Grenade launcher ranges:

5-50; 51-100; 101-150; 151-500

Was this ever officially errata'd? I'm working on a maptools macro and need to code this in as the max range. I want to set it to 200, but it's always nice to have a page to point to.

M203 is 150m; M79 and MGL are 350-400m, double that with ERLP rounds. The book ranges seem reasonable.

Automatic grenade launchers, which aren't in SR4, have ranges of like 1500m.

What sets me off is the 50m increments on the first three, and then bam, another 350. If it was designed to shoot 500m, then shouldn't it be moderately accurate at 200?

I checked my SR4 (not A), its errata, the SR4a Changes PDF, the FAQ, Arsenal and the Arsenal Errata. I can't find anything modifying the range on a grenade launcher.

Sorry.

-D

*shrug*. Maybe that reflects how they're unlike bullets? Most weapons have a sort of doubling progression, but not all. Check out the progression for missile launchers.

Besides, the jump from Long to Extreme is a total of -3, right? So, bigger jump, bigger distance. If anything, the *rest* of the guns are wrong.

It is right. GL's shoot a long way and then scatter.

All I have to say on this matter is that "Bloop" can be a very scary sound...

right, and remember this isn't a mortar or missle, this is a hand held device with limited range designed for close support that has a little more range than your arm. Too much 'umph' will knock down the shooter. In WW2 the japanese had a very good small mortar that they fired form a kneeling position, braces on the ground. Some GI's thought it could be fired braced on a hip or leg and the recoil broke said hip or leg.

That was due to a Translater screwing up the name, "Knee Mortar".

Similar thing happened when the M-16 came out and people said "The recoil is so light you could fire it off your head."

Moral of the story, don't dare a US Marine to do anything, (s)he will probably do it.

We have been known to take up a challenge or two...

But then, look how Mount Suribachi turned out...

The extreme range has nothing to do with how far the weapon was designed to shoot, its the category "yeah it can go that far, just dont excpect to hit anythink that far"
There is the range a gun is ment to be used and then there is the range the ammo will travel while still being lethal, the latter is usually a much longer range.
There are few weopon classes that douple their range in the extreme tracket, missile luanchers triple their range.

The difference in Shadowrun is that for many runners, eliminating range penalties is at most a Take Aim action away.




-karma

Yeah, it's always vaguely bothered me that scopes essentially 'don't matter', because *everyone* already has 50x magnification at their fingertips. It's not like, 'oh, I'll bring the SCOPED rifle for this job'. But, that's The Future™ for you.

Not to mention that being able to zoom in apparently makes it as easy to take a 1,400m shot with a sniper rifle as a 50m one.

Yeah. Apparently, optics are the only thing affecting the bullet in flight. Alas.

Yeah, well, you have to give up a little reality to have a playable game... And for the record, the biggest discrepencies in the game, for me, are the way that Wapons are protrayed... ahh well... I learned to ignore the realities, so that my games stay fun... it is never fun to argue about ballistics and weapon systems all the time, especially with those who have no clue what I am saying...

I know, I just wish long-range combat were a *little* less easy. Sniping is supposed to be badass. Thank god it requires at least that Take Aim action, which was a big deal in a recent vehicle combat using a mounted LMG (no Krav Maga and all Gunnery uses are Complex Actions).

Indeed...

Though I have to say that Sniping is a very limited use in Shadowrun unless the GM makes space for it in his game. My Cyberlogician has some skill with Sniping (Both through Drones and Personally), but it does not come into the game much unless I make a point of it, which is rarely... When it does come into play, though, it is really nice...

Last time that happened out adept dismounted the HMG and used adpet centring and concentration to lay down a much better field of fire. In the back of a speeding ATV damn ghoul ork adepts

I guess, but then you lose the infinite RC and you gain the -3 for firing from a moving vehicle. You can't Center away Range, Recoil, AND Moving penalties, right?

Centering covers all IIRC and conectraion is just one modifier. You might not drop them all to 0 but she got it quite low.

Well, if you are a high level initiate you could... cost a lot of Karma though...

Yeah I kind of wish scoped shots 1/2d the penalty for range, or knocked it down one category or something. Knocking long to point blank seems a bit off to me.

Quite honestly the penalties for range are kinda low anyhow.

I mean, extreme range with a sniper rifle. Even a normal semi-trained dude has a decent chance to get hits shooting stuff at 1,500 meters away, with no scope, as it's only a -3 penalty. Which just seems wrong.

Mebbe double the existing penalties, and have Image Enhancement reduce the penalties by one per rating, down to zero?


-karma

That is not a bad compromise I would say... Though I would say that Image Magnification should be a bit less useful, especially at the Extreme Ranges (Which if Doubled in 4A would net you a -12 Penalty)... Hell, I could see Magnification knocking it down by only 3 as being fair, rather than halving the penalty)... after all, Very Few of the Worlds best Snipers can consistemntly hit a target at 1500+ Meters...

In Shadowrun, The Character that I play can Consistently hit a Target at the Extremem Range of the Weapon used (Moving or not), since there is generally no reaction for the first round down range... From the Second round on (Assuming the target acts first), I am still consitent enough that the opposition is generally FUBAR (Assuming the First round did not kill them, which would be somewhat rare I would think)...

Increasing the Penalties for those kind of Shots would go a long way to making Characters with the Exceptional Skill/Attribute Combinations Stand out a bit more, but ehhh, it is just a game, where this sort of thing is a lot more common than real life... Of course, you can always augment that Attribute to make up some of the difference, but still, the average Joe should not be making those kinds of shots consistently...

Range modifiers got upped to 0/-1/-3/-6 with SR4A.

And I totally agree on having scopes drop it one range category.

Then improved range finder becomes even better as add that to a scope and you are down by 2. So at a -1 or nothing in SR4A.

Rangefinder is 0/0/-2/-5.

Scope would be 0/0/-1/-3.

The two are incompatible. Both get smartgun bonus.

A better solution would be limiting Scopes to Long range, by changing a scope to negate -3 of Range/Distance penalties.(long is -3, so it'd cancel out up to long)

That way, Extreme range - the super-crazy long distance shots - still take some amount of skill (and a -3) to pull off.

I'm fine with scopes provide up to 3 points of 'range compensation'.

Yeah, I wouldn't complain about that at all...