So my pet programming project has gotten to the point where I'm trying to simulate the Matrix. I've got this idea, that if I have to keep a list of the commlink's stats and programs anyway, it's not that much of a stretch to have my MapTools automatically generate a Matrix node, in case the hacker wants to go VR. We have avoided the Matrix so far, doing occasional Hack-on-the-fly actions, but being able to hand the GM a node design at the push of a button has me very interested in the possibilities. I've been reminiscing about Shadowrun of years past, with hotshot deckers sleazing past ICE and exploring big systems.

...then I checked the 4th ed rules. We, uh...we don't do that anymore.

From what I can tell, every system is a box. This box has a basic Authentication, and probably an Analyse program. If you fail to bypass the Authentication, the system goes on alert. If the Analyse beats your stealth, the system goes on alert. If the system goes on alert, it will either dump you or (if the user had thousands on nuyen to invest) launch an ICE agent.

Bigger systems will be several boxes. You may also encounter other hackers.

I guess I have two questions for the community: Is there any way to realistically secure a basic commlink in this system, and is there anyone who isn't disappointed in the simplification of VR?

welcome to SR4, have asbestos long-johns handy.

btw, the dump is not automatic. It requires a extended test, iirc.

Disappointed? No, not at all. The old "node map" system from 1st and 2nd edition days was so slow and painful that I avoided it entirely. The advantage of 4th edition's system is that it can be a complex or as simple as you want it to be. If you really like the whole idea from 1st and 2nd of going from node to node, searching for that key piece of paydata then you can replicate that fairly easily by defining a whole bunch of different Nodes in 4th and have your Hacker have to hack from one to the other, fighting IC along the way. Or you can abstract that all into one node, but describe it RP terms as the PC moving around to all kinds of different places within the system.

To realistically secure a commlink, I'd say turn off its wireless signal. There are multiple options for the ultra-paranoid. Since many of my players still just use a commlink as a phone, its not too difficult a concept.

I like streamlining and very simple rules. I play Wushu. Compared to that, SR4 matrix rules are still quite complex. And for me, its not so much the complexity as it is resolving actions at the table. It takes time to go through the many, yet simple steps of hacking.

The problem with the old system is that it takes a while when the rest of the players are sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

The problem with the new rules is that they are a gross over-simplification and basically lose a lot of the colour and depth of the old system.

I tend to use a combination of the two - I think to purely use the new system is to render the decker a pale shadow of his old self.

If as a GM you dont want the complexity either have no deckers or have multi-skilled characters who also do a bit of decking?

The Matrix 2.0 is highly modular. It is also absurdly easy to GM in many ways. Whenever a player has an idea that would involve hacking through some kind of secured device or network, you eyeball the Rating and then double that for dice pools and away you go. Have a sheet of stock IC programs, pick one, and you now have opposition. It can be rather formulaic, but then the onus is on the player and GM to make things interesting.

Check out Knasser's excellent Sample Matrix Sites. This short .pdf can do wonders to enlightening a GM on how to design, on the fly even, simple multi-node networks that make sense and have a purpose.

Mmmm matrix security. I was the team's technohacker for a few month's (weekly sessions) and I've gotten used to the smushy mess of rules that is the matrix.

How to protect your 'link:

Restrict all privileges to Admin


Get Analyze 6 with optimization 3


Have your agents run scripts


Hardwire your 'ware


Turn it off!


Anonymizers


Keep it hidden!


Encrypt all day long



There's your basic how to keep yourself from getting hacked all to hell.

Will do, thank you.


I guess my main gripe is that there doesn't seem to be any reason to try and run VR under this system. Hacking in VR is exactly the same as hacking in AR, except you get a bonus and are vulnerable to dumpshock/blackice. It negates the need for my automatic node system; why bother describing VR, there's nothing different there.

I usually hack from VR because you get two free IP passes and a +2, versus one in the meat if you're unaugmented. Plus going into nodes via VR is just awesome. Topography is awesome. I'd feel free to either nerf AR hacking more or to give more bonuses to VR hacking.

VR is a heck of a bonus, chummer. It's all in the initiative passes: cybercombat with someone in VR while you're only in AR isn't likely to end well for you.

