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Stormdrake
For another project I was reading over the rules on Ritual Spellcasting and they seem to have done away with Ritual components. They still talk about them in the fluff but their use in ritual spellcasting seems to have been deleted. Do they add it back in a different book or is it just gone?
Neraph
IIRC they have been removed. I think even in the errata they remove the listings for Ritual Components (there used to be prices for them).
Stormdrake
That is what I thought but was hoping I was wrong. Will have to add them back in for my game as the threat of a Mr. Johnson or a mark using a ritual component found at the scene of a run to retaliate or track them down kept my players on their toes.

Seriously, why would you remove that from the game as it makes ritual spellcasting rather pointless? As they are written now the rules for Ritual Spellcasting are weak. You have to know where the target is? The point of ritual spellcasting was that you could get the mark without having to know where they were before hand.
Karoline
QUOTE (Stormdrake @ Jul 26 2010, 01:48 PM) *
That is what I thought but was hoping I was wrong. Will have to add them back in for my game as the threat of a Mr. Johnson or a mark using a ritual component found at the scene of a run to retaliate or track them down kept my players on their toes.

Seriously, why would you remove that from the game as it makes ritual spellcasting rather pointless? As they are written now the rules for Ritual Spellcasting are weak. You have to know where the target is? The point of ritual spellcasting was that you could get the mark without having to know where they were before hand.


Woah, no, links are still required. You need some of their hair or a treasured object or something similar to target someone. What Neraph meant is that there isn't any sort of extra hocus pocus material required to ritual spellcast. Yeah, you still totally need a link to the target (which is followed by a mage or spirit to the target to act as the spotter for the ritual spell)
Stormdrake
Will have to go back and read the rules again but I don't remember them talking about links being formed from an item which is why I was asking if they had done away with it.

In any case they seem to be adding another step when compared to 2nd/3rd edition. I may be wrong but we never needed a "spotter", if you had a bit of blood or something to create the link you could drop stuff on the target and that was that. If you did not then you could use a "spotter" to focus and target the spell. Granted I played with a GM who hand waved things alot back then.
Karoline
QUOTE
Ritual spells can be used on any target, whether within visual
range or not. If the target is not in sight, the spellcaster or
group needs someone who can see the target for them, generally
referred to as a spotter. Th e individual acting as the spotter must
be a member of the group casting the ritual—or a spirit bound
to a member of that group—and must be able to astrally perceive
the target.


QUOTE
During ritual spellcasting (p. 174, SR4), instead
of using an astral spotter, the ritual team may
opt to use a material link to target the spell. This is
particularly useful when sending a spotter may be
impossible or impractical

Stormdrake
Where is the 2nd quote from? It does not appear in the ritual spellcasting description in the latest 4ed release. It is what I remember but am trying to find it in 4th ediotion.
Thanks
Dreadlord
QUOTE (Stormdrake @ Jul 26 2010, 01:36 PM) *
Where is the 2nd quote from? It does not appear in the ritual spellcasting description in the latest 4ed release. It is what I remember but am trying to find it in 4th ediotion.
Thanks


She quoted Street Magic, page 28, Advanced Magic Rules, Material Links.

Edit: Also note the last paragraph of that section. Ritual groups can use BOTH material links and spotters, with the material link eventually providing the location for the spotter.
Karoline
QUOTE (Dreadlord @ Jul 26 2010, 02:47 PM) *
She quoted Street Magic, page 28, Advanced Magic Rules, Material Links.

Yep, have to look in street magic to find material links for some reason, which is weird because from what I've heard, it's been a part of ritual casting since the start.
jakephillips
Isn't using material links or sympathetic magic now a metamagic for initates? So normal mages need a spotter but adepts with sympathetic magic can target using a material link.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (jakephillips @ Jul 26 2010, 07:51 PM) *
Isn't using material links or sympathetic magic now a metamagic for initates? So normal mages need a spotter but adepts with sympathetic magic can target using a material link.


Sympathetic Links are a Metamagic, which is not the same as the use of normal physical links. The Metamagic Ability can be found on Page 58 of Strreet Magic. And Sympathetic Links are described on Page 28 of the same book. Sympathetic Links also include such things as Symbolic links (such as the traditional Voodoo Doll) wobble.gif
Trevalier
QUOTE (jakephillips @ Jul 26 2010, 08:51 PM) *
Isn't using material links or sympathetic magic now a metamagic for initates? So normal mages need a spotter but adepts with sympathetic magic can target using a material link.

Material links don't require metamagic. Material links are stuff that was an integral part of the target--blood, hair, fingernails from a person, a brick from a building, things like that.

Sympathetic links require the Sympathetic Linking metamagic. Sympathetic links are things that were never part of the target, but have enough association to have picked up traces of the target's aura--things the target has worn, carried frequently, has an emotional attachment to, or has handled very recently can be used as sympathetic links. The examples in Street Magic are a wedding ring, the target's Predator, and a burger wrapper the target tossed in the trash five minutes ago. The degree of the association determines the dice pool modifier applied to the ritual for using a sympathetic link. (They're less effective than material links.)

If the casters can't even get a sympathetic link, an initiate with Sympathetic Linking can also use a symbolic link. A symbolic link is an item created in the image of the target--a picture, sculpture, or doll. The classic example is a voodoo doll. Symbolic links are only as good as the worst sympathetic link--a voodoo doll and that burger wrapper would each apply a -6 modifier to the dice pool.

Links are discussed in detail on pages 28-29 of Street Magic, which Karoline quoted, but I play a voodoo priestess and couldn't resist yammering about the topic. smile.gif
Stormdrake
So sanitize everything and where a mask on runs so they can’t get a picture of you. They will still be able to get you with symbolic magic but the rest of the party will enjoy your tinfoil hat attitude, lol.
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