So, we have helmets. Helmets are fascinatingly useful, giving anywhere between 0/+2 and +2/+2 to any suit of armor, not to mention the possibility of integrated electronics. We have this... if we're willing to be mind-numbingly obvious. Unless you're a bike messenger, riding your Harley Scorpion, or skating, you have no real reason to be wearing a helmet, and you will draw attention to yourself.

We have armored clothing, so why not an armored hat? Since there doesn't appear to BE one in either Arsenal or SR4a, what stats would you guys apply to protective headgear of the more subtle variety?

SR3 had the Victory "Industrious" Hard-Hat.
It only gave +1 Impact Armor though.

Its not really in book, but I'd imagine its plausible to have smart material hats/balacavas/etc that can be flexible one minute, and seemingly no big deal, but when activated turn into 'armored mode'.

I'm kinda thinking of building body armor like that too, smart/memory materials that seem to be just a long sleeved pullover but when triggered the covert sections align to provide a version of form fitting body armor.

Back to the hats tho, even with smart materials I'd say no better than 1/1, as you're spoofing hard materials as opposed to actually layering on something like a swat helmet.

look at the shawls for the moonsilver line. +1 impact armor, nothing else for a hat

got to consider hats are not considered corporate chic.

Our shaman used the stats for Armored Shirt to make himself a, fluff/RP-wise, bulletproof duster hat.

I'd go along the lines of +1-+2 impact for a good hat. A fedora with a hardened plastic skullcap to protect the noggin from saps wielding saps isn't outside the realms of fancy.

Fair enough, but I really want a hat for a couple of my characters...

My faceman would really go for an armored bowler or fedora to go with the berwick suit...

and the psycho gunslinger adept wants a cowboy hat to go with the boots and duster.

Looking at arsenal again, I guess I could use the PPP helmet in its "worn beneath other clothing" setting...

Heh, Mortvent... I can just see someone taking the Moonsilver shawl and wearing it like a turban.

"Sir, are you aware that your turban is paisley?"

In theory it should be easy. In the english Civil War -1640's- cavaliers had helmets built into their hats. steel caps in the crown on their hats. With that theory you could have an Indiana Jones type Stetson with the same build inside-ceramic plates inside a balistic cloth shell. The heavier build of a built up hat, like a Stetson or Homburg would have more room hide the bulk than say a balistic cloth ball cap.

I'm surprised, as well, that there are no armored hats with the (almost *too* extensive) armored clothing examples in Arsenal. I wouldn't let a non-full-face helmet give the highest protection (+2), or have nearly as much space; I would certainly allow +1 armor 'hard' hats, of the various styles already mentioned here.

would a hat made out of kevlar make any sense?

Exclusively out of kevlar? Not much, I suppose.

I forget what it was called, but there was a semi-recent development where they have been able to use cheap walmart shirts in a process to create extremely light armor after a chemical process. They have to shape it still, but it could conceivably end up as a hat.

Ah, found an article talking about the same process: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2...rbide-nanowires

I use a fedora with an orc gun magician, just putting it as an optional accessory for the Actioneer Business line.

T
Nothing says they can't fold out. One of my players has something like that he disguises as a commlink/fashion accessory. He DID pay through the nose for it. Houseruling, but it might work with yours.

I'm pretty certain there *are* hats made with kevlar.

And a lot of RL ball caps worn by Police special response teams have a semi-ridged front. I would be surprised to hear there is not something there. I had heard on TV that the idea of constructino helmets developed while bulding Hoover dam out west, that the workers started putting shelack on their ball caps to provide some protection. I do not know if that is true but it would make sense.

My husband regularly wears hats like fedoras and has often said they should be armored.

Shadowrun would make Jaeger-Monsters very sad indeed . .

The problem with a hat (or helmet) made with exclusively Kevlar is that it really needs a hardened shell to augment it or the round that strikes it is going to turn your brain to mush from the impact anyway, even if it doesn't go through.

I'd think that a helmet would go contra to the general B/I breakdown that most armor has - I.E. it would have more Impact than Ballistic to protect the sweetmeats.

Definitely, the only helmets in the game are 0/1, 0/2, 1/2, and 2/2 (for the sooper military), right? I was talking about a 'hard' hat.

Even a floppy kevlar hat could turn a cut (Phys) into a smack (Stun), however. Don't forget that Impact is blunt, edged, shrapnel…

Maybe they are just pragmatig enough to say:"we can't comfortably armor a head enough to stop a bullet. So why even bother? But on the other hand, we can make it a bit less painfull if someone hits you on the head, if you wear this noice fancy hat"

Well, that's the point, right? The OP is looking for armored clothing hats, but instead Arsenal spends 20 pages on bloody steampunk trousers.

