And the 20 Billion question: what question did I forget to ask?

You left out novels, Missions, ebooks, convention modules, FAQ, and official webfiction. To the comments!

I would say that anything which has the publisher's imprimatur on it should be considered canon. Which, yes, would include official webfiction, missions, and even (sadly, in some cases) the novels. (Thankfully, the 360 in-name-only video game does not count.)
I really don't even see how it's debatable.
You may not -like- a particular piece of canon; that doesn't make it not so. It just means you don't like it. I still have a hard time accepting the Big D's death but I still accept it as fact in my campaigns.
To start debating whether or not something that is officially published is or is not canon edges on slipping into silly debates -- like the kind Harry Potter fandom has over whether the epilogue is "real" or not, or the Harry & Hermione 'shippers who wish the Weasleys would go away. (I swear I'm not a huge HP nerd. I just read a lot of TVTropes. Honest.)

EDIT: Just want to clarify, I'm not directing any of this at SkepticInc. I'm not attacking you for putting the poll up or anything.

Oh, and the German/French/Japanese/other foreign editions.

Not to worry. Stating the opinions that people would like to debate is not something I take as an attack. I'd rather everyone did so. To the Comments!

Yeah, I suppose that's all canon too. Granted, it's generally obscure, hard-to-find canon... Or maybe I'm just lazy.

Here's what the poll looked like at 5 votes:

http://yfrog.com/0rscreenshot20100623at738p

Small sample size, but I'll bet the final results look pretty similar.

Cheers, -- N

I've read through some of the Sixth World Wiki and I find it sparse. I'm guessing there is an issue of copyright limiting what can be posted there? Writing something to match canon that spans well over a thousand dollars worth of material gets to be a bit of a problem. Investing the kind of time needed to index all of that on one's own dime before writing anything isn't really feasible, and there's no way that setting will get streamlined if no one is allowed to do so. I guess Catalyst Games might have a "canon bible' to keep track of everything setting-wise that they provide to bankrolled writers, but I somehow doubt it.

hi hi

Option 4: Whatever the GM wants to be.

And the 50-odd German-only novels.

Which GM does a writer use? I'm pretty sure tossing a table of House Rules at the beginning of a publication would be a great way for the writer to get tarred and feathered at conventions.

Comments by Synner indicate a bible was at one time a priority, but it never got completed. More than once I've contemplated trying to compile a big-ass infodump (great band name?) but lord it's a daunting idea.

Daunting, and touches on the legal issues that have been being focused on recently. For instance, would CGL allow such a thing to be posted, or can it only be done if we cross our fingers and hope no one decides to sue? If it can be posted, where can it be done, and what use is the public allowed to make of it? Does it become CC when it's posted to the internet, or is that a rumor akin to the "if the professor isn't here after five minutes, we can't be held responsible for skipping class" rule?

It would allow freelance writers to do a better job for the system, but it can also be argued that it would keep people from buying sourcebooks and is therefore a bad idea for CGL. It might just not work with their business model.

Oh, I neglected to mention that I wasn't going to post such a thing. It was only going to be for personal use so I don't have to go through three sourcebooks, eightyears apart, to see things progressed with a corp or country or shadowtalker. I'm fairly certain posting any such compilation would be a cease-and-desist waiting to happen. AH's site is probably about the best you could do.

I see there are a number of the SR writers lurking the sight to discuss the CGL problems. If any of them peek at this, can you give us some insight on how the canon decision process goes when writing and editing?

For SR authors, all "official" sourcebooks, rulebooks, and ebooks are canon.

Novels are generally not canon, though they provide at least a guideline of events and characters.

Missions, convention modules, webfiction, etc. are nominally canon, but most of the freelancers seriously don't have the time or interest or ability to familiarize themselves with the contents of all of that.

Foreign sourcebooks are...sort of a weird ground. Most of them are translations of American books, but with additional original material to flesh out their local settings; in previous editions they had more original works. The freelancers writing for the American audience try to keep the European audience in mind, usually through the tireless efforts of the European freelancers, who are also the go-to guys on the foreign original material and plotlines. So, nominally canon, mostly.

