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Johnny Hammersticks
Alright, I'll admit that I dislike the idea of pixies in the game as much as some of you dislike technomancers.

That said, for those of you who have seriously played a pixie, was it for the beardiness or because you actually thought it would cool to play a pixie in a dark future cyberpunk Gibson meets Tolkien mashup? Please tell us about it.

As the GM, I would let players be pixies, if they really wanted to, but I can't imagine they'd ever get work. Imagine the face to face with the Johnson.

Of course you could be the hidden member of the party, maybe the hacker who stays back in the van, but I can't imagine it would be easy to get a pixie-sized commlink. Watch out for cats and groups of young boys too.



Yerameyahu
Can't imagine anything *easier* than a pixie-szied commlink. Commlinks can be essentially any size or shaped, and it's not like you hold them to your ear. You interface wirelessly with trodes, contacts, earbuds, etc.
Draco18s
Our pixie stayed invisible most (all) of the time, hitched rides on other players (frequently) and had one health spell: Intoxicate (that spell that makes people drunk). Which he* used all the time. Oh, and he* constantly drank.

*Player was male, character was female.
Daylen
I might have once, but I was drunk and feeling experimental! don't judge me! having done so does not effect my manliness one bit!
MortVent
yeah much better to play a troll mage... rather than something from a fairy tale ya know... ;p

It's all in how the character is protrayed.

I've seen pixies played with chips on thier shoulder that would make most gillettes look like sweet lil ol girl scouts, and others that were easy going sorts running the shadows for kicks
tagz
I currently have a pixie adept hacker as the group's NPC hacker. One delta grade datajack, cause he's "my" character and it's about time I use my GM powers for a little selfishness twirl.gif . Character-wise he's a black sheep in the family, embracing tech and abandoning a great deal of traditional pixie stuff, media junkie, etc. This caused some problems with his interactions with his own kind so he left for the cities.
Minchandre
I would say a pixie is probably mostly a regular shadowrunner, but there are a few things that would be different. Remember the character probably comes from some woods somewhere, so likely has a rural background. Also, recall the out-of-placeness that trolls and dwarves experience due to size, and square it. Even ignoring things like chairs being too tall and too deep to sit in comfortably, and toilets being too large to use easily, just consider a pixie trying to eat a goddamn candy bar: it would be the equivalent size of a sub sandwich.

Also, because I've been heavily considering trying to play a pixie recently, I've been trying to think of how to do it. Clothes and armor make sense, though clearly would have to be made custom, but what about weapons? Knives wielded with two hands I could do, but how would a pixie carry a gun? Allow them to use pistols that have been modified to hold like longarms? Allow heavy and machine pistols, or just limit them to light? How much stronger is the recoil on an entity that weights like <10kg? Who's flying? Also, if I were a GM, I'd make encumbrance much more of an issue than for metahumans.
MortVent
pixies tend to be the rigger/decker infiltration types as mundanes and magic dynamos as awakened

And not all have to grow up in the wild, some have moved into the cities
dirkformica
Pixie possession-mage, with the Shapechange spell is a real powerhouse. Such tasty drain stats and human-esque edge. Then you've got -Magic attribute to detect them when they want to Infiltrate (with their high Agility and small size.) I've wanted to play one since I first saw Runner's Companion, but alas, it has not yet happened.
The Jopp
I made a Pixie mage a while ago.

Due to size and the fact that the pixie in question have a problem with most weapons she went with a pistol size crossbow (which would be like a medium crossbow for her).

Mostly using Stick N Shock crossbow bolts and Incendiary or Injection bolts with Neurostun.

The ability to give everyone searchign for her a -6D6 perception check on the physical plane apart from the ruthenium modified second skin line armor suit was useful too.

She also had a 'slight' problem with Tir Elf nobles due to the little (now dead) noble who enjoyed pulling/cutting off wings of pixies for fun. Yes, she lacks wings since the only need for flight is the magical ability, not the actual wings.

Primary job was spelldefense and combating spirits and had soem useful spells for everyday life.

Analyze Device (restricted target self)
Fix
Fashion
Shapeshange (restricted target self - metahuman)
Powerball (restricted target - nonliving, blowing peoples guns and clothes off but leaving them alive)

The Jopp
QUOTE (dirkformica @ Jul 20 2010, 10:01 AM) *
and human-esque edge.


Where IS it written that they have a base Edge attribute of 2 and maximum of 7?

