OK, so after much discussion in the Regular Army vs. Shadowrunner thread I have decided to just do up some basic stats for a typical UCAS Army Fireteam, similar to the NPC Grunt write ups in the Core book. So.....
UCAS Army Fireteam (Professional Rating 3)
Although the UCAS has taken a more protectionist view to foreign policy in the world of magic and extraterritoriality, it still maintains one of the best equipped, most professional, all volunteer armed forces in the sixth world. For many UCAS citizens, military service represents one of the only ways to get a leg up in society, and off the farm or out of the sprawl. While many are enticed by the benefits of training, recruitment bonuses, and veterans benefits, for some, the prospect of “three hots and a cot” is enough. While the UCAS Army has not officially taken part in operations outside its borders in decades, the Chicago bug outbreak, Renraku Arcology shutdown, and border tensions with the Sioux have kept them relevant in the 2070s
Rifleman:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 3 (Assault Rifle), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Thermal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M-23 (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Grenadier:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 3 (Assault Rifle), Heavy Weapons 2 (Grenade Launcher), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Termal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M22A3 (Smartgun, 2 HE Grenades, 2 Frag Grenades, 2 Smoke Grenades), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Automatic Rifleman:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 2, Heavy Weapons 3 (Machine Gun), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Termal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), Ares MP-LMG (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Fireteam Leader:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 4 (Assault Rifle), Perception 3, Unarmed Combat 2, Leadership 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Thermal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M-23 (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Firewall 6, Analyze 3, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Notes: Apply Racial Modifiers as appropriate. There is a general propensity towards Orks in the Automatic Rifleman position.
Next Project: Weapons Fireteam/Squad, Squad Leader, Platoon Leader and other Platoon Positions (Radioman, Forward Observer, Medic, etc)
Full Version: UCAS Army Fireteam
Odds are the new sourcebook "WAR" is probably going to be loaded with this kind of stuff. And I'm hoping for someone I know to run a WAR based Shadowrun game, because being in the thick of combat somewhere in south america with all kinds of hell on both sides, just sounds like fun.
I think you might want to add an Analyze 3 to each of those commlinks. At least rating 3. Each soldier should have a commlink set up to allow any hacking attempts to be (reasonably) detectable and send an alert to the Platoon hackers. Compromising the tacnet is a real serious issue for these fellas.
QUOTE (noonesshowmonkey @ Jul 17 2010, 11:35 PM) 
I think you might want to add an Analyze 3 to each of those commlinks. At least rating 3. Each soldier should have a commlink set up to allow any hacking attempts to be (reasonably) detectable and send an alert to the Platoon hackers. Compromising the tacnet is a real serious issue for these fellas.
Good catch.
Also, the way I envision it, the defensive Hackers (Spiders) are probably a Battalion Level Asset, within the Communications Platoon of the Headquarters and Service Company. Offensive Hackers are most likely part of the Communications Battalions.
Um... so does anyone know how I can change the formating so that the Attributes line up like I want them to?
QUOTE (Belvidere @ Jul 18 2010, 12:31 AM)
Odds are the new sourcebook "WAR" is probably going to be loaded with this kind of stuff. And I'm hoping for someone I know to run a WAR based Shadowrun game, because being in the thick of combat somewhere in south america with all kinds of hell on both sides, just sounds like fun.
I just hope it has what I want on the Southeast Asia conflict. That's the warzone I want to run.
QUOTE (LivingOxymoron @ Jul 18 2010, 12:29 AM)
OK, so after much discussion in the Regular Army vs. Shadowrunner thread I have decided to just do up some basic stats for a typical UCAS Army Fireteam, similar to the NPC Grunt write ups in the Core book. So.....
UCAS Army Fireteam (Professional Rating 3)
Although the UCAS has taken a more protectionist view to foreign policy in the world of magic and extraterritoriality, it still maintains one of the best equipped, most professional, all volunteer armed forces in the sixth world. For many UCAS citizens, military service represents one of the only ways to get a leg up in society, and off the farm or out of the sprawl. While many are enticed by the benefits of training, recruitment bonuses, and veterans benefits, for some, the prospect of “three hots and a cot” is enough. While the UCAS Army has not officially taken part in operations outside its borders in decades, the Chicago bug outbreak, Renraku Arcology shutdown, and border tensions with the Sioux have kept them relevant in the 2070s
Rifleman:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 3 (Assault Rifle), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Thermal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M-23 (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Grenadier:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 3 (Assault Rifle), Heavy Weapons 2 (Grenade Launcher), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Termal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M22A3 (Smartgun, 2 HE Grenades, 2 Frag Grenades, 2 Smoke Grenades), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Automatic Rifleman:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 2, Heavy Weapons 3 (Machine Gun), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Termal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), Ares MP-LMG (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Fireteam Leader:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 4 (Assault Rifle), Perception 3, Unarmed Combat 2, Leadership 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Thermal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M-23 (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Firewall 6, Analyze 3, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Notes: Apply Racial Modifiers as appropriate. There is a general propensity towards Orks in the Automatic Rifleman position.
