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Runs-with-Scissors
Just going over some background character info a player sent me, and he mentions doing some UCAS army work in the Golan Heights. That has started me thinking (something I generally avoid): What has happened in the Middle East as far as the Shadowrun timeline goes? I don't have all the books, and looking through SR3 it doesn't indicate anything about it. Is there any canon information about what has happened in the Middle East? If so, can someone point me in the right direction? If not...has it ever come up in your games?

Also, same background info goes into some time spent with the UCAS army. I know there is a little bit in SR3, but does anyone have any more info on it? I assume (feel free to start those flamethrowers) that it basically follows along the same lines as the current US Army as far as rank structure and duty goes. I remember seeing in the Street Samurai guide a few years ago (before I actively played the game) that X weapon was the issued weapon for UCAS forces, etc. etc. Anyone have any in depth info that you've come up with? Anything you could provide would be great!

R-W-S

(I try to stick as close to a canon game as possible, as I'm a brand new GM and have never played SR before, just FYI)
Entropy Kid
Try the Dumpshock timeline explorer. It doesn't always work the first time, but keep entering different searches: Army, Middle East, Israel, Arabia, etc. etc. anything you can think of.
Siege
Insofar as I know, there isn't a canon breakdown on UCAS military issue, although there are plenty of threads on the subject.

The Street Sam catalog mentions two ARs: the G12A3z and the Colt M22A2 as "contenders in the current UCAS Squad Rifle Trials."

Which implies they aren't standard issue yet.

The Steyr Aug receives note as being the official weapon of the CAS.

The BBB only mentions three assault rifles, neither in conjunction with the UCAS. So, unless the UCAS phased out assault rifles until the Street Samurai catalog -- you might as well just pick something and run with it.

If you want to parallel the modern US army, the Colt M23 is basically an M-16 for all practical purposes.

-Siege
Siege
Don't forget to decide how common cyberware is among officers and rank-and-file and whether or not soldiers mustering out are allowed to keep it.

-Siege
TheOneRonin
I'll start this off by saying this mostly my opinions, tempered by what little game info is out there on the subject.

I see the military machine of the UCAS (and CAS as well) being a very different entity (in regards to policy) in SR than it is today. During the balkanization of the old USA, I see the country as adopting a stance similar to pre-WWI isolationism. Sort of like that "We take care of our own," mentality. I would imagine this would include pulling out/closing down most foreign military posts. Instead of the big fish in the small pond, we become just another one of the small fish.

Now, while this applies to the Military-at-large, I would tend to think that Special Operations would still conduct missions in foreign countries. I just doubt that the UCAS/CAS would even be allowed to have any sizable armed force camped in a foreign country, friendly or not.

Does anyone have SoNA handy? I think it gives some basic population numbers for the UCAS/CAS. You can start with that. Consider the size of our current military and compare that to our population of 260+ million. Then look at the UCAS/CAS populations, and make a guess from there. Those two countries would be me MUCH more concerned about border protection/defense than foreign military aid.

And for the CAS in particular, I think they would have a large force concentration along the the CAS/Aztlan border. I think it's also mentioned somewhere that they have a sort of "brown-water Navy" that operates mostly in the Gulf of Mexico and along the Mississippi/coastal waterways. There's nothing about it having bases overseas.

Again, this is my view, and not necessarily canon. YMMV.
toturi
SONA p166 UCAS Timeline

2034:... At this point, the UCAS no longer has troops stationed outside of its borders.

No mention of the UCAS military proper in SONA but I think you can extrapolate from New Seattle(I think there is an entry about the military there).
Nath
For a population of 106 millions, CAS have six Army divisions and two Marines expeditionnary forces. That's about one third of the US military force for one third of the population. Thinking along the same lines, UCAS would have about half the military strength of US, for a population of 172 millions. However I'm tempted to say that UCAS and CAS did not get an equal share of everything: the Southern states that make the CAS provides the US armed forces half their manpower while being a third of the US population. Plus, Aztlan is a much more frigtening neighbour than Sioux are. But I'm not factoring the Canadian in the equation (yeah, they would bring decent snipers wink.gif ). So I can imagine the UCAS having armed forces in the same range than the CAS, a bit smaller for ground forces considering that the "blue-water" UCAS Navy would suck more money than its "brown-water" CAS counterpart who barely leave the Gulf.

BTW, I think Fields of Fire said the Colt Cobra was the UCAS Army standard SMG.

