I've noticed that the heavy pistols in shadowrun, while sized for humans and related....are a bit on the small side when you get your ripped, not to mention agumented trolls out there. Given the Advent of the .454 Casull round, and the .60cal pistols out there....is there anything for the Big boys and girls?

Troll Modified variants of the current guns on the market... what more do you want? If you really want some more bang-bang, get them a Minigun or Panther Assault Cannon...

Keep the Faith

well......given that a panther cannon is blood obvious....something like a .454 body pistol (I know, I know) seems reasonable.....the troll typically could control the recoil and could hit it on the body

just came across this
http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/rgrRH/

or this

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08...ith-454-casull/

SMG = troll-sized light pistol

But yeah, just for the drama, there should be some large-bore, short-barreled one-handed weapons. Mini grenade launcher?

The existing heavy pistols in SR4 are already in the same class as that. The Super Warhawk is 6P/-2, facrissake. It's basically shooting MMG ammo. If that's not a huge bullet, what is?

It's not an issue of caliber or bullet type; it's just a matter of bodywork. They could make a .454 Casull pistol but that wouldn't necessarily make the gun itself troll-sized; just because it's a big bullet does not automatically make the trigger guard accommodating for fingers the size of a beef burrito.
All arms can be modified for dwarf/troll usage. Now, yes, a Fichetti Security 500a would still be ridiculously small for a troll, sure; a Roomsweeper, Cavalier Deputy, or Colt Cobra would be less so. Still think that's too small to be considered a troll's sidearm? A cut down and re-sized T-250 or SPAS-22 should do the trick.

My Troll-Chars use
Trollsize modified Ruger Super Warhawk or Shotguns with (Trollsized) Pistolgrip (Or Trollbows)

he who dances with Trolls (SR-Trolls,not Internet-Trolls )
Medicineman

You bring up an interesting point, and it's an issue I've often had, especially with the way that Trolls are described and often drawn (badly or not) in SR artwork.

Just take a look at this, and especially this cover art.
Those are just two examples, but there are many more.

Even a Ruger Super Warhawk would look like a toothpick in their hands. The best example is the second picture (with one of the few troll in cover art I've ever liked). It's great because the woman runner is dual-wielding pistols, probably predators. And what does the Troll have? A..... pistol? But what fraggin caliber is that?!?!

The roadblock in my head is always the same thing.... even if you 'modify' the guns to have a grip that fits in a Trolls hands, won't it still look absolutely rediculous? It would just be a giant grip and trigger with a tiny little bore sitting on top of it.

At least in 3rd addition, trolls could wield many two-handed firearms with no penalty. So it was nothing to get a SPAS-22 with a pistol grip and shortened barrel and have that represent a decent Troll pistol. Unfortunately in 4th, they are penalized (though not as badly as others).

In SR4 Trolls can also wield Assault Rifles singlehandedly with only -1 or -2 Dice.
You might add extended Barrel (which is ImO too expensive) or you simply Pimp the Weapon
And yes ,I understand perfectly.I'm working on a Hellboy Samaritarian heavy Revolver for one of my Trolls
http://www.replix.de/shop/media/detail-hig...-revolver-3.jpg

or better this one
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/extra/8911_extra01.jpg

with an especially heavy Dance
Medicineman

To me, a troll would carry a shotgun the same way a human would carry a pistol and would carry an assault rifle the same way a human would carry a smg.
For example, the troll on the cover of Runner Havens might be using an assault rifle modded for single-troll-handed use.

Or SMGs its hard to ell but the length of the barrel makes me think he has two modded SMGs. Trolls only need automatics and heavy weapons frag the other skills.

Interesting sidetopic: How about concealability? It's obviously difficult to hide an Ingram Smartgun under a Duster, if you're Human. Too bulky. But if you're a Troll, you have a LOT more coat to cover your weapon under. Hell, a Troll could probably hide it under his armpit!. Where a human might have a problem hiding a regular sized Hunting Rifle under his Duster, a Troll on the other hand shouldn't find it to be a problem at all.

Yet, the rules for concealability make no distinction between Trolls and regular sized mortals...

Maybe it's because trolls get extra scrutiny in security in line for just that reason?

That would be a modifier to the perception roll, though

I guess they assume that all the equipment on the troll is going to be troll-sized. Then it would make sense that they have the same modifier(more or less). Though having the troll schlep the rest of the team's smaller guns might be a good idea.