Next Project: Weapons Fireteam/Squad, Squad Leader, Platoon Leader and other Platoon Positions (Radioman, Forward Observer, Medic, etc)
UCAS Army Fireteam (Professional Rating 3)
Although the UCAS has taken a more protectionist view to foreign policy in the world of magic and extraterritoriality, it still maintains one of the best equipped, most professional, all volunteer armed forces in the sixth world. For many UCAS citizens, military service represents one of the only ways to get a leg up in society, and off the farm or out of the sprawl. While many are enticed by the benefits of training, recruitment bonuses, and veterans benefits, for some, the prospect of “three hots and a cot” is enough. While the UCAS Army has not officially taken part in operations outside its borders in decades, the Chicago bug outbreak, Renraku Arcology shutdown, and border tensions with the Sioux have kept them relevant in the 2070s
Rifleman:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 3 (Assault Rifle), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Thermal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M-23 (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Grenadier:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 3 (Assault Rifle), Heavy Weapons 2 (Grenade Launcher), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Termal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M22A3 (Smartgun, 2 HE Grenades, 2 Frag Grenades, 2 Smoke Grenades), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Automatic Rifleman:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 2, Heavy Weapons 3 (Machine Gun), Perception 2, Unarmed Combat 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Termal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), Ares MP-LMG (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Analyze 3, Firewall 6, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Fireteam Leader:
B A R S C I L W Ess Init IP
4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 6 8 1
Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
Skills: Automatics 4 (Assault Rifle), Perception 3, Unarmed Combat 2, Leadership 2
Gear: Camouflage Suit, Helmet (Integrated 'Trode Net), Goggles (Lowlight, Thermal, Flash Comp, Smartlink, Image Link), M-23 (Smartgun), Medkit, Military Commlink (Device Rating 3, Firewall 6, Analyze 3, TacNet 3, Non-Standard Wireless Link)
Notes: Apply Racial Modifiers as appropriate. There is a general propensity towards Orks in the Automatic Rifleman position.
Next Project: Weapons Fireteam/Squad, Squad Leader, Platoon Leader and other Platoon Positions (Radioman, Forward Observer, Medic, etc)
Your fire team seems to be modelled after the US Armed Forces. Wouldn't the UCAS army be more modelled after a Canadian fire team instead. The reason I say this is both the USA and Canada suffered huge hits to their GDP (due to a loss of land and resources) during the Great Ghost Dance War. As a result, the US style of hyper specialization will no longer work (it is too expensive). The Canadian model of base level generalization and then trade specific specialization is more cost effective in the long run, and produces more rounded and more effective fire teams. I would have the following break down:
3 Riflemen (one designated as the Squad leader) with a standardized Assault rifle/SMG (mission dependent) as a primary weapon, Grenades, and comlink (all slaved to the SigOp).
1 "Heavy" with standardized LMG as a primary and all the other equipment that a Rifleman has.
1 SigOp (Signal Operator aka hacker) with all the equipment of a Rifeman but with a militarized commlink for ECM and EPM (formerly ECCM).
The key point is that everyone would cross skill in everyone else's positions (with maybe the exception of the SigOp) and if anyone were killed (like the "Heavy" someone else can pick up the LMG and take over that role to complete the mission. In fact most positions would rotate within the squad (with event the squad leader taking "heavy" duty once in a while.
Any magical assets (assigned to the squad on a mission specific dependence) would be integrated as a rifleman (also makes it harder to pick them out).
CODE
b a r s
1 2 3 4
1 2 3 4
Line up like that? You put it in a Code box.
[.code] text goes in hyar [./code]
Without the full stops.
I like. Some thoughts/suggestions:
- I'd argue that a fireteam would probably be wearing Full Body Armor with a helmet - yeah it's more expensive, but relatively small relative to the overall cost of the soldier. To quote SR4A: "Worn by military and security personnel around the world..."
- They'd probably be sporting some audio enhancements as well, somewhere in the squad. Dampers, that sort of thing.
- Depending on the mission, APDS is probable as well. At least one of their clips.
- Regular soldiers would probably be carrying a few grenades as well. High Ex or Frag, depending on the expected opposition.
- In a future, highly networked battlespace, whether or not they have drones at the fireteam level is debatable. Me, I think yes. Others think yes. I'm not thinking armed drones, but little things like Eye Balls, or micro-flyer drones with cameras for situational awareness.
- Smartguns can be used to designate targets, but a team would probably have a microwave or radar designator as part of their kit, depending on what sort of artillery/air support they had in the area.
- I think the Commlinks would be rated much higher, but there's room for debate. Certainly, I think they'd have higher Signal ratings and possible ECCM to deal with electronic attack.
- I agree with the other post that hackers would probably be at a higher echelon. However, I think that some primarily defensive IC sitting on the team's commlinks makes sense. Analyze/Attack.
- They would definitely be running a maximum rating tactical network (4, by Unwired). And each soldier would probably be carrying one or two special sensors (ultrasound, radar, orientation system, etc.) to support it, in addition to the stuff in their helmets. If they aren't using TacNets, who the hell developed them?
I'd replace Automatics with the Firearms SGp, just for a more versatile enemy. I'd also probably switch reaction for Strength with each of these guys (especially the guy lugging an LMG around) and consider giving one of them (grenadier or automatic rifleman) a LAW for breaching/light anti-vehicle purposes (it's only about 2k). And yeah, one of them needs a more hardened commlink and moderate skill in the electronic warfare/computer department. Also, don't forget that Athletics is a core part of the discipline training most soldiers go through.
QUOTE (Runner Smurf @ Jul 18 2010, 07:33 PM)
I like. Some thoughts/suggestions:
- I'd argue that a fireteam would probably be wearing Full Body Armor with a helmet - yeah it's more expensive, but relatively small relative to the overall cost of the soldier. To quote SR4A: "Worn by military and security personnel around the world..."
