How would we best go about writing, editing, and publishing a fan-made pdf? Is this seen as scab work by the writers for Shadowrun? How best to handle recognition of contributors? Would the legal situation even allow it? And what licensing would it have to be published under?
TO THE COMMENTS!
Full Version: Writing Shadowrun in Space
I voted "bad idea" on the wiki question as the Sixth World Wiki is only for canonical information, not fan-made stuff.
(There was a user who would post pages and pages of complex population statistics for various cities that were then all deleted as none of it was backed in any official publications...)
(There was a user who would post pages and pages of complex population statistics for various cities that were then all deleted as none of it was backed in any official publications...)
The stuff from the first post of the Space thread is all canonical aside from the GURPS conversion. If someone wants to translate that into wiki stuff be my guest.
We've had a number of good threads going that could probably be converted into something without too much effort. Plus, whoever writes it up gets to posit their viewpoint as a starting place.
There's a collective of former freelancers looking to publish fan-made supplements. I think Demonseed Elite is a good contact to them. Also, there is Dumpshock Data Haven, a nascent shadowrun eZine. Bull is a spokesperson for these. And then there's knasser, whose page hosts a couple fan made stufff already.
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 25 2010, 03:13 AM) 
There's a collective of former freelancers looking to publish fan-made supplements. I think Demonseed Elite is a good contact to them.
Did I hear my name?
Yes, there are a few of us working out some ideas and getting our feet wet. I'm not really sure we can help directly with a Shadowrun in Space unofficial publication, but we could offer advice. And I will be setting up a website that could either host or link to unofficial material.
If one of the former freelancers wanted to get involved, that'd be up to them! If you don't have a means to create a PDF of the unofficial publication, that I can do, though I'm no fancy layout person.
Tzeeench is, to my knowledge, either a former freelancer himself, or at least a Dumpshock member of verylong standing. At least Bull knew him from way back.
Interesting.
I'd say, getting a PDF like that posted as many places as possible is a good idea. If the Wiki is only for canon, then obviously it shouldn't go there, but any other location where SR users would be is a good place to post it. You want to have as many people reading and wanting it as you can.
As for infringement, as long as it stays fan made and isn't sold, I'd think you'd be good.
I'm not a SR Freelancer, but I do freelance and would love to contribute if you move ahead with the project.
I'd say, getting a PDF like that posted as many places as possible is a good idea. If the Wiki is only for canon, then obviously it shouldn't go there, but any other location where SR users would be is a good place to post it. You want to have as many people reading and wanting it as you can.
As for infringement, as long as it stays fan made and isn't sold, I'd think you'd be good.
I'm not a SR Freelancer, but I do freelance and would love to contribute if you move ahead with the project.
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 25 2010, 09:23 AM)
Tzeeench is, to my knowledge, either a former freelancer himself, or at least a Dumpshock member of verylong standing. At least Bull knew him from way back.
Tzeeench is Kenneth Peters (Who's Who on Dumpshock), according to Board Game Geek, his work includes:
- GURPS
- Transhuman Space: Fifth Wave (2002)
- Transhuman Space: Spacecraft of the Solar System (2002)
- WWII: Weird War II (2003)
- Transhuman Space: Under Pressure (2003)
- Transhuman Space: Toxic Memes (2004)
- Ultra-Tech, Third Edition (2007)
- Shadowrun
- Target: Matrix (2000)
- Rigger 3 (2001)
- Shadows of North America (2001)
- Threats 2 (2001)
- Target: Wastelands (2002)
- Rigger 3, Revised (2003)
- Shadows of Europe (2004)
So he appears very qualified for Shadowrun in Space.
Yes, he mentioned GURPS, I just wasn't sure whether he had been an active writer with SR too. 
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Jun 25 2010, 12:21 PM)
Did I hear my name?
Yes, there are a few of us working out some ideas and getting our feet wet. I'm not really sure we can help directly with a Shadowrun in Space unofficial publication, but we could offer advice. And I will be setting up a website that could either host or link to unofficial material.
If one of the former freelancers wanted to get involved, that'd be up to them! If you don't have a means to create a PDF of the unofficial publication, that I can do, though I'm no fancy layout person.
