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I was thinking. Your meat body dies, but you have a contract with Doc Wagon. They have your clone. Can you enter that body?
While in theory you could be able to enter your clone body, the mind is stunted, you would basically be destroying your mind, astrally lobotomizing yourself.
i haven't read the doc wagon stuff about the clone bodies, which book is that in? so is the clone brain itself stunted? or are you just assuming transferring to a body that's not your original would be traumatizing? so could you go into that clone temporarily while a full capacity clone is made then take over that one and be back to normal?

[edit] and if there's all these soulless clones sitting in backrooms somewhere... do those rooms become playgrounds for shedim? if so then having full clones around suddenly becomes a lot more dangerous, running into your shedim-inhabited clone on the street would be kinda freaky. opens all sorts of new run ideas up! vegm.gif [/edit]
I refer you to teh thread Doc-wagon infested
QUOTE (Nikoli @ Feb 25 2004, 12:54 PM)
While in theory you could be able to enter your clone body, the mind is stunted, you would basically be destroying your mind, astrally lobotomizing yourself.

When a body has died, the astral form still has all thier memories and skills. Therefore, the meat body has nothing to do with the spirit form. Frankly, I would say yes. The downside is all the religious kooks that will come out of the woodwork. wink.gif

I'd also require that clone to have the bad karma flaw. After all, you just side-stepped death. smile.gif
so could you permamently inhabit someone else's clone? be a great way of changing identities to keep the star off your back.
'cept if star was on your back and you can project, they'd spot your astral sig easily.

On a side note, I'd imagine that Docwagon and all it's competitors have a nasty habit of turning the clones into cat-food if they so much as look like they are waking up, just incase it is a Shedim or what not.

Also, for someone to do such an act, I'd require them to have the possission metamagic ability
I've always assumed (not canon, sue me) that the forced-growth process involved in bringing a clone to organ-donor status in a short time prevents or stunts the development of the central nervous system. Or at least that's what the corps say, partly to deflect the flak they'd be getting if everyone knew that fully sentient clone bodies were getting hacked up for their livers.

I'd say no, you couldn't enter your clone body from Astral space. But imagine the possibility - a wealthy mage could have clone bodies on life support on different continents, and could just flit over to Britian for a vacation!
This is kinda like asking if twin mages can project and then switch bodies.

IMO a clone is a different person. In terms of magic it's not your body, period.
Herald of Verjigorm
Under the condition that Ghostwalker owes you, yes. In almost all other cases, no.
can siamese twins astrally project separately?
or is their astral form stuck together as well?
Kanada Ten
If there are two sets of Mental attributes, then each can project individually.
Zazen, two twins are different people. they may be identical but there are differences down in the genetic level, just not large differences. plus each has his/her own seperate personality. hhhmmm speaking of genetics... since most viruses leave a little part of their genome behind when they infect a person, does that subtly change a person's aura? if it does and you want to inhabit your clone do you have to infect it with every disease you've ever had? so does genetics determine your aura? or is it your personality that determines it?
I don't have Doc Wagon sourcebooks(if there are any) but I think that DW clones parts of a human body or have cloned stem cells cryogenically frozen until needed. So say you need an arm transplant, either thay have your arm already grown or they have to grow it from the cells. My take on the matter is that they do not clone the full body, imagine that if you have lost an arm just last week but you go and lose it again today, they would have to clone 2 of you and only use some parts. And I think they'll stop cloning arms if you have cyber arms, etc.
yeah it makes more sense more them to clone on demand rather then pre-clone entire bodies, gives the religious nuts less to gripe about
the requirement to whole-clone to organ farm is based on the same tech assumptions that omitted cheap cellphones from SR. wouldn't the creation of Bioware products _require_ complex tissue synth?

IANAB, though.
According to the canon in past editions, the "clones" used to produce spare body parts etc, are force grown. The procedure is mainly to get tissue and organs to replace those damaged in the target/customer and then the "body" is recycled down once again. They are currently unable to properly clone a replica metahuman due to problems encountered with the complexity of the nervous system and brain. Oh, sure they can regrow bits, but to create another fully functioning double... well, lets just say you can bet your last nuyen that the megacorps are funding R&D towards that goal. It'd put a whole new meaning to the term Wage-Slave.

OK, so to answer the point about astrally possessing your clone I'd say no in general terms. If you want to run with that in your campaign then fine, but its going to get abused and upset the game balance. If you do then at least make sure the projecting character has the possession metamagic ability and impose problems to their physical form. After all it'll probably suffer form advanced tissue ageing and lack of co-ordination until it;'s been "lived in" for a bit. Think Neo when he was unjacked from the Matrix but moreso, because this body hasn't been alive for as long. Another aspect wuld be to cause mental problems for a brain that has never been "on".

Hmmm, that sort of brings up another BIG question. If you can clone a body including all the nevous tissue and the brain itself, wouldn't that body be able to think. Would it have all the thoughts and memories of it's primogenator? Would it's personality be identical, similar or different? After all, genetics is only so much, memory and persoanlity is shaped by your experiences and surroundings. That's why living = learning and thus what experience is!

And if that is the case wouldn't it therefore have its own soul and thus be able to astrally project etc by itself?

I can see a whole lot of worms from this opened can Term.
QUOTE (moosegod)
I was thinking.  Your meat body dies, but you have a contract with Doc Wagon.  They have your clone.  Can you enter that body?

Sure, they have your clone for spare parts.


1) Whether the clone has a normal sized brain or just a brain stem, it's still alive. When you grow a human (whether by making it in the old fashioned way with two parents, or by cloning it in a tank), the DNA does specify the brain will develop, senses will function, and the brain will process information, code memories, and build a personality of its own - your memories and personality are not present in the clone, just some of the genetic predispositions to behave kind of like you.

In other words, clones are more like identical twins than some empty shell version of you.

This means a clone grown in a tank might have the personality of an unborn fetus, but it DOES have its own aura. Trying to squeeze your astral form in there would involve trying to ram two auras into one body, which don't work so well.

2) IIRC, that clone has deliberately stunted cerebral development so there's no qualms over harvesting "spare parts" from it. If you try to settle your astral form into it, it'd be liked trying to run Windows XP on a Intel 8086 with 128kb of RAM. IMO, you'd take some serious hits to your Intelligence score. Hope your buddies don't mind buying adult diapers and drool bibs for you... wink.gif
Next question: how much does it cost to have them not stunt mental development.
QUOTE (Lilt)
Next question: how much does it cost to have them not stunt mental development.

A few tens of thousands of nuyens in bribes and labor to hide the paper trail? Several more K nuyen to set up care, instruction, etc. for the fully developed clone.

Actually, would you want to force grow a clone to adulthood with a full brain? Can you imagine a 70kg diaper-garbed rug rat with an adult's hormones? Better hope that skillwires/skillsofts can impart some basic "operating skills" to the clone while it's being grown.
Hot Wheels
You know and I know my clone sleeps alone,
she's out on her own, forever,
she's programed to work hard, she's never profane
she won't go insane, not ever.
No VD no Cancer,
on TV the answer
No brother no mother
she's just like the other
And you know and I know my clone,sleep alone!
Pat Benatar,
Can't remember which book is it, but it's been stated that mages's clones are not magically capable like the original. No one has been able to fully identify the magical genes and clone them.
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