- They'd probably be sporting some audio enhancements as well, somewhere in the squad. Dampers, that sort of thing.
- Depending on the mission, APDS is probable as well. At least one of their clips.
- Regular soldiers would probably be carrying a few grenades as well. High Ex or Frag, depending on the expected opposition.
- In a future, highly networked battlespace, whether or not they have drones at the fireteam level is debatable. Me, I think yes. Others think yes. I'm not thinking armed drones, but little things like Eye Balls, or micro-flyer drones with cameras for situational awareness.
- Smartguns can be used to designate targets, but a team would probably have a microwave or radar designator as part of their kit, depending on what sort of artillery/air support they had in the area.
- I think the Commlinks would be rated much higher, but there's room for debate. Certainly, I think they'd have higher Signal ratings and possible ECCM to deal with electronic attack.
- I agree with the other post that hackers would probably be at a higher echelon. However, I think that some primarily defensive IC sitting on the team's commlinks makes sense. Analyze/Attack.
- They would definitely be running a maximum rating tactical network (4, by Unwired). And each soldier would probably be carrying one or two special sensors (ultrasound, radar, orientation system, etc.) to support it, in addition to the stuff in their helmets. If they aren't using TacNets, who the hell developed them?
Full Body Armor can not be modded with Mobility Upgrade (from Arsenal), so if body 4 soldier wear it, he/she would have major penalties to Reaction
and Initiative.. so unless soldier have at least Body 6, Full Body Armor would be really bad idea for combat troop.
QUOTE (Belvidere @ Jul 18 2010, 02:31 AM)
Odds are the new sourcebook "WAR" is probably going to be loaded with this kind of stuff. And I'm hoping for someone I know to run a WAR based Shadowrun game, because being in the thick of combat somewhere in south america with all kinds of hell on both sides, just sounds like fun.
For me, what would be cool to do is the Twilight 2000 scenario with this. Fighting your way across a destroyed Europe, trying to get back home, only to find it in as much disarray as Europe. That could be real fun. And by fun I mean... EVIL.
How would, for example, you expect a CAS fireteam to differ from a UCAS one?
Honestly, I think that the battlespace by 2072 will be fully integrated with drones and netwar. As such, the commlinks would be militarized, high signal, high response models loaded with good defensive programs and IC and running a nice TacNet. This allows every soldier in the squad to carry and deploy small sensors and drone packages that will integrate vertically to literally any level of command.
I would imagine that Hackers would exist at the Platoon level with Company or Battalion level assets that have heavier gear. The Weapons Platoon of any company will, by 2072, be at least 50/50 drone based. You can run a militarized Doberman or Steel Lynx with a MMG really easily. Make the weapons mount modular, and you can move your 120 mm mortars around, totally replacing the lighter 81 or 60mm units.
Hacking support at the Company or Battalion level would be units outfitted specifically for offensive hacking. Squad level devices should be centered on Defense in a doctrine similar to how the current MCMAP program handles close combat: hold the enemy at bay and stay alive long enough that a buddy with a gun can come and kill whoever you are fighting with. Squad level hacking, in my mind, would be all about realizing a hacking attempt is taking place and deploying countermeasures while scrambling for called in hacking support.
Also, I strongly agree with APDS being primary weapons loadout for all magazines, or at least half. Also, each soldier should be carrying several grenades. Soldiers should have maximal body armor for an average body of 4. It is much cheaper to equip troops with the best armor available than it is to train them or take care of them after they are wounded.
I would imagine that Hackers would exist at the Platoon level with Company or Battalion level assets that have heavier gear. The Weapons Platoon of any company will, by 2072, be at least 50/50 drone based. You can run a militarized Doberman or Steel Lynx with a MMG really easily. Make the weapons mount modular, and you can move your 120 mm mortars around, totally replacing the lighter 81 or 60mm units.
Hacking support at the Company or Battalion level would be units outfitted specifically for offensive hacking. Squad level devices should be centered on Defense in a doctrine similar to how the current MCMAP program handles close combat: hold the enemy at bay and stay alive long enough that a buddy with a gun can come and kill whoever you are fighting with. Squad level hacking, in my mind, would be all about realizing a hacking attempt is taking place and deploying countermeasures while scrambling for called in hacking support.
Also, I strongly agree with APDS being primary weapons loadout for all magazines, or at least half. Also, each soldier should be carrying several grenades. Soldiers should have maximal body armor for an average body of 4. It is much cheaper to equip troops with the best armor available than it is to train them or take care of them after they are wounded.
QUOTE (SecGuard @ Jul 18 2010, 11:13 AM)
How would, for example, you expect a CAS fireteam to differ from a UCAS one?
At the Fireteam level, probably not much, if at all. The only thing that I could imagine would be that the CAS probably places more emphasis on individual, small unit leadership vs. a UCAS reliance on centralized Command and Control. At least, that's the way I run it in my Shadowrun world.
Later on, I'm going to stat out a CAS Marine Corps Fireteam, just for S's&G's, and to do honor to my beloved Corps.
I like it. There's a few things I'd add.
For the commlink: ECCM, to prevent jamming. Stealth to revent commnods and tacnets from being found out (it actually does help, nodes can hide with stealth).
At least one person is going to a signal 6 commlink to stay in touch with home(or a r6 directional antennae, or a satlink).