Yes, there are a few of us working out some ideas and getting our feet wet. I'm not really sure we can help directly with a Shadowrun in Space unofficial publication, but we could offer advice. And I will be setting up a website that could either host or link to unofficial material.
If one of the former freelancers wanted to get involved, that'd be up to them! If you don't have a means to create a PDF of the unofficial publication, that I can do, though I'm no fancy layout person.
Please let us know about the webpage when it gets up. I image we could make the PDF and put it there, and then make a Wiki surrounding the PDF. That way the Shadowrun in Space publication wouldn't have to cover everything in one go, but could focus on the core parts of what makes Space so interesting.
QUOTE (deek @ Jun 25 2010, 01:41 PM)
Interesting.
I'd say, getting a PDF like that posted as many places as possible is a good idea. If the Wiki is only for canon, then obviously it shouldn't go there, but any other location where SR users would be is a good place to post it. You want to have as many people reading and wanting it as you can.
As for infringement, as long as it stays fan made and isn't sold, I'd think you'd be good.
I'm not a SR Freelancer, but I do freelance and would love to contribute if you move ahead with the project.
I'd say, getting a PDF like that posted as many places as possible is a good idea. If the Wiki is only for canon, then obviously it shouldn't go there, but any other location where SR users would be is a good place to post it. You want to have as many people reading and wanting it as you can.
As for infringement, as long as it stays fan made and isn't sold, I'd think you'd be good.
I'm not a SR Freelancer, but I do freelance and would love to contribute if you move ahead with the project.
If the Wiki is only for canon, it would be a bad spot for it, as you say. As far as selling it, we are, but the what people are getting isn't monetary. What does every fanboy and fangirl want the most? Their characters name in a publication.
If a writer puts together a section, they could have be FastJack's special guest on that topic and get to write it under their characters pseudonym, and the Shadowtalk section could be written directly from the forum discussions on the entries, once again with people's character names. That would have many of us very motivated to contribute.
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jun 25 2010, 02:55 PM)
Tzeeench is Kenneth Peters (Who's Who on Dumpshock), according to Board Game Geek, his work includes:
So he appears very qualified for Shadowrun in Space.
- GURPS
- Transhuman Space: Fifth Wave (2002)
- Transhuman Space: Spacecraft of the Solar System (2002)
- WWII: Weird War II (2003)
- Transhuman Space: Under Pressure (2003)
- Transhuman Space: Toxic Memes (2004)
- Ultra-Tech, Third Edition (2007)
- Shadowrun
- Target: Matrix (2000)
- Rigger 3 (2001)
- Shadows of North America (2001)
- Threats 2 (2001)
- Target: Wastelands (2002)
- Rigger 3, Revised (2003)
- Shadows of Europe (2004)
So he appears very qualified for Shadowrun in Space.
Oh dear lord. Mr. Peters, sir? Pweeeeeeze? We'll even try not to get fanperson stink on you.
I've been saying we need a book like this for years..
And Ancient History actually agrees with me on that!
Also: no, not on the shadowrun wiki . . it'll get lost in there . .
Maybe release a PDF with a comment&errata-thread on dumpshock.
And THEN take the stuff from the PDF make it into articles on the wiki.
And include errata/comments from the dumpshock board threads there.
Important: Links in the thread to the wiki-articles that are being talked about.
And maybe some of our very own shadowtalk as well *snickers*
And Ancient History actually agrees with me on that!
Also: no, not on the shadowrun wiki . . it'll get lost in there . .
Maybe release a PDF with a comment&errata-thread on dumpshock.
And THEN take the stuff from the PDF make it into articles on the wiki.
And include errata/comments from the dumpshock board threads there.
Important: Links in the thread to the wiki-articles that are being talked about.
And maybe some of our very own shadowtalk as well *snickers*
-- My first instinct is to submit a proposal for an official Shadowrun space sourcebook (probably 48 pp direct-to-PDF would be feasible) and continue to collate and expand my reference thread. If that's shot down I'm more than willing to do a fan creation 
-- BTW, the new Spaceships 8: Transhuman Spacecraft is out. I did most of the initial designs and all the checking; it converts every published mobile spacecraft, including three totally new ones and a few of the stations, to Spaceships format. Check it out
-- BTW, the new Spaceships 8: Transhuman Spacecraft is out.