Concerning Middle East... I can confirm it is still there, where it used to be nyahnyah.gif Israel survived, though Lybian chemicals weapons contaminated a part of its territory (and got nuke in return). An alliance of Mid-Eastern countries invaded souther Europe during the thirties, I guess first to "free" muslims people in the Balkans. The Arabian Peninsula unified into a single country (Arabia). Saeder-Krupp pulls a lot of political strings in the area and rules the oil industry (rule, not control). Tehran got swapped by Great Dragon Aden during what he would call a calm discussion about minority integration. Egypt claims former Lybian territory. Kurds still fight for autonomy (from which country, I don't know). There's no big changes out of that, once you made the count of which governments are currently at ease with their fundamentalists. There's a figure called Badr al Din Ibn Eisa who lead the discussion. Previously a moderate and wise councellor-type, he got shot in Mecca and came back from the dead with a sligthly different message, now calling for a Jihad. Pakistan, Egypt and Turkey governments ain't happy about that and feel threatened (Israel too, but, hey... Israel always feel threatened, with a reason nonetheless). Much of those info comes from Year of the Comet, Dragons of the Sixth World and Target: Wastelands (add [/i]Threats 2[/i] concerning Israel, but only in passing mentions).
Siege
QUOTE (Nath)

BTW, I think Fields of Fire said the Colt Cobra was the UCAS Army standard SMG.

The Shadowtalk blurb from Snail reads: "I hear the UCAS Army is gonna pick these up."

I double-checked Cannon Companion and Fields of Fire -- there isn't a canon reference to a standard small arm for the UCAS forces.

-Siege
252
The UCAS Navy Seals use the colt m24a3 water carbine.

"The Colt M24A3 is a special design originally commissioned by the UCAS Navy SEALs." pg 171 Cyberpirates.

I know you wanted to know about what the Army was. However this kinda shows the use of Colt by the military, so I would guess all of the branches would use the same brand. However, there is nothing really much said. I think they give much more info on CAS items.
FlakJacket
Iran is still an Islamic theocracy along todays lines with some bloke called Ayatollah Abdallah in charge. As Nath already said, Tehran got squashed by Aden after the then Ayatollah called for a Jihad against the awakened. The place has been deserted for the last 40 years or so and now houses a range of shedim, ghouls, whacko's, people too stubborn to leave, criminals, smugglers and people trying to reclaim the city piece by piece. Survival of the Fittest has an adventure based in Tehran which introduces you to a couple local NPC's.

There's also something going on out in the middle of the Lout desert. An Islamic terrorist group called the Black Scorpions have a couple underground bases out in the middle of the place. No-one really knows anything about the group or their objectives which makes some people nervous.

Since I don't think it's mentioned, I wouldn't expect Iran to be part of the Eurowars push into Europe or be a big fan of Badr al Din Ibn Eisa and his IUM since he's based out of Arabia and friend of the Sunni Caliph whilst they're Shi'ite. After the whole Tehran/Aden thing they're probably even more anti-meta/awakened but keep their views nice and quiet.

Target: Awakened Lands mentions that along the Nile valley there's been an upswing in magical incidents. An upswing in spirit activity and the apparence of ancient structures in the astral plane like how they would have looked thousands of years ago. This lead to an upswing in the older pre-Islam religions which the local mullahs didn't like.

Most of the information for the Middle East is in; Target: Wastelands, State of the Art 2063, Target: Awakened Lands, Survival of the Fittest, Sprawl Survival Guide, Year of the Comet, a couple brief mentions in Threats 2 and Dragons of the Sixth World.

Edit: You know, this reminds me. What with the great resource of The Sixth World being a bit out of date now due to Lester getting hitched, perhaps we should do something like marshal the new information here? Not like we don't have a shortage of almost obsessive and knowledgeable fans or anything. wink.gif
Kanada Ten
All Islamic nations were part of the Alliance for Allah (Damascus League) during the Eruowar of 34, IIRC, judging by the map I once saw in the First Edition book under the Matrix section (before SR canon broke and destroyed the League).
FlakJacket
Really? I'd find that surprising. But then this is from a game with magic and the NAN so a little suspension of disbelief is needed. smile.gif
Kanada Ten
First edition was much more parody than subsequent editions. Each influx of cyberpunk players caused an injection of serious grit. Remember that all racial and ethnic prejudices were washed away by the Awakening. And if anything could bind the Islamic states of today, it would be the Awakening. The break up of the Alliance is covered in Dragons. It was a tenuous arrangement at best.
FlakJacket
Ah well, I only came in during 2nd Ed so I'll take your word for it.
Kanada Ten
Judging by my past reliability, don't.
Omer Joel
I have an incomplete list of SR Middle-East relevant cannon references (incomplete since I don't have Threats 2 or Dragons of the 6th World and since I've got Target: Wastelands from a friend only last weekend) on my home computer (I'll be there on Friday, so I could e-mail it, and several other Israel and ME relevant drafts to whoever wants them). So for now I'll post what I remember:

The SR2 main rulebook (Hebrew edition, atleast, never saw the English one) refers to the West Bank as a "Demilitarized Zone". I've figured that the Golan Heights could be demilitarized as well - but if any foriegn military is stationed there, it should be the UN or a corp equivalent. UCAS is too isolationist to get into the ME deep drek.