I've looked everywhere and found nothing?
IKerensky
Windlings are a major part of Earthdawn...

Pixies SHOULD be here in Shadowrun smile.gif
The Jopp
A pixie adept with a HtH weapon is a scary thing.

Lets assume a primitive city tribal pixie in redmond armed with a regular hunting spear with a personal grip and specialization in spears.

Let us also say we maximize his agility and he have an average pixie strength of 2.

Base damage 3P

Dicepool
Agility: 8
Skill: 8
Reach: +2
Personal Grip: +1
Dicepool: 19D6

Now we give him a magic of 6 and ruthenium suit.
We can also coat the weapon in some local poison
We also add improved ability for Melee at +3D6 as an adept.
We also add improved ability for Infiltration at (?) amount.

So we look at 22D6 attack with a surprise test since we A: Fly B: Are invisible.

If we are so inclined we could also go with a Stun staff and have a base of 6S(e) reducing teh targets armor in half and have 22D6 attack dice.

We can also go with a vibro sword for a base damage of 5P -2 armor and 21D6

And how could I forget - the monowhip pixie...20D6 8P -4 armor
IKerensky
Windlings Wings produce a Humming sound very audible when flying. Also even if not required for the actual flight if they lose the wings they tend to be psychologically unable to fly anymore.
The Jopp
QUOTE (IKerensky @ Jul 20 2010, 12:34 PM) *
Windlings Wings produce a Humming sound very audible when flying. Also even if not required for the actual flight if they lose the wings they tend to be psychologically unable to fly anymore.


And where in the RAW is that? Running wild? I find nothing about it in runners companion. Besides, it's "tend to be" which mean some can overcome it. I would say it would require a higher magic rating than 1 in that case.
Wasabi
I find them appealing because they fly and are small. I'm sketching out a Pixie Physad with Type O system and thus far he amuses me greatly although he is still forming in the vat that is chargen. I imagine him with a Custom look Extended Clip Holdout pistol (Cavalier Scout) modelled into a lever action Winchester using Custom look and a Microkatana (Cougar Fineblade knife with Custom look: Katana). The bonus to intimidate combined with falsetto makes me chuckle.

To an earlier poster, it says their max edge is 7 but does not say they get a +1 Edge.

As for staves and whips the FAQ says they can use up to a holdout pistol or knife although your GM may disagree on how 'hard and fast' their example is.

Honest question... since they are Sapient Critters can someone with a Body thats low enough shapechange into a Pixie strictly by RAW?
Mäx
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Jul 20 2010, 02:06 PM) *
Where IS it written that they have a base Edge attribute of 2 and maximum of 7?

Maximum 7 is in the end of not metahuman paragraph in page 84 of runners companion.
Yerameyahu
Yes, it doesn't say you start with 2, it says the max is 7. Given how many free stats they already get… wink.gif

No, you can't shapechange into a Pixie. No special critters at all, IIRC; either nothing with a Magic, or something like that.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Wasabi @ Jul 20 2010, 12:40 PM) *
As for staves and whips the FAQ says they can use up to a holdout pistol or knife although your GM may disagree on how 'hard and fast' their example is.


Well, Technically speaking they can use any weapon as long as one use the Metahuman Customization modification.

Now, dont get me wrong, I'll slap someone silly if they give the pixie a huge gun but ANY kind of melee weapon would be just fine as it would be built after their own size, guns are an iffier question.

Guns are especially problematic since they usually have the ammunition in the grip, and pixies are basically small children in size, and they usually dont make guns for children, unless you count those micro guns I've seen pictures of somewhere on the web, you know, the tiny, tiny goldplated uzi on a keychain...

Is there a good way of combining melee weapons in SR4?

Take a basic Spear, combine it with a Stun Staff and then combine those with a Telescopic staff.