I did most of the initial designs and all the checking; it converts every published mobile spacecraft, including three totally new ones and a few of the stations, to Spaceships format. Check it out
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 25 2010, 08:34 PM)
I've been saying we need a book like this for years..
And Ancient History actually agrees with me on that!
Also: no, not on the shadowrun wiki . . it'll get lost in there . .
Maybe release a PDF with a comment&errata-thread on dumpshock.
And THEN take the stuff from the PDF make it into articles on the wiki.
And include errata/comments from the dumpshock board threads there.
Important: Links in the thread to the wiki-articles that are being talked about.
And maybe some of our very own shadowtalk as well *snickers*
And Ancient History actually agrees with me on that!
Also: no, not on the shadowrun wiki . . it'll get lost in there . .
Maybe release a PDF with a comment&errata-thread on dumpshock.
And THEN take the stuff from the PDF make it into articles on the wiki.
And include errata/comments from the dumpshock board threads there.
Important: Links in the thread to the wiki-articles that are being talked about.
And maybe some of our very own shadowtalk as well *snickers*
That's pretty much what I was thinking about. The contributors can be "payed" by having their character names as the people writing the Jackpoint section, and the rest of us can get "payed" by having our character names put in place of ours from the forums as our forum comments are upgraded to Shadowtalk.
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jun 25 2010, 08:37 PM)
-- My first instinct is to submit a proposal for an official Shadowrun space sourcebook (probably 48 pp direct-to-PDF would be feasible) and continue to collate and expand my reference thread. If that's shot down I'm more than willing to do a fan creation
I've never been a writer for anything, so I've no idea how to do that. An actual canon book with my character's name in it would make me swoon. He might even be a contender for writing a section on the Transhumanism fad amongst the scions of the fabulously wealthy. I imagine they are the only ones at the current level of technology in SR that have the time and money to modify their bodies in way that require hanging out in a medical vat for several months at a time.
I've also had some writing given to me that includes things like various ways to try and make electrical energy using magic, which isn't everyone's cup of tea. Would there possibly be a section where things like that can have full articles written about them without requiring them going into canon? Or would that best be held for adding to a later wiki?
QUOTE
The contributors can be "payed" by having their character names as the people writing the Jackpoint section, and the rest of us can get "payed" by having our character names put in place of ours from the forums as our forum comments are upgraded to Shadowtalk.
Uhm, if I take my rigger, by far the most tech proficient of my characters (and the only one with remote space experience) ... well, my comments are certainly not in character.
And I'd refrain from putting my characters into collective fiction, not willing to hand them over to someone else.
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 25 2010, 09:30 PM)
Uhm, if I take my rigger, by far the most tech proficient of my characters (and the only one with remote space experience) ... well, my comments are certainly not in character.
And I'd refrain from putting my characters into collective fiction, not willing to hand them over to someone else.
And I'd refrain from putting my characters into collective fiction, not willing to hand them over to someone else.
Fair enough, and a good point. Any suggestions on attribution, or just go with the standard listing at the front?
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jun 25 2010, 04:37 PM)
-- My first instinct is to submit a proposal for an official Shadowrun space sourcebook (probably 48 pp direct-to-PDF would be feasible) and continue to collate and expand my reference thread. If that's shot down I'm more than willing to do a fan creation.
I would love an official book that collates all the past stuff in space, and updates it to the 2070s. Such a book would also of course have to include the items not yet described in canon, but required for the canon stuff to exist.
Land based plot hooks would be the beanstalk under proposal/construction, and space based plot hooks would of course be higher level/difficulty, but there is room for such stuf in the world/game.
Here are a few that got mentioned earlier for space:
--Mage prisons: Go ahead. Project. See how it goes, I dare ya.
--HMHVV emergency care center: if you get there before the virus takes hold, it dies. If you don't, you die.
--Orbital Construction Facility Sabotage
--Keeping AI from getting off planet
--Keeping SK from developing a lead in space manufacturing
--Witness Protection Program: screw your material link.
--Mage prisons: Go ahead. Project. See how it goes, I dare ya.
--HMHVV emergency care center: if you get there before the virus takes hold, it dies. If you don't, you die.