Cybertechnology (Or was that Shadowtech?), in a discussion of shadow (or was that beta/delta?) clinincs, lists Tel Aviv as one of the places where you could find one.

Several old sourcebooks (Londo and Tir Na Nog) list Jerusalem as a destination you could get to from that location's airports. Since Jerusalem doesn't have a large international airport IRL (Tel Aviv has), something must have happened to the old Ben Gurion airport - such as Lybian chemicals contaminating the place.

Corporate Download talks about S-K's ME involvment in Corporate Download - including relations with several local terrorist groups.

Target: Wastelands talks aboyt a "United Arab kingdom", ruled by a Caliph (undser the guidance of Ibn Isa), without mentioning it's exact borders.

Target: Awakened Lands mentions Egypt very briefly, and talks about tention between New Islamic Jyhad (NIJ) supporters and followers of the old (Heka) ways.

Virtual Realities 2.0 mentions Israel as one of the nations that ban PLTGs.

Year of the Comet talks about Ibn Isa and the New Islamic Jyhad. Ibn Isa was assasinated (possibly by the Mossad) and "returned to life" later on to declare Jyhad. This got several countries - especially Israel and Egypt - worried about that. Also, I remember something about Ibn Isa taking ovcer the whole of Lebanon. A new Hizballa, anybody? wonder what will be israel's response, which, under certain conditions, would be a declaration oif war.

Btw, where did you find mention of the 2034 EuroWar 2 (New Ottoman Jyhad) aside from T:W? I heard of it only on the forum (before getting T:W, that is smile.gif) and used it as part of my Israel background/timeline (half complete now, this time in English) - I had Israel being attacked in 2034 as a "side venture" of the Jyhad, and got severely damaged before repelling the invasion.

Also, where did they mention the long-term contamination oif the Lybian chemicals?
Siege
QUOTE (252)
The UCAS Navy Seals use the colt m24a3 water carbine.

"The Colt M24A3 is a special design originally commissioned by the UCAS Navy SEALs." pg 171 Cyberpirates.

I know you wanted to know about what the Army was. However this kinda shows the use of Colt by the military, so I would guess all of the branches would use the same brand. However, there is nothing really much said. I think they give much more info on CAS items.

Figures, that's the book I don't have. grinbig.gif

I knew as soon as I made a blanket statement, someone would be kind enough to prove me wrong.

-Siege
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
Btw, where did you find mention of the 2034 EuroWar 2 (New Ottoman Jyhad) aside from T:W?

Germany Sourcebook, Dragons of the Sixth World (Aden), and somewhere else -I'll see if I can dig it up.
MYST1C
QUOTE (Siege)
The Street Sam catalog mentions two ARs: the G12A3z and the Colt M22A2 as "contenders in the current UCAS Squad Rifle Trials."
Which implies they aren't standard issue yet.


But the SSC was 2053 - 10 years ago!

I've alway assumed the UCAS military uses the M22A2 and M23.
The Special Forces Trooper on p.88, Cybertechnology, has an Ares Alpha - but I don't think that's the standard weapon of the whole army. Not every soldiers has a smartgun implant or needs a grenade launcher.
Austere Emancipator
A lot of discussion on the equipment and rank structure of the UCAS military can be found here.
Some more rambling about standard issue weaponry in the armies of the 6th world here.
Siege
QUOTE (M$T1C)
QUOTE (Siege)
The Street Sam catalog mentions two ARs: the G12A3z and the Colt M22A2 as "contenders in the current UCAS Squad Rifle Trials."
Which implies they aren't standard issue yet.


But the SSC was 2053 - 10 years ago!

I've alway assumed the UCAS military uses the M22A2 and M23.
The Special Forces Trooper on p.88, Cybertechnology, has an Ares Alpha - but I don't think that's the standard weapon of the whole army. Not every soldiers has a smartgun implant or needs a grenade launcher.

My point being -- at the time of the SSC printing, no assault rifle was listed as UCAS standard. And there wasn't a rifle listed that seemed likely as being adopted as a replacement until the SSC entry. Unless the UCAS used the AK-97 or 98, or possibly the FHAR.

Now, you can assume the M22A2 and M23 are standard issue -- although there isn't a canon reference for that. In fact I suggested that as his best bet, since it was probably as close to canon as he was going to get.

After the SSC, neither FoF or CC listed either or indeed any weapon as being UCAS standard.

I can't think of a module that lists an encounter with the UCAS army -- that would be a better rule of thumb than the rambling speculation as pointed out by Aus.

-Siege
TheOneRonin
Somebody check RA:S. I think they have stats on the UCAS Army soldiers that quarantined the Arc. Maybe Brainscan might have that info too. I don't have my books here at work.
Siege
QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ Mar 2 2004, 06:28 PM)
Somebody check RA:S.  I think they have stats on the UCAS Army soldiers that quarantined the Arc.  Maybe Brainscan might have that info too.  I don't have my books here at work.

