The Tir Tairngire you see in Shadows of North America had two ironclad directives:
1. Incorporate the events of Mike Mulvihill's novel, Private Agenda. This includes the Lofwyr/Aithne/Oakforest/Hestaby business. I think a summary or something was posted at one time explaining the Machiavellian events, but the novel itself was never released. Core events of the Salish-Shidhe were also driven by a novel (which I doubt made Andy Frades any happier than it made me).
2. Make it more playable. I do not recall seeing other proposals for the Tir so I'm not sure what other ideas people had cooked up. If you take a look at the original Tir Tairngire book (written by Nigel Findley himself in 1993) you'll find that the entire book is pretty much about spreading more Earthdawn connections and the description of a location at odds with the themes of Shadowrun (e.g. it had impenetrable borders, superman special ops, mystic sites of world shattering opaqueness, deadly efficient internal security, no extraterritorial megacorps, and was a nexus of Immortal Elf shenanigans!). I decided economic collapse made the most sense.



If I had known the events would be wrapped up so fast I would have had Rinelle overthrow the government in a glorified Orange Revolution. It was intended to act as a longer-term plot point for shadowrunners operating in the region (Stick it to the Princes? Or lord over the commoners as a hired enforcer?), which is why in SoNA it was written to sound like there was an actual guerrilla war going on (and a particularly vicious one at that, given who the elves behind the throne were). Yet the major upheaval was in 2062, with the Rinelle issue wrapped up by 2063. That was not the design intent or the assumptions I was operating under.

An Aside on Ehran
I REALLY liked the character of Ehran - he's the only metacharacter in the entire Tir I felt mattered outside of the immediate story narrative. I could never shake the feeling that the canny old bastard was up to something really devious and didn't let the Lofwyr/Hestaby bulldrek cloud his mind for long. I wonder what he's up to now besides playing Extreme World of Warcraft ...

(Disclaimer: I really liked Rex as well, but the outlier metaraces get no play ).



EVENTS OF NOTE SINCE SHADOWS OF NORTH AMERICA
The official pronunciation for Tir Tairngire is shir sha-irn-gi-rā (Sixth World Atlas, p190).


Loose Alliances - Set in 2064
-- (p. 27) Communist policlub: People's Labor Front.
-- (p. 44) I'm not sure what Harly means by "Elven fascists! Now that has got to be the funniest thing I've read in a long time."
-- (p. 53) Good brief on Rinelee ke'Tesrae. Not sure about "millions took to the streets" given the population of Tir Tairngire. Revealed that Cyril Le'Fien took the seat vacated when Feana was assassinated (paladin devoted to ecology and a geomancer. Trained by Ehran).
-- (p. 54) Firefight in the Star Chamber when former Ehran paladin Kespian Treefellow outed as a leader. He and his supporters killed. Intra-Rinelee violence by competing factions. Meeting with the Unseelie Court to coordinate activities.
-- (p. 77) Princes hostile to arcane archaeology (e.g. DIMR).
-- (p. 90) Many magical groups banned in the Tir (IOND; also see Guild ban p. 98).


State of the Art 2064 - Set in 2064
-- (p. 14) Intelligence alliance with Japan and Pueblo. Tir specializes in magical espionage. (Brief aside, but the IMINT capabilities of Shadowrun satellites are laughably bad in overall capability (no hyperspectral or LiDAR?) -- but crazy optimistic in visible-band resolution for some reason (read a bar-code from orbit?)).
-- (p. 22) Information Secretariat covered. Good info here.
-- (pp. 160-161) Feana Sterling and James Telestrian III take the vacated seats on the Council of Princes. Sterling quickly assassinated by Rinelle Jenna Ni-Fairra goes apeshit. Failed attempt on Jonathon Reed. Horizon Group hired by Surehand (with nudging of Hestaby).


Systems Failure - Set in late 2064
-- (p. 108) Somehow the New Revolution causes an endgame in Tir Tairngire (huh?) and Lugh Surehand is on the run from the Ghosts.


Runner Havens - Set in 2070
-- (p. 72) Brief description of events. Larry Zincan head of things. Black Sun wanting to return to the good old days. Deposed Princes still scheming. Country still an economic crapsack. Many Royal Hill estates (Portland) abandoned.
-- (p. 76) Wants to buy twelve spaceplanes for some reason.
-- (p. 79) Brief aside on Telestrian Industries.
-- (p. 89) Thousands of elves flee Tir Tairngire between 2060 - 2070 and relocate to Tarislar (elven ghetto in Seattle).


