Dumpshock Forums > GM alternative ways of challenging a PC

Kohake

Jun 25 2010, 07:51 AM

No mater how you build a runner, it can't be prepared for everything and I find that instead of challenging the players by making everything really hard it is often a good idea to put them in situations where they need to do something they weren't optimized for. This might be hard in a big group because there is usually one player who covers that area. But sometimes that isn't enough to save the entire group. It is important to let the characters shine, but you should make them remember their weaknesses. I would much rather suffer from a choise I made during character creation than simply fighting enemies that are too strong.

The point of this topic, aside from entertaining me, is to learn more about how we can challenge players in new ways. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have trouble dealing with certain players being overpowered but even if you don't have that problem you could probably learn, or help others learn.

One important thing is that these are examples of how you could challenge a player, not a group. Because if the whole group is involved it is likely that one character can just breeze through the challenge so that the others don't have to. Note that the following are very general examples, but how to challenge someone with a certain combination of skills is relevant as well.

Examples:

[ Spoiler ]

I hope you find this an interesting read and I hope that this could help any GM that has problem handling their players without throwing dragons at them. You are all more than welcome to give your own sugestions. Infact I actually need some advice myself.

Platinum

Jun 25 2010, 01:42 PM

My favorite way to challenge a PC is with security measures.

I have lots of really high level security and make them do footwork to discover vulnerabilities/over come challenges. Pressure plates and air pressure sensors are two things. Closed systems that require getting the decker inside make things difficult.

Targets that are on the move a great deal also are very challenging.

Saddling a player or group with a civilian can really make things more difficult in social, and combat situations.

Having mundanes deal with magic issues complicates a situation. Having mages deal with matrix issues complicates as well.

Depending on how strong the group is, I will add additional layers of security. If the group is low level, then I start with normal security. Then have lone star or level 2 security show up. Make sure to mix in riggers/mages/and spirits.

Putting the characters in situations where they lose access to their gear levels a playing field quickly. All foci/weapons have to be checked at the door. Jammers can mess with someone's commlink.

Background counts/aspected sites are a nice way to shift balance subtly.

Blade

Jun 25 2010, 03:40 PM

I like to put my PC in situations where they don't know what's the right thing to do.

I like to challenge my PC with simple, human matters: a contact with a drug addiction, a girlfriend who doesn't want the runner to risk his life...

I also found myself extremely successful in challenging the PC with a rich and famous NPC. Someone kinda like Lady Diana who, unkown to everyone but the PC, sometimes engages in strange activities involving killing children. They still don't know if she's a shedmi, a blood mage, manipulated by a (possession) spirit or any other kind of magical threat. The problem is that she's powerful, famous and so well-liked that even other runners wouldn't believe the PC, even with trideo proof.

Kohake

Jun 25 2010, 05:08 PM

QUOTE (Platinum @ Jun 25 2010, 02:42 PM)

My favorite way to challenge a PC is with security measures.

I have lots of really high level security and make them do footwork to discover vulnerabilities/over come challenges. Pressure plates and air pressure sensors are two things. Closed systems that require getting the decker inside make things difficult.

Targets that are on the move a great deal also are very challenging.

Saddling a player or group with a civilian can really make things more difficult in social, and combat situations.

Having mundanes deal with magic issues complicates a situation. Having mages deal with matrix issues complicates as well.

Depending on how strong the group is, I will add additional layers of security. If the group is low level, then I start with normal security. Then have lone star or level 2 security show up. Make sure to mix in riggers/mages/and spirits.

Putting the characters in situations where they lose access to their gear levels a playing field quickly. All foci/weapons have to be checked at the door. Jammers can mess with someone's commlink.

Background counts/aspected sites are a nice way to shift balance subtly.

I've always wanted to challenge my PCs with a high level security but I'm not a very experienced GM and I don't even know where to begin. Any suggestion on what to read or just generally would really help.

Moving targets was something I haven't even thought of before. I feel kind of stupid but I haven't had a lot of inspiration for runs lately.

QUOTE (Blade @ Jun 25 2010, 04:40 PM)

I like to put my PC in situations where they don't know what's the right thing to do.

I like to challenge my PC with simple, human matters: a contact with a drug addiction, a girlfriend who doesn't want the runner to risk his life...

I also found myself extremely successful in challenging the PC with a rich and famous NPC. Someone kinda like Lady Diana who, unkown to everyone but the PC, sometimes engages in strange activities involving killing children. They still don't know if she's a shedmi, a blood mage, manipulated by a (possession) spirit or any other kind of magical threat. The problem is that she's powerful, famous and so well-liked that even other runners wouldn't believe the PC, even with trideo proof.

Those all sound like great ideas, but they all rely on the PCs caring about the whole "right or wrong" thing and aren't just there to get paid. The group I'm currently GMing have mostly experience with D&D and they are used to playing heroes and they seem to like the variation. So for now, I can't really count on any of them to give a damn about NPCs.(The first session we run was actually a test to see how much they would value the life of an innocent civilian. Turns out, they couldn't care less)

Laodicea

Jun 25 2010, 07:53 PM

QUOTE (Kohake @ Jun 25 2010, 12:08 PM)

Those all sound like great ideas, but they all rely on the PCs caring about the whole "right or wrong" thing and aren't just there to get paid. The group I'm currently GMing have mostly experience with D&D and they are used to playing heroes and they seem to like the variation. So for now, I can't really count on any of them to give a damn about NPCs.(The first session we run was actually a test to see how much they would value the life of an innocent civilian. Turns out, they couldn't care less)

Right or wrong is my game is mostly trying not to get yourself or your friends killed. I put dilemmas in front of them where they're unsure which decision is more likely to kill them.

tete

Jun 25 2010, 07:59 PM

QUOTE (Blade @ Jun 25 2010, 03:40 PM)

I like to put my PC in situations where they don't know what's the right thing to do.

I like to challenge my PC with simple, human matters: a contact with a drug addiction, a girlfriend who doesn't want the runner to risk his life...

I also found myself extremely successful in challenging the PC with a rich and famous NPC. Someone kinda like Lady Diana who, unkown to everyone but the PC, sometimes engages in strange activities involving killing children. They still don't know if she's a shedmi, a blood mage, manipulated by a (possession) spirit or any other kind of magical threat. The problem is that she's powerful, famous and so well-liked that even other runners wouldn't believe the PC, even with trideo proof.

/nod

My runs almost always end in a choice of the get rich thing, I'll actually live thing, or the morally right thing. Which do you choose? Notice if you do the rich or the moral thing you may die.

[edit] for example I recently rewrote Mecurial. In the end the runners sat down and decided which way to go, their options were.
1. Hand over Maria to Aztec, making 0 dollars and knowing they will likely kill her but they will live
2. Fight Aztec, make a million nuyen, if you live through it
3. Run from Aztech, no money, might die, but Maria will live.

They opted for run and Maria is now a brain wiped secretary in the Tir Tanger working for Dodger. Its best that she not remember who she was so Aztech wont find her again

In my version of Mecurial, Maria is a rockstar who used to be an Aztech top secret agent known as Silver Angel (Yeah that was a previous run). They lost contact after a run (building was blown sky high, she lost her memory) so when they saw she was a rock star they sent in an assassin to take her out. He failed, so now they sent in a strike force under Pendwyr. The runners were hired as extra protection after the assassination attempt. Her record company ended up being a front for the Yakuza to move drugs to and her manager was a plant from Aztech, oh and lets not forget the guys with the Silver Angel file (that the PCs had stolen prior) know who she is to (now)... wheels within wheels