Greetings chummers,

I need some help deciding on which way to run a new campaign I'm starting with some friends. I've GM'ed and playing 2nd ed, but missed out on 3rd and 4th due to relocation and not having anyone to play with. Now that 4.5 (4ed Rev 2? 4a?) is out, and I have some friends interested in playing, I'm taking up the GM mantle again. However, I don't have any experience with anything other than 2nd ed.

The group I'm playing with only has 1 player with any SR experience, and he's willing to try anything I want to do. The others have never touched SR, and only a couple of heard of it (5 person group), so they don't know any better.

I'm thinking of a couple different things....either jump into 4th ed wholesale, and try to learn all the new stuff as I can; run the 4e ruleset (since I do like that...haven't cover-to-covered the rulebook yet, but what I've skimmed looks really good) within the 2nd ed timeframe and metaplot; or just say frak it and run 2nd ed.

Anyone out there with any advice on which option might be better? I know this is all subjective, but I figure this would be the best place to discuss.

Cheers,
CypherDragon

As to the use of 4th ed--I'd say go for it. It will be easy to learn for the newer players than 2nd ed (IMHO). If you want you can use the 2050's fluff too that is your choice, though hacking is alot different (aka wireless) than in the previous editions.

I understand your dilema; I like much of the stuff that was happening in the 2nd edition time-frame (it is all history now), but much prefer the 4th edition rules and can see using the current rules with the earlier setting (with some modification, of course). But, only with new players because those that alredy know the meta-plots would not have as much fun, I think.

What I think you should do is plan on using the 4th edition (did I mention that I think they are better rules...) in the 4th edition setting by getting the Sixth World Almanac (only on pdf right now) and reading the heck out of it - after reading the beginning section of the 4th edition rulebook (20th anniversary edition - what they are calling 4a). Also, have your players read that section of the 4a book, several times to make some of the things stick. (My current group keeps on forgetting what they can do with the all the wireless stuff.) As they (your players) have knowledge of 2nd edition and the meta-plots there, that can be taken into consideration when they make their characters. Like, they can be their own children.....

Just my take on it.

http://www.shadowrun4.com/quickstart/

Not complete 4th edition, but a good starter... This is how I got into shadowrun, was interested because some friends were talking about it, went to the site and downloaded this and eventually bought the book.

It depends on the kind of effort you and your players want to put out. 4th edition tech is really a bit of a retcon as to how things are developing, (as opposed to how they were envisioned in '89,) but there's no reason to stick with the 4th edition date.

I'd take a new, unfamiliar group through the paces and take them through the plot and action. Give them a few months of downtime between each run, (ostensibly to lay low,) and let them know how things are developing in the world. It'll make the setting more real to them.

Also, hold off on the Matrix craziness for a bit, unless someone is really all about it. Despite the advert, 'Trix ain't for kids.

So, I guess my advice is, Run 4th rules, they're good. Ration the setting and the more complex stuff.
Maybe start with a Street Level game running gang stuff. Limit availability, which limits complexity, and lower starting BP/karma a bit so that they're not too crazy-powerful and magicked up.

I'd run in the setting your familiar with so your passion for it can excite your players.
Run a lower powered game at least at first. Submachineguns and moderate defenses. Then they can appreciate the bigger stuff later as the improve it.
Have an NPC hacker tag along and help them with electronic locks and cameras. The wireless in SR4 is pervasive so let them get used to watching a hacker work and if they want to be a hacker let them if they want to but have the npc present so they dont NEED to.

Avoid technomancers until the player has played a hacker. They are very very specialized and in many ways weak without good technique. If the player doesnt have technique they're better off learning hacking with a hacker then graduating to a TM later if thats all they want to do.

@Warlordtheft

Other than the wireless (and technomancers) is the core of hacking still the same? I've heard that they also substantially changed how the Matrix works; no longer based on player stats, but entirely on the software rating that's running...going to be sitting down with the book this weekend, but that would be a big disappointment (and probably the first house rule) if so...

@Rand

Really, only 1 player out of 5 has any in-depth SR knowledge. A couple know about it, but haven't ever played so they wouldn't know we're re-enacting history. Or I could do a little hand-waving and claim that their timetravelers (as a last resort... temporal mechanics makes my head hurt). If I do end up running a 2050's game, would the Sixth World Almanac give enough info to limit what's flat-out unavailable since it hasn't been produced yet? I'm thinking of grabbing that anyway, but this would definitely put it higher on the priority list. What kind of modifications do you see that the 2e setting needs to mesh well with 4a ruleset?