Best way to do it would be:

1: Add the cost together
2: Add the availability together

Collapsible Stun Spear with an availability of 10R and require two skills. Clubs for the back end of the spear that contains an electroshock attachement and blades skill for the Spear end.
Gamer6432
Actually, Pixies are shorter than young children (assuming you mean not infants). Average Pixie height is 45 cm, which is roughly 1ft 5in. I'd say anything larger than a hold out or modified light pistol is going to be too big to handle effectively, regardless of recoil factors.
Yerameyahu
The problem with the, The Jopp, is that size is often part of the inherent identity of melee weapons. It's certainly part of their damage and reach stats.
The Grue Master
I have had numerous pixies in my campaigns (which tend to be less urban-centric) as they make incredible social adepts and magicians and more than make up for the lack of soak ability with difficulty in being hit. I found the best way to deal with the fantasy-esque nature of pixies was to address it head on, i.e. I didn't make jokes or play to the stereotypes (just like elves) and the group stopped caring pretty quickly. I also found it helpful to claim that by merit of being magical creatures, the pixies Strength and Body were not proportional to a similarly sized human; this helped explain why weapons that were proportionally too large could be used. Also, as a house rule, we declared the pixies' wings to be not directly related to their ability to fly and that damage to wings would regrow with a good night of sleep (more if they were terribly mangled).
Yerameyahu
I don't think anyone's saying Pixies aren't powerful (QUITE the opposite, that's the problem). smile.gif The problem is, half of the balance *is* saying that they can't use too-big things. If you give them effectively normal guns, there's nothing left to stop them.
MortVent
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 20 2010, 05:20 PM) *
I don't think anyone's saying Pixies aren't powerful (QUITE the opposite, that's the problem). smile.gif The problem is, half of the balance *is* saying that they can't use too-big things. If you give them effectively normal guns, there's nothing left to stop them.


Trode net at 2x cost
Commlink unit (probabbly a vest unit vs a std one) with sim module

Drones.. lots of shiny drones with guns.. big guns, little guns..

>:3

And spirits... nasty nasty spirits


My DM said I was not to have a character that has that much firepower in that game... something about a cheerful little pixie singing the doom song while unleasing digital and magical armageddon scared him
Yerameyahu
Exactly. Totally overpowered.
MortVent
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 20 2010, 05:27 PM) *
Exactly. Totally overpowered.


No more than any mage doing the same. And I've done it before... in a high powered game.

Mage with sustaining focus - improved reflexes (with enough for 4 IPs) controlling a small army of drones ala a drone rigger.

Yerameyahu
Well, *slightly* more, because you're a small, flying target, with Concealment, and huge mental/dodge stats. smile.gif
MortVent
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 20 2010, 08:42 PM) *
Well, *slightly* more, because you're a small, flying target, with Concealment, and huge mental/dodge stats. smile.gif



Area effect weapons fix that quick

Grenades, flamethrowers, rapid fire shotguns on max spread, etc

not to mention spirits and such as well (fireball the group, get the pixie too)
Yerameyahu
Right, but I'm saying *compared to a mage*, you're the-same-but-better. smile.gif Possibly *lots* better.
toturi
Pixies have the problem of having low Bod and unable to wear significant armor without negative repercussions due to that low Bod. If you can totally avoid getting into any test that requires Body, then they can be very good. Depending on whether the GM allows Concealment from multiple sources to stack, a pixie can be no more stealthy than a mage/mystical adept of equivalent magic, perhaps less so. If the pixie doesn't improve his magic, then he has to find some way other than Concealment to overcome the penalties having an auto Distinctive Style brings. A baseline pixie is more noticeable than a normal human.
Yerameyahu
So, there's a tiny bit of balance. wink.gif
toturi
Yerameyahu, I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. Because quite literally the pixie has a tiny margin of error for survival.

From a character creation perspective, I am wary of the very low Body scores. IIRC, the hard max for a pixie is 3 and soft max 2. I wouldn't mind making a pixie character as a one-shot but to me, it isn't a viable long term character, short of soft maxing Edge and using it everytime the character gets hit/gets infected/etc. If you look solely at the advantages, it can seem that the pixie is an overpowered race for mages/mystic adepts, but all it takes is one lucky shot that connects and you are down for the count.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 20 2010, 08:59 PM) *
The problem with the, The Jopp, is that size is often part of the inherent identity of melee weapons. It's certainly part of their damage and reach stats.


Well, a +2 in reach for a pixie is *still* +2 to reach since the spear is long enough in relation to the pixie size. Sure, a pixie modified spear in the hands of a metahuman might only give a +1 reach but that is already factored into using items not designed for ones size.

SR4 is an abstract system and going into detail becomes a muddy mess. damage codes is mainly modified by a characters STR value and a Pixie is already punished by it having a base damage code of 1+weapon.

I can agree though that a Pixie with a vibro sword is rare but would be possible if rules are used for size customization (add +100Y to the cost of a weapon) as long as the weapon is reasonable.