I'm *happy* the only helmets in the game are 0/1, 0/2, etc. The +2/+2 one is bullshit.

i suspect that protection do not come from the hard shell alone, but a combo of a hard shell and the webbing inside that act as a shock absorber by allowing the helmet to move about without actually transferring much of the energy to your head. Heck, our brains probably avoid a lot of minor injuries thanks to it being suspended in liquid inside the skull, and therefor can slosh around when the skull gets impacted.

i suspect a kevlar fedora with a similar kind of webbing inside it could provide some level of protection. Not as much as a hard helmet, but more then your average fedora.

No no no. I got it.

The kevlar weave with the ballistic custard in an enclosed hard shell of plastic.

Could just give a generic +0/+2 or +1/+2 for 'helmet' and then style it into any type of hat you want. The real protection comes from the skullcap it would be assumed to be having.

A proper "armored" helmet covers the entire head in what is very obviously protection of some kind, from the top of the neck to the top of the head, and comes with a face shield; this provides armor of +2/+2.

Body armor works by taking the force of the impact, absorbing a small amount, and dispersing the rest (or trying to). Because the body is large, the armor can be relatively thin and light, as long as it is solid and reacts the correct way when struck.

Helmets, on the other hand, only have a small area to work with: the head. They deflect damage significantly more than body armors, because there's just not a whole lot of area to spread the hit out to (and because the shape of the head lends itself naturally to deflection). The actual "proper" part of a helmet sits about a quarter-inch away from the head, on a reasonably mobile suspension frame. When you get hit in the head, part of the blow is deflected by the hard round helmet shape, part is "dispersed" by the suspension into a much wider (and thus less harmful) impact area, and the rest gets through.

A hat, even an "armored" hat, is not going to have a suspension of any kind, which is by far the most effective part of a helmet's protection. It also does not cover the back of the skull, the sides of the skull, the ears, or the face, which is exposing alot.

I don't think that an armored hat of any kind would provide more than +0/+1, and even that would probably only apply to called shots.

The body is a big broad flat lump that can handle jostling, so armor just has to spread the damage out; the arms are thin and relatively fragile, but also mobile, so all armor has to do is turn "bone breaking force" into "arm moving force". Even the feet are pretty easy - just deflect into the ground.

But protecting the head is hard. It's a large, obvious, relatively inflexible lump that's just sticking out there, with lots of really important bits that shouldn't be covered up, in a rather cumbersome shape, with a really, really important and sensitive thing taking up most of the space.

A steel-plated kevlar bowler hat isn't going to do swat to a punch in the face.

Well, why not just get a Pickelhaube?

Neither is any kind of body armor

And my GM looked at me funny when I said I wanted my character to have an armored cyberskull.






-karma

Why?
That's the only real use for the cyber-skull EVER . .
And under SR3, it was much more awesome in that regard . .
Also, it made you suck at social stuff, if you went obvious.

Well, it was on a troll character, so "social" wasn't going to be a huge activity anyhow.

Also, armored headband:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-QArvptKo




-karma

Armoured Cyberskull, then wear a hat to conceal it.

Armored synthetic troll looking cyber-skull with non retractable natural looking troll-horns made of metal.
HEADBUTT OF DOOM!

You guys miss the point. Have your player trying to argue that his character's Rabbi's armor plated yamakah really does provide protection from head on bullets.

Well, i have seen some hairdo's that could have stopped a small caliber bullet i guess . .

I keep seeing a skullcap with a bunch of that ballistic custard in it that bleeds off the kinetic energy from a wound by making mohawk spikes. Pink mohawk spikes.

There are no hit locations. There's no reason a properly engineered hat couldn't give +1 or +2 Impact; enough coverage could *maybe* even give the +1/+2 helmet rating. No, it's not going to be as good as a helmet with none of the bulk. Yes, it's going to do *something*, especially in 2070.

After all, in 2070, your skin can be armor.

In 2070, your skin SHOULD be armour!

Good point, why even BOTHER with such a hat, if you can make ALL OF YOUR BODY tougher than the toughest helmet?

Stacking! Hehe, oh jesus.

"My skin is strong as plasteel, but I like to wear a bit of Kevlar over it still... Kevlar is my safety blanket."

If it was me behind the BBS, I'd say an armored hat that actually looked like a stylish hat could be either +1/+0 or +0/+1.

2¥

De hot iz about style, not function!

Shadowrun iz about sottle, and bad plens. Unt sandviches!

Man, if only Jägers were in SR.

Who says they can't be? Surely someone can homebrew a balanced Jaegermonster.


(And, this, I really want to see.)

The Double-Posting Gremlin strikes again!

They'd be totally unfair. Cuz they're awesome.

And very Pink Mohawk.

I think that 'blanced' and 'Jaegermonster' are mutually exclusive terms.

Although, I imagine they wouldn't be too different from humans with troll stats.

Pretty special fluff. They're creations.