Corporate Enclaves - Set in 2071
-- (p. 7) Hires Horizon for PR in 2063.
-- (p. 43) Tir has the fastest growing economy in North America and is a top-ranked tourist destination Portland, Salem and Bend among "best cities" to live in for several years running. Possibly Horizon presswank but not contradicted by the shadowtalk (seemingly contradicted in every other 4e reference though, heh).


Unwired - Set in 2071
-- (p. 31) Grants AI's citizenship.


Running Wild - Set in 2072
-- (p. 78) Beginning to recover from economic crisis.


Seattle 2072 - Set in 2072
-- (p. 64) Foreign ships can't dock in Tir waters.
-- (p. 145) Ghost connections with the refugee community. Liam Dunn is the Tir diplomatic representative in Seattle.
-- (p. 197) Still sorting things out economically.


Vice - Set in 2072
-- (p. 174) Cops still biased against non-elves.


Corporate Download - Set in 2072 (according to back cover)
-- (p. 16) Charisma Associates led government "rebranding" push. Democratic credentials debated. Government still led by an elite group. Government data more available on the Matrix, some Star Chamber proceedings aired live.
-- (p. 20) Still has not ratified the Business Recognition Accords. Still rumors it's a "matter of time."
-- (p. 68) Aztechnology uses subsidiaries to operate in Tir Tairngire.
-- (p. 101) Claim that Charisma Associates is based in Tir Tairngire.
-- (p. 151) Lofwyr has an image problem in Tir Tairngire due to Horizon meddling.
-- (p. 154) Saeder-Krupp North America is now headquarterd in Portland. Led by Ludmilla Reanka (elven aristocrat from Pomorya)..


Sixth World Almanac - Set in 2072
-- (p. 90) December 1, 2064: Council of Princes announces it will disband. [Note that this gives one month to set up elections (suspicious!)]
-- (p. 92) January 1, 2065: Larry Zincan elected High Prince.
-- (p. 96) July 1, 2069: At Portland NA HQ, S-K unveils first building made entirely by nanotech.


Spy Games - Set in 2073
-- (p. 65) Tir Tairngire maintains an embassy in Denver.
-- (p. 114) Tir Tairngire Information Secreteriat ("InfoSec") discussed. Relevant facts:

• Headquartered in Corvalis.
• Employs a great number of adepts (more than any other individual agency).
• Some agents still buttsore about the regime change.
• The new director is a veteran agent of 30-years: Jonathon Gant (dwarf)
• Director may be a plant or protege of Jonathon Reed (or may be Jonathon Reed in dwarf disguise. This has to be an in-joke).
• Dar Varien may be working with MET 2000.

-- (p. 132) Former citizen (?) Illisa Therrien works for the Texas Rangers and hates Ghostwalker.
-- (p. 137) Free spirit Erithander (free guardian spirit) serves as an agent for Lugh Surehand.
-- (p. 138) Firebird (free fire spirit) previously worked for InfoSec under the name "Eidolon".

Thanks. As someone born in Stumptown, it's really interesting to see a bit of behind the scenes stuff for how it developed.

edit: given that your forum name is Tzeentch, I find it disappointing that it didn't all go according to your plan... or did it?

Depending on how deep the economy tanked, the fastest growth might not amount to that much in absolute terms. The tourist magnets and 'best places to live' are less of a problem. Low wages, plenty of good-looking elves around and thicvk security can combine into really nice vacation spots. If you bring a pile of cash of course, but hey if you don't have a load of cash, who cares about you ?

"If you've missed anything"?! This is more info than I've been able to get about Tir since...well, since Shadows of North America and a tidbit in Lofwyr and Hestaby's profiles in Dragons of the Sixth World. I've always loved Tir Tairngire and, as I've ranted in probably four threads by this point, it is annoying how the whole situation was resolved -- off-camera. Especially with the hints that Harlequin might've been behind the Rinelle movement, that actually is the most interesting thing he's done in the came since House of the Sun. I really think it shouldn't have been resolved that quickly and I would really, really like to get more info between "Hey guys, there's a big rebel movement in Elfland" from SoNA to "Oh, the rebels one but the economy collapsed" in BBB4e. How did the rebels win? What happened to the Princes? Did any of them get killed or did they all escape unscathed to the shadows of elsewhere? Hints of them still playing puppetmaster in the new government doesn't mean much.

Seriously, why couldn't you guys have gone and screwed up the other Tir...the one no one can spell. It's just as bad as Tir Tairngire and twice as annoying :/

(Please note that "you guys" is not you personally. It is a collective for every idiot that has ever worked on Shadowrun from 1st Ed onward whether they were actual idiots or awesome writers I respect and admire who just wrong one or two things that make no sense or ruin the fun.)