Melee weapons can be found in all sizes amongst all metahuman races and one mans claymore can be another mans knife. A Combat Axe in the hands of a troll (STR10) 9P while a Pixie (STR2) does 5P - A very significant difference and the Troll would have to wield a basic knife just to get down to the same damage code, not factoring in reach.

The only equalizing factor are troll/pixies with monowhips as their damage is the same. grinbig.gif

Ranged weapons is another ball of wax and heavy restrictions should be made there due to inherent design, weight and the fact that bullets and magazines are usually inside the grip that arent designed for Pixies.

STR based ranged weapons like Throwing and Projectiles would be simple, only Harpoon guns and Crossbows might need some check as a heavy crossbow in the hands of a Pixie would be someone trying to wield a ballista...
Mäx
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Jul 21 2010, 10:07 AM) *
Well, a +2 in reach for a pixie is *still* +2 to reach since the spear is long enough in relation to the pixie size. Sure, a pixie modified spear in the hands of a metahuman might only give a +1 reach but that is already factored into using items not designed for ones size.

Thats not how the reach works, its not how big somethink is related to you size its how much farther it can hit the enemy compared to what distance the enemy can hit you from, thats why only you or the enemy can benefit from reach at any one time.
Wasabi
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Jul 21 2010, 04:07 AM) *
Well, a +2 in reach for a pixie is *still* +2 to reach since the spear is long enough in relation to the pixie size. Sure, a pixie modified spear in the hands of a metahuman might only give a +1 reach but that is already factored into using items not designed for ones size.


Because reach can be applied as a penalty to an opponent its a more universal measurement that applies regardless of whather its a pixie or troll.
IKerensky
Let just say that a Pixie with a Reach 2 weapon use a tactic with short attack and retreat capitalysing on his increased mobility (flight) and longer weapon to raise the same benefit than larger races. With a shorter weapon the windling have to be more personnal (for him) and thus cannot benefit fully from his mobility.
Cabral
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Jul 20 2010, 06:27 AM) *
So we look at 22D6 attack with a surprise test since we A: Fly B: Are invisible.

You forgot to add the friend in melee bonus because that works best in conjunction with a visible blade fighter; gives you a basis for maintaining surprise round-by-round too...
The Jopp
QUOTE (Cabral @ Jul 21 2010, 12:36 PM) *
You forgot to add the friend in melee bonus because that works best in conjunction with a visible blade fighter; gives you a basis for maintaining surprise round-by-round too...


I also forgot to add martial art maneuver - Full Offense.

So that's 24D6 and then we add friends in melee.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Wasabi @ Jul 21 2010, 10:58 AM) *
Because reach can be applied as a penalty to an opponent its a more universal measurement that applies regardless of whather its a pixie or troll.


Yes, a universal measurement of how hard it is to A: Reach the target wielding the spear and B: how much easier it is to attack someone.

A troll holding the windling spear would gain a +1 isntead of teh +2 since the (for the troll) small spear would give him a penalty of -1 for usign a small weapon not designed for him.

The rules works rather well when it comes to weapon size.

Monowhip on the other hand throws them out the window.
Yerameyahu
The Jopp, what I was trying to say is that a Pixie-size sword is a knife to other people. A pixie-sized bat is a rattan stick to other people. A pixie-sized knife is a nail file to other people. biggrin.gif Therefore, the sword shouldn't have sword stats, etc. It's not a question of changing the grips, it's a question of inertia, leverage, etc.

They dealt with this craziness in D&D for a while, because RPGs with characters are wildly different size are just a pain. smile.gif

I don't agree that the 'mis-handling' penalty adequate accounts for this (and don't forget the 'Dwarves can't have weapons with too much reach' rule). I'm fine with the concept of a pixie-scale spear with reach 1, because that's how *big* it is; I just think every weapon needs to be adjusted more than just slapping on Metahuman Customization (they're not even metahumans!).
Daddy's Little Ninja
In our game we sum them up in five words: Pixies, the other white meat.
Eimi
QUOTE (Gamer6432 @ Jul 20 2010, 12:53 PM) *
Actually, Pixies are shorter than young children (assuming you mean not infants). Average Pixie height is 45 cm, which is roughly 1ft 5in. I'd say anything larger than a hold out or modified light pistol is going to be too big to handle effectively, regardless of recoil factors.