There's probably going to be at least one EW specialist to help with enemy tacnets(or at least know enough to call a friendly rigger in through the satlink to help out)
Sensors. Military people live and die by their information. More so in the high-tech world of shadowrun. Radar and Ultrasound packages at a minimum(they do make external packages). Possibly a cyberware scanner, because they're dirt cheap, and give accurate information on weapons and implants your opposition can be carrying(which can then be fed into a tacnet's database to determine exactly who you're fighting).
Biomonitors. Seriously. Skinlined biomonitors hooked up to trauma patches, or autoinjectors with a similiar loadout.
The exotic ranged skill: target designator at one or two. Yes, its pretty annoyingly an exotic skill, but its less of a dice pool penalty than information targeting, and I think being able to paint a target for fire support is a fairly reasonable skill for army people to have.
Drones! Doberman are cheap. IBalls make great pocket-buddies, strapped on an equipment belt(with an improved sensor and ultrawideband radar). Optic-X's are made for scouting! On the other hand, extra gear such as drones may very well be handed out on a mission-by-mission basis. On the other hand, a drone is significantly cheaper than training another soldier.
For the commlink: ECCM, to prevent jamming. Stealth to revent commnods and tacnets from being found out (it actually does help, nodes can hide with stealth).
At least one person is going to a signal 6 commlink to stay in touch with home(or a r6 directional antennae, or a satlink).
There's probably going to be at least one EW specialist to help with enemy tacnets(or at least know enough to call a friendly rigger in through the satlink to help out)
Sensors. Military people live and die by their information. More so in the high-tech world of shadowrun. Radar and Ultrasound packages at a minimum(they do make external packages). Possibly a cyberware scanner, because they're dirt cheap, and give accurate information on weapons and implants your opposition can be carrying(which can then be fed into a tacnet's database to determine exactly who you're fighting).
Biomonitors. Seriously. Skinlined biomonitors hooked up to trauma patches, or autoinjectors with a similiar loadout.
The exotic ranged skill: target designator at one or two. Yes, its pretty annoyingly an exotic skill, but its less of a dice pool penalty than information targeting, and I think being able to paint a target for fire support is a fairly reasonable skill for army people to have.
Drones! Doberman are cheap. IBalls make great pocket-buddies, strapped on an equipment belt(with an improved sensor and ultrawideband radar). Optic-X's are made for scouting! On the other hand, extra gear such as drones may very well be handed out on a mission-by-mission basis. On the other hand, a drone is significantly cheaper than training another soldier.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jul 18 2010, 03:13 PM)
I like it. There's a few things I'd add.
For the commlink: ECCM, to prevent jamming. Stealth to revent commnods and tacnets from being found out (it actually does help, nodes can hide with stealth).
At least one person is going to a signal 6 commlink to stay in touch with home(or a r6 directional antennae, or a satlink).
There's probably going to be at least one EW specialist to help with enemy tacnets(or at least know enough to call a friendly rigger in through the satlink to help out)
Sensors. Military people live and die by their information. More so in the high-tech world of shadowrun. Radar and Ultrasound packages at a minimum(they do make external packages). Possibly a cyberware scanner, because they're dirt cheap, and give accurate information on weapons and implants your opposition can be carrying(which can then be fed into a tacnet's database to determine exactly who you're fighting).
Biomonitors. Seriously. Skinlined biomonitors hooked up to trauma patches, or autoinjectors with a similiar loadout.
The exotic ranged skill: target designator at one or two. Yes, its pretty annoyingly an exotic skill, but its less of a dice pool penalty than information targeting, and I think being able to paint a target for fire support is a fairly reasonable skill for army people to have.
Drones! Doberman are cheap. IBalls make great pocket-buddies, strapped on an equipment belt(with an improved sensor and ultrawideband radar). Optic-X's are made for scouting! On the other hand, extra gear such as drones may very well be handed out on a mission-by-mission basis. On the other hand, a drone is significantly cheaper than training another soldier.
For the commlink: ECCM, to prevent jamming. Stealth to revent commnods and tacnets from being found out (it actually does help, nodes can hide with stealth).
At least one person is going to a signal 6 commlink to stay in touch with home(or a r6 directional antennae, or a satlink).
There's probably going to be at least one EW specialist to help with enemy tacnets(or at least know enough to call a friendly rigger in through the satlink to help out)
Sensors. Military people live and die by their information. More so in the high-tech world of shadowrun. Radar and Ultrasound packages at a minimum(they do make external packages). Possibly a cyberware scanner, because they're dirt cheap, and give accurate information on weapons and implants your opposition can be carrying(which can then be fed into a tacnet's database to determine exactly who you're fighting).
Biomonitors. Seriously. Skinlined biomonitors hooked up to trauma patches, or autoinjectors with a similiar loadout.
The exotic ranged skill: target designator at one or two. Yes, its pretty annoyingly an exotic skill, but its less of a dice pool penalty than information targeting, and I think being able to paint a target for fire support is a fairly reasonable skill for army people to have.
Drones! Doberman are cheap. IBalls make great pocket-buddies, strapped on an equipment belt(with an improved sensor and ultrawideband radar). Optic-X's are made for scouting! On the other hand, extra gear such as drones may very well be handed out on a mission-by-mission basis. On the other hand, a drone is significantly cheaper than training another soldier.
Great ideas. I was mostly going for a "Standard Loadout", so I think that I would agree with you that the smaller drones would be given on a mission-by-mission basis, just like manportable Anti-Armor or Anti-Air weaponry.