-- Aye, that's how I would spin it (economy still a crapsack, but compared to the eternal basketcase CFS and SS absorbing the burnt cinder of Tsimshian it might be the leper with the most fingers).

-- I'm not sure what people would visit the Tir to do though. Original Findley wierdness aside, it doesn't offer anything off the top of my head that Salish-Shidhe doesn't. Tourist trap as an "elven homeland" with faux Blood Wood architecture? DisneyElf Theme Parks? Sex tourism? Bedroom community for rich Seattle citizens probably makes sense as well, since the S-S still seems to have tense relations with Seattle and the UCAS. Helps explain those elf refugees (which are otherwise difficult to accept, given the "no hard feelings about the civil war dudes" vibe I get )

-- Crater Lake would be a great attraction I think. The original idea of something shady going on there was cool ... but damn people it's a plot point that has gone NOWHERE since 1993 (the lockdown of the Horrors pretty much made it irrelevent)! After the current mana ebb idea hobbles along for a few years what's next -- it turns Toxic? Every revision of that place seems designed to keep players away from it with no attractive carrot, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Keep it a place of wierdness (lots of pixies, extremely rare or unique Awakened critters, spontaneous manaflares, etc) but otherwise open it up -- players could be attracted by rich telesma harvests while evading the Peace Force and forest rangers keeping idiots from doing something daft that whacks it out again. That gives a carrot ( ) and adventure seeds (Ghosts are on your ass like white on rice! Haul ass to the SS border!).

-- Not a fan of Harlequin. He's theoretically an interesting character -- but he was the default "HUR HUR I KNOZE SEKRETZ" shadowtalk poster with regards to Earthdawn for a long time and that got old fast (even when I had to use him as a sockpuppet myself) . It's telling that after the Horror issue he is doing what exactly ... playing MegaEarthdawn Legends Extreme Musou Edition with Ehran and that's about it (Dawn of the Artifacts: Dusk, p. 3)? Oh how the mightly have fallen.
-- In general, the Immortal Elves are a perfect example of metaplot accretion - without the Horrors to give them a thematic reason for existance they are just sort of ... around.

-- Noone was more surprised than I was

-- Maybe if the book had been called Shadows of North America and Other Strangeness in Ireland

-- Assuming Ancient's text is an indication, there will be some baby step changes in the Almanac that eliminates the biggest "get out of here Stalker" elements of the Nog.

-- Did you play any campaigns set in the pre-Rinelle Tir Tairngire? I'm genuinely curious as my experience with it was not particularly positive (not the least of which was the vibe I got that Findley have never even seen a picture of Portland). I know Shadowrun players are a conservative bunch, but the conditions of the Tir were static from 2050 to about 2057 (when even the original Tir book noted there would be issues due to the Rite of Progression). It had a one year period of turbulence (heh) that quickly resulted in a slightly-modified status quo and then has just sat there for ten years. It's hardly a location anyone can hold up as being a catspaw in the schemes of cackling freelancers

More stuff that would be kind of relevant:

Runner Havens - Set in 2070
- Erhan and other (unnamed) princes have relocated to the Seattle Evlen Quarter and sulk.
- Lugh Surehand is on the run from something.
- Leäl is an elven crime syndicate which channels refugees from the Tir to Seattle.
- The Ancients have lost Green Lucifer in the Crash


I actually kind of like it. It's the most plausible of all the Euro states, too (which says something about the Euro setting). Of course, it is not very JapanAmericanised (as in, follows the Japanoamerican model of megacorp feudalism), what with exensive government-funded or -subsidised everything, but I don't see that as a flaw.


I did (in part at least; I put several bad guys there in many campaigns). It was a nice change from all permissive Seattle to this ultra strict environment where any transgression is punished. Nothing I would use as the main setting, but it was a lot more useful to me as a GM (and to many players for PC background) than the streamlined McCorpstate it is now.

Not having ever seen a picture of Portland helped too, I guess.

Harlequin is a character best used as a scalpel. Make just the right cut at just the right time and only when absolutely necessary. As much as I love the character and everything, he was getting overused a lot. Even with my unabashed fanboy love for the guy, it was too much.

I meant with the forced resolution for 4e, not the developments in SoNA. A rebellion (especially with the hints that Harlequin was involved) was inevitable.

I didn't set a game in Tir, but I used it regularly in my games. One group got a job where they had to sneak in and out (the job itself was smooth, the whole challenge was getting in and out), and one of my PCs in a different group played an ex-Paladin-in-training who bailed to Seattle. I personally liked that it was an impenetrable fortress that close to Seattle. And I liked the introduction of an organized rebellion. I just hate that the entire plotline for that got handwaved away in 4e.