Foreign novels are so far out there, we can't even name them. Not generally canon.

Which is a shame. It'd be really cool if you work something out with them (like perhaps only making it current through the previous edition). Or maybe they'd even hire you as a part time writer/data compiler? I know I'd pay for a huge compendium.

Semi-off topic, is the reason for the Sixth World Wiki being rather incomplete a brush with legal issues, or just a lack of enterprising souls to fill in articles?

I thought, especially with Shadows of Europe, that a lot of the German stuff was pulled into canon. I think that gives a good argument that all of it is.

/Karl Kombatmage!

except there are (has been) some huge differences between the German rulebooks, particularly setting books and the North Am ones. Troll mushroom kingdom I'm looking at you.

What's with all the German material? Do they really go that nuts for SR?

That's...quite a stack of source material. Going off a quick look at the reference section on the Sixth World Wiki, that's something like 115 books, plus two magazines. And that isn't the fiction books, or the foreign books, as you way. Urk.

Well, before we left some of us had a copy of about everything Shadowrun that was ever printed in English...and I think Adam has an enviable collection of the foreign sourcebooks, the dastard.

Digital or paper? I'm just curious as to the size of the content, measured in meters. I'm guessing it might rival a Troll, and I'm somewhat intimidated.

Paper. Most of it occupies two and a half shelves, not counting the novels (2 more shelves), Earthdawn stuff ('nother shelf), and various magazines/minis/DMZ, etc. (1/2 shelf + cubbyhole).

Hell, I think I'm missing maybe a dozen tops of the sourcebooks/adventures/etc. and I've got about 30 of the novels. Collected over 20 years half a good chunk of them coming off ebay, amazon, and half-price books. I figure you could get the whole batch (or at least all but a couple of the hard-to-find ones) for about a grand.

Eh, my foreign collection is really just a smattering, but my paper collection is complete.

How does this licensing work, given the legal issued surrounding CGL? I'm assuming the WizKids, Inc part just hasn't been updated? Or is there a convoluted path of ownership involved?

Oh this makes me so sad. :/ I got rid of most of the novels in a fit of teenage angst (depression is a hell of a drug), and whenever I went sourcebook shopping I never found any of the old ones (and when I found old ones, I never had the dough). Once saw a box of DMZ at a game store... wish I'd snatched that up, just for cool points.
Well. For a limited definition of "cool," anyway.

Amazon has most of them on their marketplace. Ebay is probably the best source, especially if you're missing a lot of books (lots go up far more often). I've seen lots that were damn near half the sourcebooks ever printed (including Denver and UB) go for under $200, and I've never seen a novel lot go above $50 even the one that had every single novel (pre-Duels). If you have anything like a Half-Price Books near you, they tend to have a big collection (though you'll pay more than the other sites). It's really easy to get a collection damn close to finished. The problem is getting those last couple of books at a price you're willing to pay (I am NOT paying fifty fucking dollars for Paradise Lost!)

Ok, so the entry cost for writers is ~$300 and a few weeks of reading. That's getting more doable, I guess.

In Germany, SR has constantly been among the Top 3 RPGs for almost 20 years...

Video Games?

The 5 chapter manga by Saiki Kazuma published by Dragon Comics in Japan?

Considering the SNES game has you executing Inezo Aneki at the end and obliterating the server that spawned Deus/Morgan - I am leaning towards no on the canon front.

On the slightly brighter side quite a lot of cannon is re-hashed in other books and or completely ingorned/left open.

Germans love shadowrun. It's even mentioned in the SR TVTropes page.

However, some really ought to be translated. The German line had a lot of rubbish so bad it makes you cry, but also some real gems. The Heintz books, Pesadillas, the Alex Wichert books, Feuerzauber, Altes Eisen ... not everything focused on a foreign setting too; about half these books are set in Seattle or elsewhere (Alex Wichert's books are set in Yakut and Afghanistan, respectively).