@Mr. Mage

Thanks for the link, I'll probably send that to a few of my players. I personally already have the 4a rulebook.

@Saint Sithney

I'm willing to put out as much effort as needed to make sure my players have fun I usually run new games exactly like you're suggesting...start out small and slow so everyone gets used to the system, and then they can work towards the expensive, shiny stuff...so long as they remember that anything they have access to, so do their enemies. I usually play out at least a month of downtime between runs - even the best-known runners need time to fence the loot from the last job, and find new contracts...not to mention enjoying some of that hard-earned nuyen. Do you have any suggestions for a happy point for starting availability and BP/Karma? Also - how's the magic system; has it changed much from 2e? I know we used to seriously discourage full mages when I was running games, simply because it was so easy to munchkin them out. Don't even get me started on PhysAdepts >.<

@Wasabi
NPC hacker...that's actually an idea I never thought of before (we always had someone wanting to play the hot elven decker), thanks I'm meeting with the group next week to get char concepts and start working on backstory/first meetup/meat'n'potatoes so I'll have a better idea of what everyone wants to play then. I also like the idea of having no technomancers at the start...playing out the char's "awakening" (correct term?) to technomancer sounds like a good tangent from the main storyline, so again thanks for the idea

My thought right now is to limit it to only the 4a rulebook (so no RC, Unwired, etc) for at least the first couple of months...my GMing's a bit rusty and I'd really like to avoid my players throwing anything too wobbly my way, and vice-versa. We may start adding in advanced stuff after that. The campaign I'm brewing up in my head is starting to look a bit like an actual storyline rather than just a mish-mash, so be expecting quite a bit more questions/weird ideas from me. Finally came up with the campaign name as well: "The Pawns of Celedyr" (this should work for either a 2050's or 2070's campaign)

If you're not going to use Unwired, I highly recommend not letting anyone play a hacker at first. (By Hacker we mean: Decker, Spyder, Rigger)

Why's that? I know at least 1 of my players (the experienced one) has claimed some interest in playing a drone rigger. What would Unwired add or restrict from the core ruleset?

No, it has been simplified to the point (basically it is an opposed check or threshold for most things). They do use Skill + Program rating for it, though unwired has an option of Skill + Atrribute (limit rating of the program). At first I didn't like the orginal and use the latter, but as time went on I had to switch over as Technomancers can abuse that royally and programs like stealth (when threaded) make hacking a little to easy. I would suggest reading the rules twice, and you and the other player go have fun running the mechanics in various scenarios (Hack on the fly, hack the johnson, hack the slow way, hack the drone, etc, etc).

I'd allow spells and programs from Unwired and Street Magic but I wouldn't allow MECHANICS from the supplements until you're more familiar with SR4A. The programs in Unwired aren't all that gamebreaking (Nuke borders on it though) but the Program Options reaaaally change things. They allow you as a GM to really give a hacker or TM a run for their money. A rating 6 Unrestricted agent with Cascading-3 and Expert Offense and an Area6, Psychotroping Targeting Blackhammer will give any runner the willies.

But back to topic, the program options and things like botnets, slaving, and clustering are great but can wait. I'd use the programs now. In Street Magic I'd suggest starting with those spells, adept powers, and metamagic techniques.

If the players are learning too quickly use the Training Times rules as written... it will slow down how fast they can spend their karma especially if they have a low Intuition or dont pay for professional instruction. (securing shadowrunner training could be its own campaign!)

I'm actually in the same boat you are, though I did play 3rd Ed. I actually prefer that system, but 4a is much closer to the nWoD that most of my players play so I'm going with that.

I'm setting the game in late 2050 to start because I've got exactly one player who knows about the Shadowrun setting and I want to have fun with the setting. So yes, Universal Brotherhood, the horrors, Bug City, the election, and all of that funness.