--Orbital Construction Facility Sabotage
--Keeping AI from getting off planet
--Keeping SK from developing a lead in space manufacturing
--Witness Protection Program: screw your material link.
QUOTE
Fair enough, and a good point. Any suggestions on attribution, or just go with the standard listing at the front?
Shadow talk or passing mentions may be okay. Insider joke kind of stuff, but nothing more.
QUOTE
--HMHVV emergency care center: if you get there before the virus takes hold, it dies. If you don't, you die.
And to think the Virus was treatable before the crash ... but yes, it's a nice idea. Please note it will not work on Type I, since the infection's prerogative is the victim being dead.
QUOTE
--Mage prisons: Go ahead. Project. See how it goes, I dare ya.
Azkhaban. I like it.
QUOTE (SkepticInc @ Jun 25 2010, 11:15 PM)
That's pretty much what I was thinking about. The contributors can be "payed" by having their character names as the people writing the Jackpoint section, and the rest of us can get "payed" by having our character names put in place of ours from the forums as our forum comments are upgraded to Shadowtalk.
Ah, good to hear . . but no payment on something like this in any kind or way . .
You relinquish any kind of copyright on the names used in shadowtalk, so even if someone else get's mentioned, you have no hold on them whatsoever.
This way, you can use them all in shadowtalk as well, without getting into any problems i would think.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 25 2010, 10:44 PM)
Ah, good to hear . . but no payment on something like this in any kind or way . .
You relinquish any kind of copyright on the names used in shadowtalk, so even if someone else get's mentioned, you have no hold on them whatsoever.
This way, you can use them all in shadowtalk as well, without getting into any problems i would think.
You relinquish any kind of copyright on the names used in shadowtalk, so even if someone else get's mentioned, you have no hold on them whatsoever.
This way, you can use them all in shadowtalk as well, without getting into any problems i would think.
Fair enough. So if you don't want your favorite character being given the Hatchetman treatment at some point, don't use them?
No, i meant the one doing the writing, not the posters, relinquishes any kind of rights to the names he gets to use for that one purpose only.
Also, the hatchetman-treatment . . i have tried time and time again to get a character that high up in standing with someone with access to a delta-clinic to get some first hand allmost cybermancy done . . maybe even complete cybermance at some point . . never worked <.<
Hatchetman is still talked about, even though he died years ago our time, so being compared to him is not all bad in my eyes . . you live as long as your name is spoken and your story is remembered.
Hatchetman will live forever in my mind at least. Well, untill my mind is gone i'm afraid . .
Also, the hatchetman-treatment . . i have tried time and time again to get a character that high up in standing with someone with access to a delta-clinic to get some first hand allmost cybermancy done . . maybe even complete cybermance at some point . . never worked <.<
Hatchetman is still talked about, even though he died years ago our time, so being compared to him is not all bad in my eyes . . you live as long as your name is spoken and your story is remembered.
Hatchetman will live forever in my mind at least. Well, untill my mind is gone i'm afraid . .
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 26 2010, 12:15 AM)
No, i meant the one doing the writing, not the posters, relinquishes any kind of rights to the names he gets to use for that one purpose only.
Also, the hatchetman-treatment . . i have tried time and time again to get a character that high up in standing with someone with access to a delta-clinic to get some first hand allmost cybermancy done . . maybe even complete cybermance at some point . . never worked <.<
Hatchetman is still talked about, even though he died years ago our time, so being compared to him is not all bad in my eyes . . you live as long as your name is spoken and your story is remembered.
Hatchetman will live forever in my mind at least. Well, untill my mind is gone i'm afraid . .
Also, the hatchetman-treatment . . i have tried time and time again to get a character that high up in standing with someone with access to a delta-clinic to get some first hand allmost cybermancy done . . maybe even complete cybermance at some point . . never worked <.<
Hatchetman is still talked about, even though he died years ago our time, so being compared to him is not all bad in my eyes . . you live as long as your name is spoken and your story is remembered.
Hatchetman will live forever in my mind at least. Well, untill my mind is gone i'm afraid . .
I quite agree about Hatchetman, he's doing well in the ratings. I was using him as an example of a radical change a character can go through when at the mercy of a devious developer's pen (or keyboard, I guess). My characters are usually about radical change, but I imagine that that's not universal.