I think the real reason there are no troll-centric firearms in Arsenal is because the big boys like Ares are not going to go to the bother for a customer base that is only ~1% of the population. Small-scale gunsmiths, though, could be all over the shadows, turning out troll-sized Predator-equivalents in the same ammo as Ruger Warhawks. This is where GMs have the opportunity to use RAW as a ladder, not a fence.

Also, I think most Troll-modded pistols should get double ammo capacity as standard.

Nearly all pistols in the game (minus revolvers, mainly) use a magazine inside the grip. When you go from a 5" long grip to a 10" long grip, you need to extend the magazine by the same amount, or the user cannot load the weapon. If you have the extra space, you might as well fill it with ammunition.

Unless you think it is reasonable to just glue a 5" block of wood to the bottom of the magazine...

This is a Troll we're talking about. Glue a 5" block of steel to the bottom of the magazine with a spike fashioned at the bottom, and you have an instant CQC combo weapon.

How about concealability? It's obviously difficult to hide an Ingram Smartgun under a Duster, if you're Human. Too bulky. But if you're a Troll, you have a LOT more coat to cover your weapon under.
and what about Dwarfes ?
what about a skinny 5' Elfenlady and a 7' ,350 Pd Ork Bruiser.
I think its necessary to make up Houserules If you're the GM ( I usually give or take 1 to 3 Dice)

Also, I think most Troll-modded pistols should get double ammo capacity as standard.
They should,yes, but RAW says it costs 500 ¥


hough!
Medicineman

Do they make sawed off Panther Assault Cannons, or how about a hold-out version?

Its not like you really need super range in most fights anyhow.

I think a hold-out panther cannon would be silly at best
Would probably look like the airzooka or something equally as ridiculous lol

Sawed-off makes much more sense

Twice the post for twice the fun?

Well, then my troll wants a double barreled, sawed off, assault cannon (that shoots flaming chainsaws).

With an under-barrel, radioactive mono-filament bola launcher.

Might as well make it a weapon focus (the chainsaws are chained to the gun [see what I did there]).

A double-barreled shotgun (double rifle, technically) in 25x59mm (or something equally impressive) would be exactly the kind of thing a shadow gunsmith would make in small batches for his well-funded troll customers.

This was actually covered in SR3. Trolls definitely got a modifier for concealing items on their person.
I used it to great effect with I played my troll Mafia Enforcer "Sandman" on the Shadowrun Seattle MUX. He wielded two SPAS-22's like pistols. Sawed-off with pistol grips.
I still have fond memories of meeting with a PC fixer and his PC bodyguard. The bodyguard gave me a quick pat-down and totally missed the shotguns under my coat. His employer wasn't happy when I pulled them out. Good thing I only wanted him to find a good gunsmith to get them modded, lol.

Trolls need something like this:
http://www.whatsthelatest.net/wp-content/u...estrevolver.jpg
Or the old Gun Hoax from way back, Birdman Weapon Systems.
Basically, the Barret M8A2 in Pistol-Size. Yes, a .50BMG Pistol . .

so assuming .454 Casull or .600 magnum in the standard light troll sidearm....where can we go from that

Back to where we started. The warhawk fires larger than assualt rifle ammunition.

Take short barrelled shotguns. Make a houserule that trolls can dual wield larger than SMGs. There ya go.

Why do I have to think of the .666 Pistol in CP2020?

Why not just house rules a bonus DV for firearms equal to +1 DV for each 3 pts of BODY above 3 ? only for size modified weapons ?

For a Troll, Shotguns ARE sidearms.
Trolls can and do dual wield/single handedly shoot even heavy weapons without too much trouble.
Take BF Shotgun, use ExEx Ammo, shorten Barrel, call it good.

Aye... that's about how i do it too. You can't just add on DV. But you can substitute weapon systems for others. Like sniper rifle one handed (and shortened etc.) With some overmodding or GM-decision.

You can fire even HEAVY WEAPONS like LMG's or PAC's or Gauss-Rifles or Miniguns one handed, if you want to . .
Troll HP=Shotgun.
Troll SMG=AR
Troll AR=xMG

If you want a high damage troll sized “hand” gun I would go with the Elephant Rifle.