I dunno, it might also be a cheap way to get material to put out fast? Of course, novel rights are in some weird legal state, what with FanPro's novels division being legally undead or something.


Is there a web-based fan translation? Is it any good?


Quick correction: original Euro stuff is published in 4th too. There is the franco-german cooperation on the SOX book/module, a Munich module for the German market, a Marseilles add-on to Corp Enclaves (franco-german again), a huge Hamburg chapter for the German Runner Havens, some bits for Emergence in German. Also, a Berlin sourcebook seems to be in the finishing stages at Pegasus.

To the Comments!

I would like to put forward that I consider very little of anything SR to be canon simply because of the fantastic way it is written. Keep in mind that I only have a BBB SR4 from FanPro (with a bunch of missing pages in the skills section) and SR4A from Catalyst. Other than that, I read a few SR novels that first piqued my interest in the setting.

What I mean is, even the history/setting of SR is presented in such a way that it can be called into doubt if it is the final word on what the truth of the setting is, given the limited (yet quite expansive with some characters) view points. Take for example the death of Pres Dragon Dunk, sure, I have been enlightened by such generous folks as AncientHistory as to what there is on what went on with that but to much of the setting, all those characters know is that Pres Dragon of the UCAS was assassinated.

And then there is the opposite effect had on such a person as myself so relatively new to the setting, the lack of details on particular areas of interest. In my case, that would be more info on the detailed workings and history of NAN and even more specifically SSC. When I start exploring that, in the face of lack of info I just make up my own setting to let my imagination play in, where I take into account parts I am familiar with IRL.

So in effect, in so many words, I guess I have just echoed what another has already said: Canon is whatever the GM says it is (which may be as little as just the SR4 BBB or even less if they are new to the SR setting).

That's interesting. I actually hadn't considered that before. Is it selectively canon, meaning whatever TPTB choose to use, or simply always canon? I mean, what's to stop a foreign entity to create something that completely goes against the setting/feel of the game? And now there's no choice but to accept it? How closely are the foreign editions monitored?

Very, for all I know. Didn't use to be like this (check Germany Sourcebook for how much), but by now everything is discussed at length, given how several high-profile German people are working closely with the international team, and work on the international books, too. The Berlin book, for instance, is a pet project of Lars Blumenstein, who has been a prolific contributor to just about any 4th edition book. Of course, that alone is working to integrate German and international books rather seamlessly. I don't know about France, but I think similar mechanisms are in place there.

Oh, I agree, just saying that they shouldn't get left out of consideration when mapping out the cannonicity levels of the franchise as a whole. For example, consider the venerable Remington Roomsweeper. As far as I know of, it's only ever been depicted visually twice in Shadowrun products. Elmore's SR1/SR2 cover art, and the Sega Genesis/Megadrive game.

Elmore's version certainly conveys the shotgunness of the weapon, but sort of falls flat on passing itself off as a concealable heavy pistol. Also, the only thing establishing that Sally's holding a Roomsweeper in that picture is the introductory fiction from the first core rulebook, so for those who discount the canonicity of the fiction pieces, art showing a scene from one of those fiction pieces may also be questionable.

The video game version, while icon sized and pixelated, manages to capture both these critical elements. One of the artists who did weapon art for Arsenal had a line-art version of the video game version of the Roomsweeper, but since the Roomsweeper was a core rulebook gun, and not a new item in Arsenal, CGL instead used that piece for the Nitama NeMax.

Now while I don't think the video games are consistent enough to the other published material to warrant a a label of Canon, in cases where they don't blatantly contradict the setting (*coughMicrosoftcough*), they should be used to inform and enrich material that is Canon. The case of the Roomsweeper is a missed opportunity for this.


No scanlation that I've ever been able to find, I'm afraid. Individual pages have been scaned & not translated, and the art's decent from what I've seen.