I didn't stat it out, but one of my original ideas was to have the Team Leader's be the ad hoc infowar specialist, in the sense that he/she would have limited training to recognize when the links or TacNet was being hacked and forward it up the chain so that one of the Battalion Spiders (in full HotSim in a hardened location or vehicle) could launch Agents to assess the situation or deal with it personally (calling in the Regimental Comms Battalion's counterhackers as needed).
As for scouting drones, I can kind of see that being handled by the individual Squad Leaders. They would deploy them as needed and exercise limited control, but they would be monitored by someone else in the Platoon, either the Platoon Commander's Radioman, or the Forward Observer or his/her assistant/driver. In fact, I think that it is entirely plausible for the Forward Observer's job to monitor, control, and disseminate the information provided by the Platoon Drones, with actual flesh-and-blood FO duties handled by more specialized assets attached to higher HQ.
Makes sense. I do like the leader having EW-skills. Another good idea is to have the leader paired up with an decent rating Agent, with a high rating Analyze(optimized, if necessary), with the Homeground autosoft - basically, it gets a decent dice pool sit on the team's network and Analyze everything. If it notices something is off, it raises an alert and tells someone. On the other hand, Agent dicepools can pretty easily be surpassed by a trained metahuman, so having a dude with the same skills is a good idea.
On drones: I find it would be more likely that the fireteam's Ride(like a future Humvee or something) would have a Drone Rack equipped as a part of its standard loadout. Because, in shadowrun, it makes sense to have a standardized recon drone(with a gun) on hand for anyone near their ride, before they send the troops in. Now that I think about it, it'd probably be a Rotodrone. And -then- they get mission-specific gear, on top of that loadout.
Which brings us to another point. Your team needs Driving skills. Even if they aren't GOOD, a few dice will do.
If you like, i can probably stat together a reasonable, standardized Gruntmobile fairly quickly to go with your army dudes.
On drones: I find it would be more likely that the fireteam's Ride(like a future Humvee or something) would have a Drone Rack equipped as a part of its standard loadout. Because, in shadowrun, it makes sense to have a standardized recon drone(with a gun) on hand for anyone near their ride, before they send the troops in. Now that I think about it, it'd probably be a Rotodrone. And -then- they get mission-specific gear, on top of that loadout.
Which brings us to another point. Your team needs Driving skills. Even if they aren't GOOD, a few dice will do.
If you like, i can probably stat together a reasonable, standardized Gruntmobile fairly quickly to go with your army dudes.
Military Humvee:
HotSpur Thundercloud
Handling: +1
Accel: 20/50
Speed: 200
Pilot: 1
Body: 16
Armor: 10
Sensor: 2
Cost: 60,000
Upgrades:
Comes Standard:
Extreme Enviornment (Desert/Jungle) (1)
Personal Armor: 6 (2)
Off Road Suspension (1)
Engine Customization (2)
Smart Tires
Additional:
Additional Fuel Tank (1) +6 Operation time
Ammo Bins (1)
Armor: (1) +10 total of 20
Drone Rack Small Landing (3)
ecm 8 (1)
Rigger Adaptation (1)
Weapon Mount (6)
Reinforced size
Turret
Manual/remote control
This adds up to about 20 customizations.
Which is fine with the overmoding rules.
Total Cost: 100200
The weapon mount would probably be a standard issue Heavy Machine Gun, or a Panzer Assault Cannon, depending on mission load out.
This would be the kind of weapon I would expect from:
First World Military, Expensive Mercenaries, High End Corp.
Poor Military would probably have the base vehicle, with a flexible manual only weapon mount.
HotSpur Thundercloud
Handling: +1
Accel: 20/50
Speed: 200
Pilot: 1
Body: 16
Armor: 10
Sensor: 2
Cost: 60,000
Upgrades:
Comes Standard:
Extreme Enviornment (Desert/Jungle) (1)
Personal Armor: 6 (2)
Off Road Suspension (1)
Engine Customization (2)
Smart Tires
Additional:
Additional Fuel Tank (1) +6 Operation time
Ammo Bins (1)
Armor: (1) +10 total of 20
Drone Rack Small Landing (3)
ecm 8 (1)
Rigger Adaptation (1)
Weapon Mount (6)
Reinforced size
Turret
Manual/remote control
This adds up to about 20 customizations.
Which is fine with the overmoding rules.
Total Cost: 100200
The weapon mount would probably be a standard issue Heavy Machine Gun, or a Panzer Assault Cannon, depending on mission load out.
This would be the kind of weapon I would expect from:
First World Military, Expensive Mercenaries, High End Corp.
Poor Military would probably have the base vehicle, with a flexible manual only weapon mount.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jul 18 2010, 11:13 PM)
At least one person is going to a signal 6 commlink to stay in touch with home(or a r6 directional antennae, or a satlink).
There's probably going to be at least one EW specialist to help with enemy tacnets(or at least know enough to call a friendly rigger in through the satlink to help out)
There's probably going to be at least one EW specialist to help with enemy tacnets(or at least know enough to call a friendly rigger in through the satlink to help out)
-- An EW specialist in every squad? I doubt that is an effective allocation of resources beyond one or two people in the squad having a bit more hands-on time on specialist equipment. They would be rather hapless against a real hacker anyways, so concentrate on mitigating the effects of any intrusion and distributing capabilities so that one strike on your HQ doesn't shut down the entire tacnet.
QUOTE
Sensors. Military people live and die by their information. More so in the high-tech world of shadowrun. Radar and Ultrasound packages at a minimum(they do make external packages). Possibly a cyberware scanner, because they're dirt cheap, and give accurate information on weapons and implants your opposition can be carrying(which can then be fed into a tacnet's database to determine exactly who you're fighting).