Just remove stock and barrel (Barrel Reduction X2) for a +2 Concealability. Sure, It’s only a 2 shot “pistol” but it would do 10P AP-2 with Ex-Ex rounds. Give it a +1 to recoil and -20% range to represent the pistol grip and shortened barrel.

Is there still room for upgrading magazine capacity? O.o

Depends on your GM.

I would say that ”Additional Clip” and/or ”Improved Clip” can easily represent that the [B] loading mechanism have been changed to [C] for Cylinder and if there is space left add the ”Improved Cylinder” modification to get +2 Ammo.

The Improved Clip would give an ammo capacity of 2,5 and we round up that to 3 so we get a barrel loaded tri-barreled gun – and those exist in real life, OR a 3 shot cylinder in a one barrelled pistol. (After all, those exists in Borderlands ^_^ ).

The Additional Clip mod would give an ammo of 4 and such hunting rifles exists as well, albeit rare.

I certainly wouldn't let you use Addition/Extended Clip in that way. If necessary, the GM *should* provide addition (more expensive) options, to fairly represent the extensive modification required.

Personally, I think it's much more appropriate for trolls to use larger 'human' guns, as people have already mentioned; massively modified custom weapons would, of course, be the *rare* purview of crazy shadowrunners.

i still remember the Glock Drachentöter HPist with 10M Damage and SA Fire-Mode. With the Glock Greifenauge optical Scope and the under Barrel Laser-Pointer aside from the short reach of an HPist in general, you basically had a Hunting Rifle in your pocket . .

Stahlseele, I thought you were just happy to see me.

That's no stick shift, that's my automatic!

Caliber in guns in SR is something I've been meaning to make a thread about. It's always unspoken, but I do imagine that the Ruger Super Warhawk is either .454 Casull or .500 Winchester Magnum, as opposed to your more typical .44 Magnum or .357 Magnum. (As a contrast, I imagine the Ares Predator is probably loading 10MM Auto). The Eichiro Hatamoto on the other hand I imagine being essentially a .70 Cal musket.

Hmm... I have half a thought to stat out the 40 to 80 mm handguns from the game Underground.




-karma

Tastey Ghoul !

There's also the .500 S&W that the Super Warhawk might be chambered for.

As for the Ares Predator, the pic in the BBB shows it's chambered for 10mm Caseless. (At least, in 4th Edition.).

I've also described the .45 ACCP (Automatic Colt Caseless Pistol) for one of my characters. But that's just me, and I'm pretty old fashioned.

Lets see that full size shall we: http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/274/...by_Br0uHaHa.gif

Well, the pre-anniversary SR4 BBB uses the picture of the Super Warhawk from Arsenal 2060, the German edition of the SR3 Cannon Companion. In Arsenal 2060, you can clearly read "Super Warhawk .44" on the underlug. Doesn't say which .44 cartridge and depends on how canonical you consider the illustrations to be.

Anyway, any attempt of assigning calibers to SR weapons is IMHO always highly debatable, especially if you consider the changes in damage codes between the various editions.

Remember in real life guns are chambered in various calibers. Ruger Super Warhawk probably is available in .44, .357, .454 Casull, and .500 S&W. In a world where people have a total of ten health levels in general, I can buy the difference in power between a .357 and a .500 S&W being effectively negligible. Damage on a (more or less) one to ten scale just doesn't give you that much granularity. If you assume every gun is available in multiple calibers, it helps handwave the damage code changes between editions.

Same deal with the Ares Predator. It could be available in both 10mm and .50 AE, easy.

I picture the Colt Manhunter and Colt Government 2066 definitely being chambered in .45 ACP. (Or ACCP as someone said.)

Well, the .45 may be getting a new lease on life with the creation of the KRISS Vector.

Anyhow, back to Troll Guns, one thing that I think about is a combination of production and marketing. Yes, there's money to be made in making modifications of existing designs for Trolls, as that doesn't require complete retooling of equipment... But is there enough of a market to build anything specifically for them that isn't custom made?

Buildings still aren't built with Trolls in mind after all, just furniture for said buildings. Watch those low ceilings with the horns.

Hey man, the .45 ACP is an immortal cartridge. It will never die. (Seriously, plenty of modern guns use it because its stopping power is just better than 9mm.)

(1911 is my favorite gun can ya tell?)