I've got a pretty good knowledge of when books came out and what stuff was in each one, so I'm able to retcon a lot more easily. Hacking is going to be easy because they're hiring an NPC to do that for them. Basically, I'm retconning the computer tech to fit with the 4a rules - "Personal Secretary" in my game is the Japanacorp nickname for a commlink used by sararimen which has trickled down. Most companies keep two networks, one wifi for normal use and one hardwired (thus forcing any future PC hackers to have to go in and physically plug in like the old days). No Changelings or Drakes until after we get to the YotC story, otaku are run just like technomancers. Some gear isn't available because it just doesn't exist yet outside of high-security R&D labs (any bioware not in Shadowtech, Move By Wire, most of the nanotech and genetech).

Other than those few things, the way magic, combat, etc. works hasn't changed enough to break the setting.

BTW, since I have someone in the know who will know about the Universal Brotherhood/Insect Spirit connection, I'm going to have him play an infected flesh-form perfect merge street samurai for a few sessions before betraying the group when they find out about UB's "hatchery" and letting him take over his real character. Going to be lots of fun.

If you have someone that is interested in running a rigger then 2e is not the best choice. It works, but apparently not as well as 4e.

Personally I know 2e inside and out so it is much faster a game for us to run 2e because I can pretty much calculate everything in my head from memory.
I have a player that is lightning fast on rule look ups if I am a little foggy on something. If you do want to get your feet wet in 2e again, I have a group that plays online, and we are looking for either another night of playing.

Personally I think most of the atmosphere and genre of shadowrun is controlled by the GM. People that started in 3e/4e tend to miss out on much of the corporation/japanese richness because of the material that was produced. Metaplot shifted from power being exerted by corporations to Dragon/AI demi-gods forcing their agenda. Less corporate war/espionage and more politics and PR. With everything wireless hacking other people's comms/gear tends to be more pervasive.

I'm personally a fan of the new rules; I think they simplified enough that it's easier to use for new players, and as an old-hand SR GM you're likely to pick them up right quick.

As far as the canon goes, though, I mean, it sounds like these players are almost all new, so why worry about it? Mix and match any plotline you want from anything or make things up whole-cloth. If you like Bug City, run Bug City and to hell if Bug City didn't originally involve bioware and technomancers, it does now. If you want Ibn Eisa and the shedim to be fresh and new, is wireless Internet really going to spoil that plotline? I don't think running older setting stuff or a combination of it with newer plots is going to be a problem on 4e rules.

Or just do some storyline that doesn't interact with global metaplot all that much, maybe by setting it somewhere that the canon doesn't have a lot of material. If you're running in Dubai, you don't have to worry so much about what Brackhaven is up to and whether Lonestar or KE has the police contract. Just take the description in the setting book and slap a date on it.

Physads are pretty much under control. Without Street Magic, and some of the optional rules within, they're even kind of lame. Full mages are now stupidly powerful. No longer do they have to buy spells at certain power levels. They just learn the spell, cheaply, and then can cast at [Force=Magic], or overcast at [Force = 2xMagic]. Mages are basically the only archetype where the Core rules are enough to make them uber. All of the other books, from Arsenal to Unwired, just help other archetypes to catch up with Mages a little.

As to what availability level you want to start at: Barrens gang level ~= 4 Barrens gang big-timer level ~= 6 Syndicate level ~= 8 Syndicate big-timer level ~= 10 Established Shadowrunner level ~= 12 Barrens ~= 300 BP, Syndicate ~= 350BP, Runner ~= 400BP
Like Wasabi says, I'd use anything from the source books which comes in table form or list form. So, guns, gear, Qualities and spells. Familiarize yourself with the options your players choose and discuss anything you'd see as potentially problematic. Really, it's not too likely that your players will go overboard with these things. They've got to read them all too. : )
For example, the Restricted Gear quality from Runner's Companion allows a single piece of gear up to avail 20. This assumes avail 12 to start. So, just apply it as a 2/3rd bonus to starting availability for choosing a piece of gear. So on an availability 6 game, you could grab a single avail 10 piece of gear, like Muscle Toner 2.




Guh.

Thanks for all the replies guys! I will probably have more questions as the framework comes together, but this is definitely giving me a good starting point. We are going to run with 4e ruleset, but scale the timelime back to late 2050's (probably 2055-2056...right before Dunkelzahn gets gakked). Probably going to lead up to the runners helping with the HKB/Transys battle, but going to start them off slower. Now off to get the rules supplements for the tables...