Really? Hm. Vice has Green Lucifer actually getting a promotion in the Ancients and no longer running the Seattle chapter, but getting a whole region.

Okay, back up a tick. I've been playing Shadowrun since it first came out, but haven't read all the novels.

What EXACTLY happened with Crater Lake (I actually have been there several times and love the place). What was the whole bit that had to be incorporated from the novels (I'm assuming this had to do with the whole Dragon pissing contest), and who supposedly runs the place now?

-M&P

This is detailed in the novel "Worlds Without End", but the gist is that an immortal elf felt empowered to dispose of a horror she mad a pact, sweet (or rather bitter) love and a child with (Thais, you'll find him pop up in SoA, among other books) earlier in two ED novels, and went to crater lake to smash the Horror with epic blood magic she knows because that's the kind of crazy stuff you talk about with your Horror lover. The Horror died and she created a spike that let others in, the Tir (being warned because she told the pricnes of her brilliant plan and they were all like hell no that sounds like a shit idea Aina, but of course she didn'T listen, feeling llike a hero after all) sealed the place off, and now tries to contain the tentacly HEllspawn that have take up residence there thanks to Aina and her feeling of empowerment.

Also, the Horror tortured Glasgian Oakforest grautitiously, just because, and because the brat deserved it.

It's also worth noting that since that incident, Crater Lake went from being a powerful magical domain to reversing into a mana ebb, draining magic from the area (pg. 120, Street Magic).

quick question, didn't seattle have an elven ghetto long before 4th edition? i thought tarislar had been around for quite a while...

Speculation: Because the Horrors *consume it*.

And keep in mind they can 'call' people. See the snippet about the Ghosts shooting unarmed civilians that act like Zombies.


Yes, it has been around since the first seattle book at the very least.

Did 4th claim it is new too? If so, I must have successfully submerged that memory.

no, perhaps i should clarify...

the OP indicated "(p. 89) Thousands of elven refugees now found in a ghetto of Seattle."

my point was merely that this isn't new... the elven ghetto already existed.

Ah. Yes. It is old. Made up from refugees from the Tir and elves kicked out of Salish lands because Indians can be dicks too. Several thousands, in fact. Before SR4.

And yet we're explicitly told, several times IIRC, that while Tarislar means "remembrance" in Sperethiel, the elves have never explained what it is that should be Remembered. Which, if it were as something as obvious as dustups with the Salish, you'd think we'd already have been told that. Or perhaps I'm overthinking (or not thinking enough; either is likely).

They might want to remember how humans fucked them over for something they never did? That would fit the enclave's bitter, reclusive theme in the first Seattle book, and the anto-human sentiment mentioned in SSB.

I always thought it was the Night of Rage.

It was.

As for Tir Tangerine, while before it might have been a bit difficult to use as a campaign setting at least it was usable as one and worked great as a place to go for adventures off and on. Now its a pile of crap that I don't need anything for. I can use the Seattle source book and just change names and I'm good because the Tir is just like every other town now. Sorry but that is less usable to me than Tir pre4e. The Tir went from something interesting and different into a pile of boring this time with more pointed ears.

I could see Portland as the Amsterdam of North America. The Sex and Drugs hotspot just 3 hours south of Seattle.

I ran a game there recently which hinged on the Princely types taking the knowledge of how to produce laés with them when they left, which is why the watered down leäl wine is making rounds.

BTW, what is the official pronunciation for the two Tir's.

-M&P

Dude it clearly is Tir Tangerine and Tir Egg Nog.

Making Stuff Up:
Oh, SSC wasn't being dicks to the elves, we were being dicks to UCAS (Seatle). We emptied our prisons nicely when we "kicked" them out.

Probably pretty obvious which movie I stole that idea from, I never did bother to take the time to find out if Castro actually did that.

Yeah. In Vice. The whole West Coast region.

Castro declared that anyone who wants out of Cuba can leave, and he meant anyone.

I wonder how many of those prisoners were just in jail or mental institutions for the crime of homosexuality..

--- Aye it's been there for a long time (original Seattle Sourcebook, p. 139). However my reference is specifically referring to:

Runner Havens p. 89

--Emphasis mine.

-- Yup. Of course why they were living in a slum next to Tir Tairngire wasn't clear at first.

Seattle Sourcebook, p. 139 - Set in 2050

-- A happy bunch.

-- Their situation vis-a-vis Tir Tairngire was addressed in New Seattle, p. 71 - Set in 2060

-- Good update of the situation in Seattle 2072 (p. 126)

[Updated to expand the Tarislar references]

Tier Tay-urn-guy-er and Tier nah noog is always how I've pronounced them. The former I'm 90% sure is right, but the latter is influenced by Gaelic which makes no goddamn sense at all.