Actually, that's around the average length of a healthy newborn (above average by a bit, actually).

So yeah, short of (ho ho) using some sort of extra-customized holdout pistol with a couple of shots (which would probably still take both hands), Pixies really aren't suited for normal firearms. Normal anything, really.

The size of a newborn baby. And not a tv/movie newborn, but an actual one. Tiny, tiny.
Apathy
QUOTE (toturi @ Jul 21 2010, 02:06 AM) *
I wouldn't mind making a pixie character as a one-shot but to me, it isn't a viable long term character, short of soft maxing Edge and using it everytime the character gets hit/gets infected/etc.

Speaking of infection, what happens to pixies when they get infected? Elves become Banshees, Orks become Windegos, what do Pixies become? Also, what about the Kruger strain - are there Pixie-Ghouls?
Doc Chase
Wil 'o Wisps? biggrin.gif
Draco18s
QUOTE (Apathy @ Jul 22 2010, 01:28 PM) *
Speaking of infection, what happens to pixies when they get infected? Elves become Banshees, Orks become Windegos, what do Pixies become? Also, what about the Kruger strain - are there Pixie-Ghouls?


Aren't they--like other magically-active-by-default critters*--immune?

*Drakes, shapeshifters, naga...
Badmoodguy88
Sasquatch specifically can become infected. The sapient critters in Runner's Companion, cannot be infected with HMHVV (except
for sasquatches) or become drakes. It does not specifically say a awakened critters can't become infected. But I guess most of them can't or are at least very resistant to it. I would say if there is some similar mythological creature not in the game they might be HMHVV infected creatures. But there is also corruption, metavariants, or SURGE to explain any odd creature in the game.
QUOTE
Wil 'o Wisps?

This might be actually cool. Pixies already have the ability to turn invisible.
QUOTE
here are some tales told about the will-o'-the-wisp being guardians of treasure, much like the Irish leprechaun leading those brave enough to follow them to sure riches. Other stories tell of travellers getting lost in the woodland and coming upon a will-o'-the-wisp, and depending on how they treated the will-o'-the-wisp, the spirit would either get them lost further in the woods or guide them out.

Also related, the Pixy-light from Devon and Cornwall is most often associated with the Pixie who often has "pixie-led" travelers away from the safe and reliable route, and into the bogs with glowing lights.
"Like Poltergeist they can generate uncanny sounds. They were less serious than their German Weisse Frauen kin, frequently blowing out candles on unsuspecting courting couples or producing obscene kissing sounds, which were always misinterpreted by parents." [11] Pixy-Light was also associated with "lambent light" [12] which the "Old Norse" might have seen guarding their tombs.

The essential part of the tale is that they a glow or at least have a small glowing light, and that they lead people astray. This might be a limited compulsion (follow the light) or an limited accident power, maybe limited to swamps, bogs, or just twilight and night. Or maybe just when not in bright light. Someone could whip something up. It could be a specific HMHVV strain. There are so few pixies to be a carriers of the virus that there are probably only a hand full of Wil 'o Wisps.

Also This could be a cool idea for an adventure.
QUOTE
"Danes, Finns, Swedes, Estonians, and Latvians amongst some other groups believed that a will-o'-the-wisp marked the location of a treasure deep in ground or water, which could be taken only when the fire was there. Sometimes magical tricks were required as well, to uncover the treasure. In Finland and other northern countries it was believed that early autumn was the best time to search for will-o'-the-wisps and treasures below them. It was believed that when someone hid treasure in the ground, he made the treasure available only at the midsummer, and set will-o'-the-wisp to mark the exact place and time so that he could come to take the treasure back. Finns also believed that the creature guarding the treasure used fire to clean precious metals."


Also crows and dogs might hive HMHVV like resident evil with the t-virus. GM discretion as always.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Badmoodguy88 @ Jul 22 2010, 02:03 PM) *
Crows and dogs might hive HMHVV like resident evil with the t-virus. GM discretion as always.


Or they might just be carriers and aren't effected by it themselves.
Badmoodguy88
Or can get it but not pass it on. The problem with swarms of infected crows that attack people is they would pass the disease on to a lot of people.
Sixgun_Sage
How would one suggest handling Pixies and technomancy in regards to concealment specifically?
Yerameyahu
What do you mean? The Concealment Power, which functions only in meat (and astral, for Pixies)? And they can't *be* Technomancers.
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