That's true. Let me explain: My MapTools is going to need some sort of interface for handling Martix attacks; when someone attacks a guard with a gun, targets are picked, bonuses are assigned, and damage is dealt. When someone hacks a device in AR, they will need to gain access privilages, race their matrix perception against the node's analyse to see if they can be in and out before an alert, and maybe beat the local ICE. Both of these are tied to a button, which will check the numbers and run the macro to tell you what happens.

I can take the list of programs and build a randomised map automatically; you could see the datablocks, programs, devices, and connections as active Tokens on the gameboard. In SR1/2, this would mean the GM doesn't have to design a Node for every commlink - hit a button and rock VR! However, in SR4, there isn't any reason to bother - a hacker in VR is going to follow the exact same process that a hacker in AR will. I just need to assign extra IPs, no need to have a VR map.

This makes me sad. I have a choice of keeping my framework RAW so that other Shadowrun 4th Ed players can use it when I'm finished, or houseruling in some of the cool Matrix stuff from earlier editions to make VR interesting.

Is there any action you can take in VR that you can't take in AR with a smaller dice pool?

I like having the AR, VR, hot/cold, etc. options. They're distinct and have their uses. Why worry?

AR *is* the same as VR, just slower and less 'colorful'. How's that a problem, mechanically or setting-wise? It's the same node, the same info.

You could always make all of your nodes UV nodes.

In earlier editions, Deckers were an elite corps, and working the Matrix well was a point of pride. Hell, I have a replica road sign on my wall that says "WATCH FOR ICE", because the Matrix was a big part of my personal mythology. Nobody trying to access the Matrix through a trode net or God forbid, a terminal, was taken seriously. It wasn't just about speed, either - being there in person meant that you saw the system in ways that normal users wouldn't understand. It was mysterious, and dangerous, and crazy. It was the Matrix.

Now, you can do everything you want to do in the Matrix from a cellphone, or just send an Agent to do it, because why bother.

Man, I'm all depressed now. I'm gonna go work on something else.

God, I'd forgotten about Khadim's sample matrix sheet. Consequently, I forgot I need to give it to *all* my players, because very few of them understand the new matrix.
Seriously, you are like a tiny god, sir.

The old-style Matrix was a separate game, unrelated to Shadowrun. That was a problem.

(The new-style Matrix is basically just a new way of picking locks, so that's a new problem. Oh well.)

Using VR is hardly what made a decker, the whole point of VR was an intuitive, eye-candy interface everybody and his brother could use. The defining point of deckers was what they did, and that they did it with tricked-out decks sporting Stealth and Evasion chips.
If anything, the new matrix has made VR users a smaller and more elitist circle, because now the average data miner can easily do his job in AR


So really, I fail to see your problem. VR can still be as detailed as you want, and nodes can be as big or small as you like them (note that "one node = one device" is not required, that's just a simplification which holds true for most everyday uses).

An easy fix for the SR4 hacking rules that would make hacking a more decker-esque (read: exclusive) thing would be to have certain attributes of the 'trix available only in full VR, hot-sim VR or with high rating gear.

Combine all three, and a hacker is the guy that runs bleeding edge SOTA 'ware and proggies, hot-simming the while and sees things that literally no one else can see, do things no one else can do.

MikeKozar your program sounds niffty. I hope you finish it.

...as do I, Eighty-eight. As do I.

Every goal needs a goalie. The matrix is no different: Use IC like a pro.

To secure a node have an Unrestricted Agent 6 (or IC 6 which is another sort of Agent) loaded with Cascading-3 and Expert Offense -3 and one other optimization preferably that buffs Analyze. You cant fight what you can't see, after all.

Then even if the PC is dodgy Cascading will spell his doom and force him to work fast. The more you rush the runner the more mistakes he'll make allowing Data Bombs and such to really leave their mark.

There is one very significant difference you must take into account. Everyone has AR. Everyone. All that cool VR stuff is now something everyone can see and interact with. Because the VR and AR views are the same, everyone can see and interact with whatever the Matrixy people are doing. Everyone can see, and they can care, and they can contribute and experience it. Matrix runs are for everyone. The Hackers and TMs just lead the way.

So that cool shit you've been building for your VR specialist is now available and cool for everyone at the table.

If you give up on that, then everyone loses.

