn't matter where the increased DV comes from, you can only do so much damage. Now if you had some specialty Green Arrow-type arrows with ex-ex heads and other funky stuff, then I could see an increase in DV over the max. But, with normal stuff, a cap is a cap.

I don't have my book handy, but I have to ask about a STR 2 bow. Would you rule that it does 3 or 4 damage? 2 + 2 = 4 for base damage, but 2x1.5=3 for max damage.

With a 1.5 max until you get to a STR 6 bow every net hit over the 1st is a waste.

It's all very goofy. :/ Net hits should not be capped, and the bows should simply stop at Strength X (12, I guess, but whatever works). The 1.5x is just odd.

Maybe to keep it from being better in almost every way compared to most hand held autocannons?

That's assuming RAW caps the max MODIFIED DV to 18 (12*1.5). I still see it as max base DV. Either way, even with a 18 DV cap, it's not like you're often going to have a character getting 7+ net hits *consistently*.

I'm not asking the reason for it, I'm saying it's *weird* and unsatisfactory. I know it's a balance rule.

Anyway, I can't see why you'd cap the base DV, because the base DV is always going to be Str + 2 (right?), and you *already* capped Str to 12, I thought. :/ So, it must refer to net hits, which is just plain strange in Shadowrun. It's a fix for superbows, but not a nice one.

I'm thinking a diminishing returns range-and-DV formula for bows, instead of the normal Str-linear one. Plus, a Strength 12 bow might be huge, no matter the materials science involved. Maybe it makes one hell of a TWANG! when fired, or the spears—uh, arrows, whistle like meteorites. It depends on the GM, I guess.

It's a balance rule we didn't need. It's a fucking trollbow. It's seven feet tall and made of wicked titanium alloys and buckytubes, and the arrows are some sort of plasma-coated iridium/uranium composite that self-sharpens and happens to combust when it aerosolizes on it's way through rolled homogenous steel. I don't care if the book says they're less restricted than submachineguns, one look at that and security is gonna know who the real troublemaker is

According to the updated german Version this is correct
Max STR for Bows is 8 Max Dam for a normal Arrow is 10K
(no x1,5 Rule anymore)

with an updated Dance
Medicineman

Actually that's about right. I love archery IRL, and I handcarved a bow that was splitting stock arrows with the force of the release. So yeah, you need stronger arrows to keep up with more pull from bows.

Hehe, Shrike30, I think I mentioned some of that. A stupid-strong trollbow *should* be balanced by being beyond unconcealable, and each arrow *should* cost more than some whole firearms.

Well, in SR4 with Memory Metals, the Bow could double as a Belt too.

That is an interesting thought...

Keep the Faith

i figure, if you can use it for swords, why not for bows?
and with the whole bow being made of metal, it should be able to resist the forces put on it too.
it's basically really one of the old leaf springs from oldtimer cars made into a bow by then.

Sure, I understand... it is an intriguing thought, no doubt...

Keep the Faith

don't tell me you of all people did not think of this yet O.o

Since I have only ever had a single character that ever really used a bow, it was not something that I had concerned myself with... The biggest drawback of the bow is the obviousness of it... using memory metals would work for the bow itself in this regard, but you still have problems with the arrows...

I do like the idea though... I thinks it deserves some consideration at the least...

Keep the Faith

Well, do you remember these silly little slap on bracelets you probably had as a child?
now imagine a troll with several dozends of these. there are your arrows ^^

Except those "Bracelets," for a Troll Bow with a Draw of probably 42" or so (My Bow has a 31" draw), will be so totally wound around the arm (or leg, or whatever) that they would be very difficult to employ in any decent amount of time... Though I do like the way the idea is forming...

Keep the Faith

Or one wide belt for the bow and several thin betls for the arrows or something ^^

That's handy for transport, but the memory stuff takes time to change forms, so it'd be awful in a fight. I'd also expect that to increase the cost even further on bow and arrows both, and the arrowheads wouldn't roll up if they're something like explosive.

Definitely useful, but not an no-problems item. It's not that bows are (completely) stupid, it's just stupid if they beat heavy weapons.

Indeed... can't see why that would not work...

