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Stormdrake
Was reading the rules for Ritual spellcating and I came away with a "meh" feeling. I don't really see the advantage to it. Any participent is still having to soak drain for the force of the spell cast so whats the advantage? Can some one explain what I am missing?
Lanlaorn
The advantage is you can cast at targets that you aren't anywhere near. It's a bit silly because you need an astral observer (typically a spirit) which means the area isn't warded. If it's not warded you could just tell the spirit "go and kill everyone" instead of "go and observe for us as we cast this Fireball for 7 hours" for the same real effect. It's probably cool for subtle work like mental manipulations, especially against sleeping targets, but even then how hard is it to get line of sight on your target for a fraction of a second. Plus you could always just load up a Spirit of Man with whatever subtle spell you want cast over there and send him to do it.

Ritual Spellcasting itself isn't bad, it's just the cost is way too high. Put skill points into this then spend hours and reagents when I could just send a spirit in seconds and for free? Yea, right.
Stormdrake
Was wondering about that. I am thinking the "helpers" should only have to deal with drain based off of their successes rather than the force of the spell cast.
Falanin
Actually, you can have your spotter stand outside of the warded area and look in. Mana barriers (like wards) CAN be seen through, although they impose a penalty to perception equal to the force of the barrier. (SR4a 194) Now, the Barrier WILL add it's force to the target's resistance test, so sucessfully casting through one may take a bigger ritual group than you'd need otherwise.

In addition, if you have a material link (blood or hair, for example) you can dispense with the spotter altogether.(Street Magic 28) The sympathetic linking metamagic (Street Magic 58) makes this trick even nastier.
Lanlaorn
Typically it's easier to catch a glimpse of someone than to acquire a sympathetic link, though. I just think ritual spellcasting is more a handy tool for GMs than something practical for players to use. With regards to just looking through the ward, if the ward isn't covering a proper room (i.e. with walls) then you could just get a pair of binoculars and cast the spell yourself from some vantage point.

I'm not saying ritual spellcasting is bad, mind you. It definitely has its uses it's just so much hassle (and investment into a skill) for so little gain.
Falanin
The main advantage of ritual spellcasting is that you don't actually have to BE there. Target in an AAA zone? Null sweat. Target halfway across the world? We can do that. Target guarded by 76 HMHVV infected orphans (and you just got your robes clean from the LAST time)? Sure, easy.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Lanlaorn @ Jul 21 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Typically it's easier to catch a glimpse of someone than to acquire a sympathetic link, though. I just think ritual spellcasting is more a handy tool for GMs than something practical for players to use. With regards to just looking through the ward, if the ward isn't covering a proper room (i.e. with walls) then you could just get a pair of binoculars and cast the spell yourself from some vantage point.

I'm not saying ritual spellcasting is bad, mind you. It definitely has its uses it's just so much hassle (and investment into a skill) for so little gain.


Actually, No... Sympathetic Linking Metamagic allow Symbolic Links, which are Stupid Easy (and only inflict a -6 to the spellcasting test), but may take a bit of time to create... just draw a stick figure that represents the target in your mind (Threshold is only a 4 if you have assensed the target ever, 12 if you have met, and 16 if target is an unknown)... not the greatest link, but functional nonetheless, and it is something that the caster creates... not that comes from the target... smokin.gif
Muspellsheimr
While generally not an optimal choice for player characters, Ritual Spellcasting is in fact very useful and potentially powerful for the reasons listed, and dependent on the character, can be extremely effective even for player characters.

A lesser benefit, but something that does need to be mentioned, is that it can also turn the Spellcasting test into a teamwork test. Just remember that it does not require more than one caster, but does allow it.
Neraph
I actually had a Johnson use ritual spellcasted Dream spells on the team to inform them of their missions. It was more blackmail than actual 'runs, but yeah.
Udoshi
Ritual spellcasting, as written is pretty terrible.

However, it becomes rather useful with the Sympathetic Link metamagic. With a magic of 6, a rush job, a point of edge, and someone's hair it only takes 3 hours to bust out some ritual-fu on their ass.

Additionally, as written, ritual spellcasting needs an astral spotter to guide the ritual. The reason its pretty terribad is becuase, in the time it takes to cast a ritual, a ganksquad of bound spirits does the job that much faster, and more effectively.
Neraph
IMHO, it should be in either half-hour, 10 minute, or minute increments to make it better, instead of hours.
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