(So I think I posted this in the wrong Shadowrun Space thread.... sorry!)
Hey Skeptic!
Cool idea about a Shadowrun Space supplement... I'd definitely be interested!
You mentioned in my Power Armor thread that you would be interested in one being built using the current SR4 Arsenal mod rules.... here's a excerpt of what I came up with. You can look in that thread for more details. "
Of course the car that's being modified is just a template we use to stay within the modification rules and to keep balance.
Your version of them doesn't to have anything to do with cars and they could come right off the assembly line with the final stats.
I hope you like it, and it's useful!
Hey Skeptic!
Cool idea about a Shadowrun Space supplement... I'd definitely be interested!
You mentioned in my Power Armor thread that you would be interested in one being built using the current SR4 Arsenal mod rules.... here's a excerpt of what I came up with. You can look in that thread for more details. "
QUOTE
Base Vehicle for Modification
Hyundai Shin-Hyung
Handling: +2
Accel: 20/45
Speed: 160
Pilot: 1
Body: 10
Armor: 5 (I assume it's concealed, as this is a street car)
Sensor: 1
Availability: - (Easy to find!)
Price: 17000 (Cheap enough for our runners!)
Also, we have a juicy 14 slots to play with... yum yum....
So what do we want? What are our Power Armor essentials? What makes Power Armor.... well, POWER ARMOR?
-2 Fully Articulated Mechanical Arms
-Walker Mode
-Rigger Adaptation (obviously)
-Rigger Cocoon (Basic is fine, though Enhanced is super cool if you can swing the 14 availability)
-Life Support (preferably Level 2 for a fully sealed Environment.... even works in space!)
-Armor (the more the merrier! if we remove the concealed armor we can get obvious Armor up to 20 and even free up an extra mod slot, as obvious only costs 1 slot and concealed is 2)
-Pimped Ride (more a requirement than a want... I'm sorry, but that Power Armor sticks out like a sore thumb and the mechanics of Pimped Ride are perfect)
IMHO, these are the bare essentials. Notice it doesn't include a weapon... but with the fully articulated arms you can easily carry some.... and you can always still mod some in (see below)
So altogether.... those essential mods come to *drumroll* ...
Arms = 4 slots/ nuyen.gif 8000
Walker Mode = 2 slots/ nuyen.gif 5000
Rigger Adaption = 1 slot/ nuyen.gif 2500
Rigger Cacoon (basic) = 1 slot/ nuyen.gif 1500
Life Support (Level 2) = 3 slot/ nuyen.gif 20000 <--- This is the big expense in nuyen and slots, but I think it's something that SkepticInc would especially be interested in for those Space runs
Normal Armor 20 (replaces concealed 5) = +1 slot/ nuyen.gif 4000
Pimped Ride (Level 2) = 1 slot/ nuyen.gif 5000
Including the downgrade form Concealed to Normal Armor, that's a net of 11 mod slots used and 46000 nuyen spent. No mod is over 12 Availability, so it's all available in chargen without the restricted quality.
So in total, this piece of basic functional Power Armor costs nuyen.gif 63000. Sounds about right to me! Much more than Milspec armor, but still cheaper than high-end 'ware.
Now that extremely modded Hyundai Shin-Hyung Street Racer looks like this....
"Blue Baller" Power Armor
Handling: +3
Accel: 10/23
Speed: 80
Pilot: 1
Body: 10
Armor: 20
Sensor: 1
Upgrades: 2 Mechanical Arms, Walker Mode, Rigger Adaptation, Rigger Cocoon, Life Support 2, Pimped Ride 2
Availability: 12R
Price: nuyen.gif 63000
But let's not forget we still have 3 mod slots to play with even before we get into potential overmodding.
You could even downgrade the Life Support to level 1 and save an additional 2 slots.
Also, you could argue that you could gain a mod slot or two by removing any extra passenger space from the car, as well as cargo space (like the trunk).
A short list of upgrades I would definitely be interested in...
