Ally spirits as written have many, many problems. I'd like your opinion on the following houseruled overhaul, based on FrankTrollman's original vision of allies before they were ruined by poorly thought out editing.

# Force: Force 1 free with the Metamagic, Each additional Force Point costs 6 x Current Force. So getting a Force 5 Ally costs 0 + 6 + 12 + 18 + 24 = 60 Karma.
# Powers and Skills: 6 points each. Remember that skills are automatically known at a rating equal to Force!
# Spells: 4 for known, 6 for unknown (requires formula).
# Rituals of Change: Enhancing an Ally should cost exactly the same as conjuring an ally in the first place (that is, nothing save the cost of the enhancements).
# Remove Aid Sorcery, Spell Binding, and Spell Sustaining from the list of services. The "Aid Sorcery and Aid Study" heading on page 105 of Street Magic should apply only to Aid Study.

[Edited to reduce cost from 8 to 6 times current force, to remove the stat line suggestion, and to clarify that teaching a spirit spells you don't know yourself requires having the spell's formula]

Karma cost is WAY too high. How many characters do you know that have 80 karma? If the answer is more than zero, I want to play in your games because either you're generous with the karma or your campaigns last forever.

Well, why should you have a Force 5 Ally?

The only change I'd do to Ally Spirits is not allow their Aid Sorcery to stack with a Bound Spirit's Aid Sorcery.

Frankly everything else they do is literally something you could already be doing with Bound spirits for the cost of a few binding materials. So you're basically arguing "spirits are overpowered" here. It already costs a lot of karma to create an Ally and all it really amounts to is a convenience and roleplay factor. Before every single shadowrun you could trivially bind [Charisma] spirits with [a ton] of services each for a trivial sum of nuyen.

Regarding this,



They do, it's Force for every attribute. Which is considerably weaker than the physical combat spirits (especially Guardian spirits, who have pretty crazy stats and skills).

How would you change it, then? I am NOT a fan of linear costs, and I think 80 Karma is worth it for an always-present, utterly loyal, practically unkillable ally which CAN CAST SPELLS.

As to the stat line: Using an existing spirit's stat line would make it more powerful AND more distinctive, but I have no problem dispensing with that part.

I fail to see what the problem with Ally Spirits as written is.

Linear costs reek, and as written they can sustain an infinite number of spells at no penalty. I could go on, but I think I'll just direct you to the search function.

Because you bought the metamagic to the exclusion of another one, and dumped 40 karma into it.

I thought it was 80 karma?

I thought they errata'd the spell sustaining thing.

Then feel free to throw you Karma away, cause for that price I could make a force 10 ally spirit, and be feeling pretty good about the deal.

Why wouldn't you feel good, you'd be getting double the Force.

My point was, you get what you pay for. Abstruse said the cost was too high. It's rhetoric. Nevermind.

I brought the proposed price down to 6 x current rating.

[Edit:] 1,000 posts! I'm a Running Target!

They did, Ally Spirits can only Aid Sorcery and Aid Study for all schools of magic, they can't sustain ANY of them.

I don't see why you think a spirit that can cast spell is something unique to Ally spirits btw, Spirits of Man can do it, too.

No, spirits of man get a spirit power that replicates the effects, except they cannot overcast. Ally spirits can.

I think they can sustain any spell they cast.

So? Each spell that the spirit should be able to cast, adds 3 karma to the cost or 5 if the spell is unknown to the magician. As to being able to overcast, this inability was introduced with SR4A maybe it will be errataed into the ally spirits as well.

I guess the other option "Spell Sustaining" one of bound spirits' services is the one that causes offense. But look at it the magician pays at least 8 Karma +Initiation to get this kind of spell sustainer. The only thing that may be unbalanced about is that there is no force limitation on Spell Sustaining. Just change that and you're good.

Ally spirits are enough of a karmasink as is. They needn't be ,ade more expensive. I have yet to see a PC magician who has one.

I want to play in the games where a few sustained spells or Ally spirits make any difference at all. For the amount of Karma you are pumping regardless you can do some other very nice things.

As for Ally spirits they are fine as is, sure there are some slight wtf moments, but anytime magic is introduced into any game you get a wtf moment.