Interesting.

Lists discussing Canon SR military

-Siege

Edit: And I find books I didn't know I had. Wheee.

Edit: While skimming "King of the Mountain: Missions" which has the most UCAS Army references I've seen yet, most if not all of the Army's gear revolves around the Colt product line. Manhunters, Cobras, M22A2s and 23s.

And Erk? Oh my freaking religious deity, erk?
Runs-with-Scissors
Interesting. I don't have many of the new books yet, so thanks all for the info. Just trying to get the characters BG hashed out....UCAS in Israel? Not likely (not at least in the groundpounder mode). Again, thanks all for the information!

R-W-S
FlakJacket
With SK having its claws into so much of the place, I could see Ares using the US/UCAS' longstanding relationship with Israel to get themselves a beachhead into the region. With Ares being 'King of Things That Go Boom™', I don't see Israel turning them away with their current situation. Maybe the PC was part of an Israeli/UCAS military exchange program? IIRC the UCAS has lost a lot of their desert training bases so they could rotate people through Israel that then come back and spread the knowledge as it were. For that though he'd probably need the Survival and Instruction skills though.
Utahraptor
I don't think the UCAS Army would have anyone in the middle east. Maybe some advisiors or spec ops teams in Israel or Iraq.

As for the UCAS Military, My personal opinions are that, according to most canon, the Rifle is the M22, though I think it's replacment to a tricked out G38 might be consider, like today's coming switch between M16's and M4's to the M8. The pistol would probably be Browning Max Powers, for their punch and simplicity, as well as the low cost. Spec Ops would use the Manslaughter with modifications.

On Cyberware, I have rather rabid view on what the UCAS Military would install. My belief? A Datajack. One, run of the mill, alpha grade datajack. There alyways avalible, pretty cheap, could be installed at MEPS, and the advantages of DNIing everything from comgear to cooking equipment is too tempting to bypass. I say Alpha Grade because I'm guessing the military would have access to the good stuff.

For other Cyberware, I would say the funding would come out of the soldiers on pocket, with exceptions. Now, it is benefical for the Army to have a soldier with a Smartlink instaled, or a battletac cyberlink, or an Image link. That's less gear needed to be issued/lost/'misplaced'. So I think the Military would offer a Cybereware Incentive Program, or CEP, that basically helps a soldier pay for certain peices of cyberware, and even have installed at Military Hospitals on a Space-A basis. Riggers for the Military would most likely get VCR's at the military's expense, with a contract stating that either a), they stay in the Military for 20 years, or b) once they leave, they can be called back in at anytime. VCR's would not be given to all vechicle operators, either. Remember, you can run a RC net with a RC deck and a datajack. VCR's would be given to Ship Weapon's specialist, pilots of all types, and Sec specialists at high end facilities. I don't see the military going above a rating 2.

I have an interesting piece of equipment I though up, called the EES, but I'm out of time, and will edit this pose later. Messege me if you /really/ want to know. smile.gif

And remeber, if your in CA,


VOTE!!!!!!!!!
toturi
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
I see the military machine of the UCAS (and CAS as well) being a very different entity (in regards to policy) in SR than it is today. During the balkanization of the old USA, I see the country as adopting a stance similar to pre-WWI isolationism. Sort of like that "We take care of our own," mentality. I would imagine this would include pulling out/closing down most foreign military posts. Instead of the big fish in the small pond, we become just another one of the small fish.

Well, you people have been looking in the wrong places. The size of the UCAS military isn't in CC or M&M or even SONA but I found the size of the UCAS Army(ok, it's not the whole military) in New Seattle.

By Canon, there are 5 Army Divisions. So multiply the number of people in 1 division by 5 and you'll get the size of the UCAS Army.
Siege
Standing infantry, sure.

What about the rest of it? Improved training standards? Still using the US Army infantry standard? Cyber?

Hell, are we including logistics?

-Siege
toturi
It would depend on operational doctrine, I suppose. If the loggies are organic to the division, then no problem. I think for logistics, they'll contract out to private contracters though.
Siege
QUOTE (toturi)
It would depend on operational doctrine, I suppose. If the loggies are organic to the division, then no problem. I think for logistics, they'll contract out to private contracters though.

Oh gawd, that would just absolutely bite.

-Siege
toturi
It is cheaper to contract the major log work to private companies, look at Iraq.
Siege
QUOTE (toturi)
It is cheaper to contract the major log work to private companies, look at Iraq.

Case in point.

-Siege
Kagetenshi
There goes the budget...

~J
Austere Emancipator
So does KBR still exist in the SR 60s, or did it go under in the early 21st century because it overcharged everybody?
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