-- I would try to keep the sensors at a minimum. How useful are radar and ultrasound going to be 99% of the time?
QUOTE
Biomonitors. Seriously. Skinlined biomonitors hooked up to trauma patches, or autoinjectors with a similiar loadout.
-- Biomonitors sure. Autoinjectors probably not needed (and the less stuff that can break, be hacked, run out of power, etc the better).
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 18 2010, 06:08 PM)
-- An EW specialist in every squad? I doubt that is an effective allocation of resources beyond one or two people in the squad having a bit more hands-on time on specialist equipment. They would be rather hapless against a real hacker anyways, so concentrate on mitigating the effects of any intrusion and distributing capabilities so that one strike on your HQ doesn't shut down the entire tacnet.
I agree. I kind of have it in my head that the OJT and/or formal training that one gets when they become a Fireteam leader includes basic InfoWar/InfoSec training. Nothing enough to engage an OPFOR hacker, but enough time with the Team/Squads Agents to know what to look for with regards to signs of hacking, and call in Spider support if necessary. When one becomes a Squad Leader, they receive more training on the TacNet and Drone systems.
QUOTE
-- I would try to keep the sensors at a minimum. How useful are radar and ultrasound going to be 99% of the time?
They are necessary for the TacNet. The individual soldier might not have need for it, but the more data being fed into the TacNet, the better analysis and direction it can provide.
QUOTE
-- Biomonitors sure. Autoinjectors probably not needed (and the less stuff that can break, be hacked, run out of power, etc the better).
I agree with you on this. Spoofing an autoinjector would be a good way to f*** up a squad, or tie up the Platoon Medic.
QUOTE (SecGuard @ Jul 18 2010, 01:13 PM)
How would, for example, you expect a CAS fireteam to differ from a UCAS one?
The CAS has always been a proprietor of good old fashion American values, and as such I expect them to cling (regardless of the cost) to the classic US armed forces model of equipping and training of their troops (ie specialization of combat roles). A fire team would have 2 Riflemen, 1 Officer (Lt), 1 Machine gunner, and a Signal operator. The greatest asset of this system is that it creates very good individuals in the team. The machine gunner will be the best machine gunner in any system. The greatest hindrance of this system is that it lowers the bus factor (ie the number of people that need to be hit by a bus before the team is screwed).
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Jul 18 2010, 06:04 PM)
The CAS has always been a proprietor of good old fashion American values, and as such I expect them to cling (regardless of the cost) to the classic US armed forces model of equipping and training of their troops (ie specialization of combat roles). A fire team would have 2 Riflemen, 1 Officer (Lt), 1 Machine gunner, and a Signal operator. The greatest asset of this system is that it creates very good individuals in the team. The machine gunner will be the best machine gunner in any system. The greatest hindrance of this system is that it lowers the bus factor (ie the number of people that need to be hit by a bus before the team is screwed).
Snark?
http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/wp-content/...ure-soldier.jpg
This is NATO's Future Warrior project. Already we have working prototypes, and this sistem is due to be standard issue 25 years (their reasoning is that today's wars are taking place on a house-by-house, room-by-room basis, in cities with civilians. Instad of bigger bombs and faster planes, NATO is switching its attention to improving the survivability and killability of the soldier.
So, this is 30 years. SR is 200 years in the future. It's not so hard to believe that your average soldier will have this (or even light MilSpec armor) standard issue.
This is NATO's Future Warrior project. Already we have working prototypes, and this sistem is due to be standard issue 25 years (their reasoning is that today's wars are taking place on a house-by-house, room-by-room basis, in cities with civilians. Instad of bigger bombs and faster planes, NATO is switching its attention to improving the survivability and killability of the soldier.
So, this is 30 years. SR is 200 years in the future. It's not so hard to believe that your average soldier will have this (or even light MilSpec armor) standard issue.
QUOTE (da Loof @ Jul 18 2010, 07:33 PM)
http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/wp-content/...ure-soldier.jpg
This is NATO's Future Warrior project. Already we have working prototypes, and this sistem is due to be standard issue 25 years (their reasoning is that today's wars are taking place on a house-by-house, room-by-room basis, in cities with civilians. Instad of bigger bombs and faster planes, NATO is switching its attention to improving the survivability and killability of the soldier.
So, this is 30 years. SR is 200 years in the future. It's not so hard to believe that your average soldier will have this (or even light MilSpec armor) standard issue.
This is NATO's Future Warrior project. Already we have working prototypes, and this sistem is due to be standard issue 25 years (their reasoning is that today's wars are taking place on a house-by-house, room-by-room basis, in cities with civilians. Instad of bigger bombs and faster planes, NATO is switching its attention to improving the survivability and killability of the soldier.
So, this is 30 years. SR is 200 years in the future. It's not so hard to believe that your average soldier will have this (or even light MilSpec armor) standard issue.
63, not 200. Factor of 3ish.
QUOTE (da Loof @ Jul 19 2010, 12:33 AM)
So, this is 30 years. SR is 200 years in the future. It's not so hard to believe that your average soldier will have this (or even light MilSpec armor) standard issue.
No more than 40 years in the future if you are playing in the 2050's. And that armor makes me think of Jin Roh: The Wolf Brigade.
First World Military squads out in combat should be well equiped, well armed, and well supported.