And is Crater Lake still blocked off? I mean after 2058 when the Horrors were no longer an issue...maybe the mana warp is still there?

Oh excellent, thank you. It's been so long since I read the original Seattle... never owned it myself, always had to check it out from my public library... no wonder I forgot that bit.

Dunkelzahn prevented more from crossing over forever. Those that are already there were not affected. The fun thing about Horrors is that (excluding Shedim) they are there to stay once there.

Having not read as much of Earthdawn as I would like - how do you kill a horror, and, as I understand it, they come in "grades".

-M&P

Like any other critter. If they'Re here, you can mostly shoot them or at the very least slay them with a Spiritbolt spell

At least, that's roughly ED's take on it. Barring special horrors, like the one who becomes your special friend, kills everyone and everything you ever cared about in a most spectacularily horrible way, and feeds off your terror and loss (Chantal's [sic] horror), or Yrsgrythae [sic], Aina's one-time pact-partner, lover, and father of Thais, the second most unfortunate thing in SR, right after Aithne.

I would add that the Big D stopped the Horrors from arrving early, not from showing up at all. At least that was how it was explained by AH.

He bought time, just as Thayla did. Nothing more.

Significantly updated the post-SoNA references. If you spot any more (especially regarding Prince antics) let me know.

-- Updated with Spy Games information. As always, let me know if I missed anything.

CHecked the wiki, but saw no listing of a Mike Mulvihill novel. Which one is it?

(Something about Ainthe Oakforrest's kid (And, man, 'Ainthe' is such a horrible name!) poking around, finding a cache of Lofwyr's dragon eggs, smashing 'em up, then getting eaten by ol' Golden Snout, which then drives his pop to demand satisfaction of some kind, and suddenly neither he nor Lofwyr are princes anymore. WHich means Ol' Oak is probably going to hook up with Spinrad to take the big lizard down.)

I always assumed that to be a nod to Carl Sargent's hinting that the Blood Wood elves (or their descendants) are actually the historical Aryans.

A few (random) things:

Corvalis was established as the headquarters of the Information Secretariat in SOTA '64, I was just repeating it in Spy Games.

The elven criminal syndicate is the Laesa, not the Leal. Leal wine is one of the (several) versions of the drug that are making the rounds at the moment, but the syndicate/courier group/cool-elven-criminals-that-aren't-the-Ancients call themselves the Laesa. There's some information on them in 10 Gangs.

The canon version of events (in that it's the one current writers are moving forward with) surrounding Green Lucifer is the Vice version, where he's been bumped up from co-running the Seattle chapter and is now rocking out his green mohawk all up and down the whole West Coast, overseeing operations, working on his tan, flipping people off, pretending not to be a mage, or whatever it is elven go-gangers do in their free time. Sting finally got solo control of Seattle (after twenty years or so of shared leadership), watching her rival get promoted a notch and leaving her with the metroplex. For now.

I've wondered about this for *years*.

I've never seen it printed anywhere, just mentioned kind of in passing.

I'd LOVE to see the real deal.

-- I have the notes for Mike's novel (Private Agenda IIRC) as it obviously impacted the Tir, but it was just a set of plot points. If I find the doc on my archives I'll see what it adds but the points above match what I recall of it.

-- Really surprised the book hasn't been released in some form. Mike was excited to be a novel author

In a later sourcebook did they not mention ol' Greenie getting knocked off by an underling 'cause his living too long put a crimp in his advancement?

That was Riser's interpretation of what happened, yes.

For the details, folks just have to wait for the CMP adventure Ancient Pawns to make it through layout and into publication (look for it as part of an elf-centric adventure bundle, hopefully very soon).

I would quite like to see them, if they're the sort of thing you're allowed to share. PM me if so, and I'll get you my email. It's a little late in the process for me to go out of my way to further integrate anything in a certain handful of upcoming products, but I can't help but still be very, very, curious.

Ditto across the board on this one. I've wanted to know what was up with this for *ages*, and Critias is probably the only one around that's more into the Tir than I am. Need... datadump ...

Tír Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā p190 6WA
Tír na nÓg: shēr nə nōg p152 6WA

So yeah, that's a little freaky.

This was the best thread I've read in some time.

I still say 'em "Tear Tearngear" and "Tear na nog," myself. Official policy be damned! Fight the power!

Tear Tan Gear and Tir na NOAG, myself.

-- I don't have access to my file archives until late August, unfortunately. I will do my best to find it then.