The difference between AR and VR is analogous to the difference between Astral Perception and Astral Projection. Both allow you to interact with the Astral, but Projection allows you to do so where you are not. I imagine any node can and would have a different interface depending on how it was accessed: look at web pages that give you different layouts for a mobile device and a computer. They may be the same, but you have the opportunity for so much more access on a full computer.

Daisy chaining multiple commlinks so a hacker is forced to defeat several layers of defenses is another good idea.



-np

i would say that the matrix rules would become more interesting to more people if one could do something quickly. Like say virtually slapping someone from across the room (without it taking several minutes of setup that is).

the minimum times on matrix extended tests are basically silly.

Why? Do you have an Example that might help to illustrate your point?

Keep the Faith

Hahaha, this exact trick was brought up in Unwired actually. You should read the response, it's great... basically it's a newb trick that doesn't actually work.

hack on the fly is a complex action pr roll in a extended test with the target firewall as treshold.

in that time alone, how much lead can a samurai put into the same target, or how many spells can a mage deliver?

and even after that your limited to rebooting the targets hardware unless he happens to use hot sim VR at the time (highly unlikely).

That's talking about a hacker using multiple layers of commlinks while hacking to try and buffer himself against IC. It doesn't work because if you're facing an IC, your icon is there and as such the IC has a direct connection to your brain, no matter how many commlinks you've chained through.

I am referring to using it as a defense AGAINST being hacked, by putting several firewalls between you and the hacker. There's no direct connection in this case, the intruder has to overcome each little closed box before accessing the next.



-karma

But I really do not see that as being silly, at least in my opinion... it is going to take a hacker longer to perform a hack than it is for the Street Sam (or Mage) to kill an opponent... that is only logical... as for the Complex Action and Target Firewall... 2 Passes will generally get you into a Rating 6 Firewall (by Buying Successes) assuming that you have a Dice Pool of 12 (which is very easy to actually acquire)... Those exceptional Hackers/Technomancers, who have a few more Dice to play with, can expect to do that on average rolls, and can actually get in in a Single Complex Action if they roll well, or have Edge to spend...

Why would you not try to impede their communications? Or their tactical network, or Spoof the COmmunications to your benefit, or any number of other options rather than hacking someone who is likely dead by the time you hack their equipment? There are a ton of things that hte Hacker can do in teh same time frame that the Mage/Sam are killing things... If your Hacker is only trying to hack comlinks and turn off cyber (or whatever) they should really consider broadening their field a bit... Hacking Comlinks is not an action for trhe Hacker during combat... that is what they do before combat ever commences...

Keep the Faith

The problem there is the same as it always it: security versus usefulness (connectivity). If you want your cool computer to connect out to anything to do its job… oops. It's a good strategy option, but a limited one (like everything).

Which can be quite brutal if the Multi-Layer PAN is constructed with High-level Security in Mind... It is a rare Hacker/Technomancer that can penetrate all the way to my Cranial Comlink, for that very reason... Multiple Layers, 3 Deep, with judicious use of Security Programs, Agents, IC, and a Decent System Alert Response Configuration...

Keep the Faith

Unless, of course, you're using it as a commlink. In which case there are direct routes in. You can't get out without giving ways in.

I also love to use cranial commlinks like a router, segregating everything that is important from each other. Keep your guns/cybereyes/personal commlink all connected via a skinlinked commlink who is not wifi-enabled and has a big 'ole anti-hacker mentality. Then, via optical cable, run a second/third/whatever commlink about your person, either active or passive, but without making the direct connection to all your expensive but potentially hackable devices. Not only does it provide many layers of separation, it also grants a little security through obscurity (feh) and helps keep your commlink and your matrix persona segregated. Someone blows up your wireless commlink? Oh well, the guns still go bang. True, it is expensive, but in theory your skinlink commlink doesn't have to be very powerful. I'd probably optimize it for analyze and run an agent with a powerful analyze program, connected to a display/image link. If the system hits active alert, you pull the plug (on the wireless connection).

This sounds pretty cool, I hope you are able to get this working and share it with the public. I would love to see it.