Now, Military MP's on a base that is considered to be 'not in a combat zone' would have much less support,equipment, etc.
Mp's don't wear milspec armor on guard duty, unless they expect actual combat.
There will probably be a very bored hacker/spider/rigger on overwatch keeping an 'eye' on the drones.
Actually There's probably only about 5-6 hackers for the whole base, 10 or so riggers, and probably 1 rigger for every 15 or so drones.
Now, Military MP's on a base that is considered to be 'not in a combat zone' would have much less support,equipment, etc.
Mp's don't wear milspec armor on guard duty, unless they expect actual combat.
There will probably be a very bored hacker/spider/rigger on overwatch keeping an 'eye' on the drones.
Actually There's probably only about 5-6 hackers for the whole base, 10 or so riggers, and probably 1 rigger for every 15 or so drones.
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 18 2010, 06:08 PM)
-- An EW specialist in every squad? I doubt that is an effective allocation of resources beyond one or two people in the squad having a bit more hands-on time on specialist equipment. They would be rather hapless against a real hacker anyways, so concentrate on mitigating the effects of any intrusion and distributing capabilities so that one strike on your HQ doesn't shut down the entire tacnet.
-- I would try to keep the sensors at a minimum. How useful are radar and ultrasound going to be 99% of the time?
-- Biomonitors sure. Autoinjectors probably not needed (and the less stuff that can break, be hacked, run out of power, etc the better).
-- I would try to keep the sensors at a minimum. How useful are radar and ultrasound going to be 99% of the time?
-- Biomonitors sure. Autoinjectors probably not needed (and the less stuff that can break, be hacked, run out of power, etc the better).
You're right. It would be much more effective to have an agent with the EW autosoft issued to every squad. Heck, in a military program package, it'd probably be a Program Suite with the Tacnet(and encrypt, and analyze).
Sensors are incredibly useful, not to mention common. Radar and ultrasound, for example, are unidirectional and ignore some vision penalties. That right there is awesome.
Going to have to disagrree with you. Autoinjectors are way too useful. They're like issueing a medic to the squad! for free!(less than 1k is less than a belt of nice ammo for a machingune) Hacking is a pretty pointless concern - because that's what the skinlink is for. It doesn't care about external, wifi input - because it doesn't have any! Ditto the biomonitor. Or, because the military likes reliable, failsafe technology - manual buttons. Its not to hard to make certain devices that don't need networking unhackable(without a physical connection, but if they have that, you're screwed anyway)
One telling thing I noticed missing from these stats (which are nice, by the way) are Throwing Weapons(Grenades) skills. IIRC, they still teach the mooks to toss a pineapple, aye?
Throwing Weapons 2 (Grenades)
That would give them Agility+tacnet+4 dice for throwing hand grenades.
Only certain special forces guys would have a throwing weapons of 3/4.
That would give them Agility+tacnet+4 dice for throwing hand grenades.
Only certain special forces guys would have a throwing weapons of 3/4.
Hum, should the Hummer have a full NBC safe environment mode ? That is pretty standard I think...
QUOTE (IKerensky @ Jul 19 2010, 03:36 PM)
Hum, should the Hummer have a full NBC safe environment mode ? That is pretty standard I think...
I don't think so.
Certainly I could see a custom modified one with an NBC safe environment added to it because of mission parameters.
But I don't think they'd be rolling off the factory line like that.
Where as Desert or Jungle Modified Morgans totally make sense.
If it's got a top-mount for the MG, it's not going to be sealed. I'd think they would prefer the weapon mount over the NBC seal anyway.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jul 19 2010, 07:47 AM)
If it's got a top-mount for the MG, it's not going to be sealed. I'd think they would prefer the weapon mount over the NBC seal anyway.
It's only +500y for a remote controlled turret.
QUOTE (sabs @ Jul 18 2010, 10:12 PM)
First World Military squads out in combat should be well equiped, well armed, and well supported.
Now, Military MP's on a base that is considered to be 'not in a combat zone' would have much less support,equipment, etc.
Mp's don't wear milspec armor on guard duty, unless they expect actual combat.
There will probably be a very bored hacker/spider/rigger on overwatch keeping an 'eye' on the drones.
Actually There's probably only about 5-6 hackers for the whole base, 10 or so riggers, and probably 1 rigger for every 15 or so drones.
Now, Military MP's on a base that is considered to be 'not in a combat zone' would have much less support,equipment, etc.
Mp's don't wear milspec armor on guard duty, unless they expect actual combat.
There will probably be a very bored hacker/spider/rigger on overwatch keeping an 'eye' on the drones.
Actually There's probably only about 5-6 hackers for the whole base, 10 or so riggers, and probably 1 rigger for every 15 or so drones.
Most MPs that I've seen in my career are better armed and armoured then their civilian counterparts (you have to keep in mind the people they are arresting could be better armed then your run of the mill criminal). At the very least they wear an armour jacket and pack Heavy pistols with APDS ammo as a standard.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jul 19 2010, 05:57 AM)
One telling thing I noticed missing from these stats (which are nice, by the way) are Throwing Weapons(Grenades) skills. IIRC, they still teach the mooks to toss a pineapple, aye?
I think I tossed all of about 2 live grenades in Combat Training. Then again, I'm not a grunt.
QUOTE (LivingOxymoron @ Jul 19 2010, 06:34 PM)
I think I tossed all of about 2 live grenades in Combat Training. Then again, I'm not a grunt.
