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xizor
it just occurred to me that there is no contradiction between the barrel reduction and getting a sawed off barrel, so do you think that i could get a shot gun with both a reduced barrel and have it sawed off later?
would this give me heavy pistol ranges - 10% or just heavy pistol ranges?
would the conceal modifiers stack?
I turn it over to the readers here at dumpshock to turn me from the path of the munchkin biggrin.gif
sidartha
In the interest of stating the obvious, Sawing the barrel off is a barrel reduction
You get the exact same effects I.E. reduced range and higher concealability. Sorry if I sound like an ass but I can't help it
mcb
One difference might be that with barrel reduction you still have the adjustable choke but now on a shorter barrel. If you take a hack-saw and cut the barrel off then I would say that you would no longer have any way to adjust the choke and would be stuck with the most open choke, a 2 if you are using the rules as written.
Tziluthi
Don't forget adding bullpup. That's another 2 conc. as well as 1 recoil. Have a shotgun smaller than some pistols.
Kagetenshi
Any more reduction and you've got a shotpistol. That's entirely possible, but carries its own problems.

~J
Cain
To answer the original question: Yes, they do stack; you can buy a short-barreled shotgun and then saw off the barrel entirely. You end up with a shotpistol-- your range is Heavy Pistol -10%. I'd also say that you won't be able to use any barrel-mounted accessories, on the grounds that you don't have any barrel left.
mcb
They may stack but does it make physical sense? You can't cut the barrel of a pump or semi-auto shorter then the magazine. You can't cut a double down more then a few inches into the forearm or the gun falls apart.
Nath
Did Cannon Companion firearms creation rules ever make sense ?
Kagetenshi
If you try hard enough, you can cut a shotgun down to where it just covers the shell. It's not something you're going to be wanting to use, sorta an ultra-emergency can of mace, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.

~J
mcb
You could cut a shotgun down that far and the cartridge would fire but not many guns could function with a three inch barrel. The only modern one I can think of off the top of my head would be some of the double barrel pocket derringers that are chambered in 3" 410 shotshells. When you fire them you can actually see the unfolded end of the shell sticking out the end of the barrel.

But most typical shotgun actions (pump, semi-auto, break action) cannot be cut down shorter then the length of the forearm or they simply fall apart. And on top of that once the barrels gets that short you are going to start loosing muzzle velocity and even if they are choked it will be far less effective on such short barrels.

There were also howdah pistols, usually side by side, occasionaly over under muzzle loading black powder shotguns in pistol form. They were usually 16 or 12gage and had ~9-15inch barrels and were ment for close defence when tiger or other dangerous game hunting. Especially when the tiger was trying to climb the elephant you were riding. This was in the age before repeating rifles and the howdah was there if you single shot blackpowder rifle let you down.

mcb
Drain Brain
Enough CC jigerypokery... why would anyone want anything but the holy grail of shotgun goodness, the sawnoff cutdown side-by-side coach gun, or "I wanna be Mad Max" gun?

Rah! Get me a thigh riding holster and some badly made leather armour and we're away!

Note that you can't build one of these with the CC rules either, because break action weapons aren't compatible with increased ammo, and there's no "second barrel" option...

Duh.
gknoy
Of course, IIRC, in some sourcebook somewhere is the Sandler MadMax shotgun ... or at least, it's in the NSRCG datafiles. wink.gif

I'd consider that to BE the gun you describe. =)
kevyn668
So, if I'm reading this right you could have a SA shotgun that looks like the MGL-6.... okay, maybe a little bigger than the MGL-6. smile.gif
simonw2000
Here's a kickass gun for ya!

Stealth Sliver
Conceal 7 (Invisible to MAD)
Ammo 10c
Mode SA
Damage 9S (f)
Weight 1.20
Cost 1,800
RC 0

Type: Heavy Pistol
Ranges: 5,20,40,60
Slivergun and Silencer
Kagetenshi
Don't forget the (f) tag. Very important detail.

Also, this gun is, IMO, not nearly as good as the preexisting AVS, though very marginally smaller.

~J
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