-Assembly Time Improvement (for breaking it down and storing it in a much smaller place, like the back of a van)
-Extreme Environment Mod (as necessary, depending on the field of deployment)
-Ram Plate (Hell Yes! I would treat it as a shield on one arm. It wouldn't raise the armor, but would justify smashing stuff)
-Touch Sensors (for when you really have to feel like you are one with the machine)
-Weapon Mount w/ optional Ammo Bin
-Chameleon Coating
-Upgrading the Rigger Cocoon to Level 2 for some sweet autodoc action
-Body Stabilizer (I would almost consider this a part of the basic suit... super handy for maneuvering and recoil compensation)
Hyundai Shin-Hyung
Handling: +2
Accel: 20/45
Speed: 160
Pilot: 1
Body: 10
Armor: 5 (I assume it's concealed, as this is a street car)
Sensor: 1
Availability: - (Easy to find!)
Price: 17000 (Cheap enough for our runners!)
Also, we have a juicy 14 slots to play with... yum yum....
So what do we want? What are our Power Armor essentials? What makes Power Armor.... well, POWER ARMOR?
-2 Fully Articulated Mechanical Arms
-Walker Mode
-Rigger Adaptation (obviously)
-Rigger Cocoon (Basic is fine, though Enhanced is super cool if you can swing the 14 availability)
-Life Support (preferably Level 2 for a fully sealed Environment.... even works in space!)
-Armor (the more the merrier! if we remove the concealed armor we can get obvious Armor up to 20 and even free up an extra mod slot, as obvious only costs 1 slot and concealed is 2)
-Pimped Ride (more a requirement than a want... I'm sorry, but that Power Armor sticks out like a sore thumb and the mechanics of Pimped Ride are perfect)
IMHO, these are the bare essentials. Notice it doesn't include a weapon... but with the fully articulated arms you can easily carry some.... and you can always still mod some in (see below)
So altogether.... those essential mods come to *drumroll* ...
Arms = 4 slots/ nuyen.gif 8000
Walker Mode = 2 slots/ nuyen.gif 5000
Rigger Adaption = 1 slot/ nuyen.gif 2500
Rigger Cacoon (basic) = 1 slot/ nuyen.gif 1500
Life Support (Level 2) = 3 slot/ nuyen.gif 20000 <--- This is the big expense in nuyen and slots, but I think it's something that SkepticInc would especially be interested in for those Space runs
Normal Armor 20 (replaces concealed 5) = +1 slot/ nuyen.gif 4000
Pimped Ride (Level 2) = 1 slot/ nuyen.gif 5000
Including the downgrade form Concealed to Normal Armor, that's a net of 11 mod slots used and 46000 nuyen spent. No mod is over 12 Availability, so it's all available in chargen without the restricted quality.
So in total, this piece of basic functional Power Armor costs nuyen.gif 63000. Sounds about right to me! Much more than Milspec armor, but still cheaper than high-end 'ware.
Now that extremely modded Hyundai Shin-Hyung Street Racer looks like this....
"Blue Baller" Power Armor
Handling: +3
Accel: 10/23
Speed: 80
Pilot: 1
Body: 10
Armor: 20
Sensor: 1
Upgrades: 2 Mechanical Arms, Walker Mode, Rigger Adaptation, Rigger Cocoon, Life Support 2, Pimped Ride 2
Availability: 12R
Price: nuyen.gif 63000
But let's not forget we still have 3 mod slots to play with even before we get into potential overmodding.
You could even downgrade the Life Support to level 1 and save an additional 2 slots.
Also, you could argue that you could gain a mod slot or two by removing any extra passenger space from the car, as well as cargo space (like the trunk).
A short list of upgrades I would definitely be interested in...
-Assembly Time Improvement (for breaking it down and storing it in a much smaller place, like the back of a van)
-Extreme Environment Mod (as necessary, depending on the field of deployment)
-Ram Plate (Hell Yes! I would treat it as a shield on one arm. It wouldn't raise the armor, but would justify smashing stuff)
-Touch Sensors (for when you really have to feel like you are one with the machine)
-Weapon Mount w/ optional Ammo Bin
-Chameleon Coating
-Upgrading the Rigger Cocoon to Level 2 for some sweet autodoc action
-Body Stabilizer (I would almost consider this a part of the basic suit... super handy for maneuvering and recoil compensation)
Of course the car that's being modified is just a template we use to stay within the modification rules and to keep balance.
Your version of them doesn't to have anything to do with cars and they could come right off the assembly line with the final stats.
I hope you like it, and it's useful!
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