Well I wouldn't expect them to throw many of 'em, but I also think they'd at least have some cursory training with flashbangs and pineapples since these guys are getting assigned to what amounts to be urban warfare.
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Jul 19 2010, 08:52 AM)
Most MPs that I've seen in my career are better armed and armoured then their civilian counterparts (you have to keep in mind the people they are arresting could be better armed then your run of the mill criminal). At the very least they wear an armour jacket and pack Heavy pistols with APDS ammo as a standard.
Agreed. Although they take base security VERY seriously. If a team were to infiltrate a base and be found out, it would only be a couple of minutes before they'd have to face down MPs in SWAT Armor and High Powered assault rifles with APDS Ammo. On larger bases, especially those that house a lot of signals or intel related stuff, I could honestly see them fielding a team with fully modded, Heavy Mil Spec Armor and maybe even laser weaponry.
QUOTE (SecGuard @ Jul 18 2010, 11:13 AM)
How would, for example, you expect a CAS fireteam to differ from a UCAS one?
They would have Intimidation(Rebel Yell) 3 in additiona oto other skills
Military Humvee doesn't really sound something like army would have. All military vehicles that i know and have drive have used more fuel, oil and are slower and heavier. I would take same base vehicle and add more weight( armor ) drop top speed ( i think there isn't rules for that) to keep acceleration. No engine customization , because in my opinion customization is tuning for more power from standard engine and those tend to blow more easily.
Other things. i thought that UCAS didn't have any desert or jungle terrain anymore, CAS i think has. For UCAS it would be better idea to have modification for cold terrain
. I could see how ARES supplies same "humvee" to all countries now in north america, with area depended enviroment modifications and some backward compatibly with "humvee" from 2050, 2030, 2000... After all we are talking vehicle which is in my understanding use in all USA forces and its just cost effective have some kind upgrade path.
Other things. i thought that UCAS didn't have any desert or jungle terrain anymore, CAS i think has. For UCAS it would be better idea to have modification for cold terrain
. I could see how ARES supplies same "humvee" to all countries now in north america, with area depended enviroment modifications and some backward compatibly with "humvee" from 2050, 2030, 2000... After all we are talking vehicle which is in my understanding use in all USA forces and its just cost effective have some kind upgrade path.QUOTE (stevebugge @ Jul 19 2010, 03:00 PM)
They would have Intimidation(Rebel Yell) 3 in additiona oto other skills
Plus their base firearms would be a 4 not a 3.
The Humvee needs more than 10 armor. It should be all but immune to small arms fire, and 10 armor isn't going to cut it. Full armor 20 takes 1 slot and costs a measly 4000 nuyen, and protects against full AV rounds from assault rifles from anyone who isn't an amazing shot.
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 20 2010, 10:41 AM)
The Humvee needs more than 10 armor. It should be all but immune to small arms fire, and 10 armor isn't going to cut it. Full armor 20 takes 1 slot and costs a measly 4000 nuyen, and protects against full AV rounds from assault rifles from anyone who isn't an amazing shot.
It's the Should part of that statement which has been a pretty major headache in places like Mogadishu, Iraq, and Afghanistan. My understanding is the Humvee is more of a utility vehicle that has combat configurations than a dedicated combat vehicle (like a Bradley for example)
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 20 2010, 09:41 PM)
The Humvee needs more than 10 armor. It should be all but immune to small arms fire, and 10 armor isn't going to cut it. Full armor 20 takes 1 slot and costs a measly 4000 nuyen, and protects against full AV rounds from assault rifles from anyone who isn't an amazing shot.
Nissan Patrol-1 w/ improved armor mods and other mods..
Tata Hotspur (changing desert designation to needed),and armor mods.
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 20 2010, 07:41 PM)
The Humvee needs more than 10 armor. It should be all but immune to small arms fire, and 10 armor isn't going to cut it. Full armor 20 takes 1 slot and costs a measly 4000 nuyen, and protects against full AV rounds from assault rifles from anyone who isn't an amazing shot.
Did you actually read the slots on the modded Morgan I put up (which is basically a humvee)
16 body, 20 armor.
QUOTE (stevebugge @ Jul 20 2010, 07:58 PM)
It's the Should part of that statement which has been a pretty major headache in places like Mogadishu, Iraq, and Afghanistan. My understanding is the Humvee is more of a utility vehicle that has combat configurations than a dedicated combat vehicle (like a Bradley for example)
Most humvees are utility and transport vehicles, but after the Somalia conflict heavily armored humvees went into limited production. But, this is 2070 and the cost is neglible to get a humvee that can take a hit.
QUOTE (sabs @ Jul 20 2010, 08:02 PM)
Did you actually read the slots on the modded Morgan I put up (which is basically a humvee)
16 body, 20 armor.
16 body, 20 armor.
My bad. But it needs +20 not +10. Additional armor starts at 0 (because you have to strip the current armor off).
yeah, but I paid for the rating 20 armor anyways... so it's covered.
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 20 2010, 08:22 PM)
Most humvees are utility and transport vehicles, but after the Somalia conflict heavily armored humvees went into limited production. But, this is 2070 and the cost is neglible to get a humvee that can take a hit.
-- In Shadowrun I would agree that you probably want your utility vehicles to be resistant to smallarms fire at least. You don't need everyone shuttled around in ungainly MRAPs, but immunity to pistol rounds and decent protection against rifle fire should be mandatory minimum. The days of expecting your rear echelons to be reasonably secure are dead now, and LONG dead in Shadowrun.
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