In the vein of 'sams/mages kill things faster than you can hack them', I'd like to point out that hackers/TMs can hack things they can't see directly, etc. The sam can shoot any darn fool who steps out into the alley, but I am killing suckers with their household drones while they hide in the basement. Or busting up their tac net. Or firing their underbarrel grenade launchers in narrow corridors. Or posting the nude trid-pics of their secret dwarven mistresses onto public forums. And so forth...

Spoof is a combat weapon. Exploit is an Infiltration tool. You can spoof over and over again until you get a hit.

Though Spoof rules are kind of dumb. -3 dice and -6 dice depending on the access level needed to execute the command? You're spoofing another user's matrix ID. If they don't have access to do something, then it should't happen, and if they do have access, then the command should be followed without any added difficulty.
Dumb dumb dumb.


BTW, another good security tip is to have a dedicated Agent just to run Redirect Trace actions 4evrs. Track attempts then become an uphill battle and it keeps your ID safer, longer.

PS I had tried to start a Matrix VR environments superthread before. I'll link to that here.

Depends on what you mena by "secure a basic comlink". You can essentially execute drop-out via subscription lists. Frank noted other approaches:

"then people will simply make their systems unhackable by any of a number of architectural means (you can enjoy yourself in Unwired by slaving your sat uplink to your comlink, connecting them with a cable, turning the wireless off on the comlink master and then laughing like a lunatic according to page 55 - all wireless attempts at exploit have to go through the comlink which they automatically fail at, and any spoof attempts also automatically fail because there's no wireless communication to listen to so you can't have perceived the Access ID of the Master and the cheese stands alone)."

Nothing so special about that. Now you're stuck with a sat-only connection. Again, you've made a tradeoff. Possibly it's a good tradeoff for your needs, possibly it's a bad one. Why would you even need to slave the uplink, though?

I never agreed with Frank's assessment of this. All his slaved Satlink system would get you is preventing people from hacking into you by spotting your physical location and accessing you directly. If you are actually doing something with that Commlink connected to a Satlink on the Matrix, then your persona from that commlink is out on the Matrix "somewhere" doing "something." In that case, your Persona can be perceived and traced back to its source, at which time a counter-hack can be initiated. The rules in Unwired say that any attempt to access a slaved device automatically redirect to the master, therefore attempting to hack the Satlink just means a hack against the master commlink.

Bottom line: if you have opened your commlink up to any sort of two-way communication with the Matrix-at-large then you are hackable. End of story.

Side note: if you would also like a detailed explanation of why Frank's "you can experience the Matrix without a commlink" system doesn't work you can read it here.

Yeah, that's the way it should be working. Frank's interpretation of some of the rules are a little wacky, to say the least.

my understanding is that frank basically took the mage as the zero point, and observed how far "behind" the hacker was, then built rules to life the hacker to the level of the mage. Or at least, that seems to have been his MO when doing other kinds of rules work around the net.

Sure you can... Just secure the access paths and you go a long way to keeping it clean... You may not be 100% secure, but you can sure slow someone down a lot if you really try...

Keep the Faith

Sorry, no idea what that means. All ways out are ways in, that's the law.

He's saying that out is a two step operation, so that in becomes a two step operation as well. This is like having two locked doors between your house and the street. However, every time you go outside to do something, you leave the two doors behind you. You are then effectively out in the open.

Some Laws are just suggestions...

Basically, I can use a system with full access and full communications out... any one, other than me, will have to defeat the many levels of security to access my pathways back in... sure, they may get in eventually, but then again, they may also take enough lethal feedback to kill them before they ever get close (After all, they only need tro miss one high Rated Data Bomb to be toast)... it really is not that hard to do... either way, you will have slowed them down; hopefully enough to complete what you were doing, and disappear from the matrix...

Keep the Faith

Right, so it's a way in. That's what I said.

Sure... but a very risky way in... which was whay I implied (poorly apparently)...

Keep the Faith

Personally, a proper Decker in a fully wireless world is likely to switch it all off and only use cables...

The point is not to stop the hack. This is impossible, as you said, if there's a way out, there's a way in.

The point is to make the hack take so much time and be so difficult & dangerous that by the time the hacker has breached your fifth level of defenses he has just enough time to say, "oh crap" as a bullet enters his brain.

It's like securing a house. You can't stop someone who is determined to get in. You can only slow them down enough for other factors to com into play.



-karma