Keep the Faith

I was thinking about how to stat a Memory Metal Bow.

After consulting the Victorinox memory blade stats, it seems that "The memory blade requires a complete Combat Turn to harden and become flexible again"
So, about 3 seconds.

For a Bow, I'd probably go with Easy Breakdown(Powered) - one action for the bow, one action for the string.
Possibly Ceramic/Plasteel components to reflect that its not made out of wood or plastic.
Possibly a 1-slot Powered Slight Mount - Laser Pointers(Sights) are hardly illegal to carry around, and would let you slap a +1 dice laser sight on the bow as part of assembling it(well, with a Simple Action)

… A bow has weapon (gun) mod slots? :/

That could be argued, sure, as there are examples of Melee Weapons with Customized Grip right in the descriptions...
If they had no slots, they would not have the capacity for Customized Grips...

Keep the Faith

Maybe they have integral ones. The Weapon Accessory section specifically refers only to firearms, but the Weapon *Mod* section says 'any kind of weapon, but mainly firearms'. So, GM decides what makes sense. I wonder if they deserve 6 slots.

Hmm. Some things to consider:

The memory knife costs over 60x what a knife costs (although it actually has no direct counterpart in stats), and is 14R.
Arsenal already has a collapsible bow, with reduced pull, 25% higher cost, and Restricted legality. It is *very* slow: 5 Combat Turns.

So, we'd expect the memory version of the bow to be *very* expensive, Restricted or worse, and high availability. Ditto for each arrow.

What about chameleon coating and a laser sight? >.>

Would a laser sight help for a bow and arrow? :/ Even if common sense doesn't convince, it's a 'firearm' accessory.

You could make an argument for Smartlink I would wager... as a Smartlink can be programmed for the weapon it is used with (it would have to be actually as weapon categories have different characteristics, as well as different ammunition within the category...

But I would say that most weapon modifications would be GM approval for a Bow or melee weapon... Some things make sense, and others do not...

But anyways...

Keep the Faith

Regarding the memory-metal bow, isn't a modern bow much too complicated for that? This isn't a Victorinox memory knife (single strip of metal), it's a whole system of pulleys and widgets, right?

And this, which isn't a question, but sounds like a *great* Critical Glitch result for a crazy doombow: "Due to the greater forces that a compound bow places on the arrow, wooden arrows may break when shot from a compound bow, possibly driving the broken shaft into the archer's arm, or the arrow may shatter because of the changes in force applied to it during release." Just rewrite that for crazy arrows instead of wooden ones.

There are laser sights for bows IRL. Today.
Smartlink I'm not so sure on, considering there are no real mechanical parts to a bow. A crossbow I could see, though.

Chameleon coating seems pretty reasonable too.

Jesus, how does *that* work?

Roughly like the T-1000 Terminator does, I'd wager.

I am confused. People are angry that bows could, once upon a time, be terribly broken with the amount of damage they do. But now that its mostly fixed people are upset that theres a limit???

Of course, we High-STR Troll-Fans are angry that our favourite toy which set us apart from the whimpy elf was made so that it is not doing that anymore . .
And only those who want realism in a game with magic were ever upset about bows having been able to punch through whole buildings.
Even if the built that was needed to do that could do little else.

I am fairly sure that STR 12 is well above an elfs augmented maximum. And doing 18P damage with a bow is by itself pretty darn scary considering thats better than assault cannons and the like. So I really dont get the crying. Even if you go with the STR 8 arrow 12 limit, thats still crazy compared to other weapon choices.

If you need broken rules to be happy I do not know what to tell you. Those fixed rules are probably some of the best things the game has done in a long time.

Elf has a natural maximum in STR of 6. Augmented 9
Exceptional Attribute says it's now 7/10.
Genetic Stuff or Metagenetic Improvement makes this into 8/12.
And you could technically still go higher.
Also, Powered Armor allows for more Strength too.
Or redlining Cyberlimbs. And Redlining them to 12 if you allready have them at 10 or so is not that bad i think.
Or Drugs. There's many ways for those damn elves to get strong enough to do what only Trolls or Odysseus/Ulysses 31 should be able to do . .