Hey all- here's something I'm not entirely sure about, I don't know if because I've missed it in reading or what. Anywho, I'm getting an idea together for something and need a help from our Gestalt here.

What effect on a mage's Talent does revitalization have? By which I mean treatments like Leonization and the more recent rejuvenation techniques like Yamada has that made him physically 35 again. By general magical theory, cyber and bio both affect the Talent because both the 'ware and the surgery to implant it disrupts the mana flow in a body. But what does the rejuvenation do? I've got my theories but I need some input.

IIRC they cost essence or at least they did pre 4e, I have not looked them up in 4e. So that would be the effect, you lose a bit of mojo due to the disruption to the connection between body and spirit. I do not believe there is any additional effects, nothing like your magic is reset to the age point you are rejuvenating to.

The treatments do cost essence in 4th.

There is, indeed, a treatment that restores a lost essence hole. Another one thats far cheaper which gets rid of essence loss from critter powers and the like.

So, basically, unless you want to GM-handwave an effect....

the mage would lose a partial point of essence, reduce their magic by 1, possibly lose some initiate grades if they are heavily initiated compared to their magic grade, and....

well, then they'd take cybereyes or something, cuz hey, why not.

Is there an errata on that somewhere? Because according to Augmentation, they do not cost essence.

I.... could have sworn most of the genetweaks like that had a cost of like, 0.1 or something.

I mean, if they're going to charge essence for cosmetic crap like Silky Skin...

But, ah, yeah. You're right. Genetic Restoration type treatments don't have essence cost. My bad. Two of them do happen to -increase- your essence. One of them doesn't give lost magic back.

AFAIK, such treatments have no effect on magic.

Yep, somewhere in along the line someone made a development decision that mages just had it too hard being able to do pretty much anything in the game, so they took out the bulk of those affects that cost people magic and essence and now we have Magicrun: The game of future magic.

Well, to be honest, this sort of treatment isn't really a player necessity unless the campaign has gone that long, although it's an interesting idea for a character.

But I don't know if I entirely agree with your assessment, Lurker, and that really isn't helping the discussion anyway.

Lots of things like this don't need an essence cost in the balance side of things. Saying you are 150 doesn't change that you have a pistols skill of 3. But fluff wise things like this should cost essence which is why it was a minimal essence cost in previous editions. It is not a huge deal I think it was .1 essence before. Don't get me wrong I've got a few sams down to the point where .1 essence loss would kill me, but it really isn't much of a cost, and really wont be effecting many players. I guess if you started your game in SR1 and have been running the same character since then he'd be hitting 50 something, but I'd think that is unusual.

I thought we were actually talking about the treatment that gives you essence back; it'd be a little silly for it to cost essence.

I could see Leonization costing essence, though. As Acme pointed out, it's basically a worthless fluff item that no character will ever need, after all. At least it's less of a waste of ink than the penile implant.

I think the idea behind the new rules is that Leonizing, etc doesn't add anything new to your body; they just "reset the code" in your cells back to when you were younger. Whereas treatments like Genetic Optimization add new bits, slightly rewriting your genetic code.

Shrug; as others have said, not like it makes a difference in play - unless I leonize an old mage NPC, I guess I can get away with initiating him one less time to get him where I want him power-wise

Dude, don't even.

Wow, way to go Neraph.


YOU JUST READ IT... YOU CAN'T UN-READ IT!

I actually have known more characters with the penile implant to be honest.

They go together, like Botox and Viagra.

I didn't mean any characters would ever use it. I meant that it's good to have Leonization in the setting; penile implant has no such value.

Given the sick torture sequences I've been subjected to by fellow players or as the Gm, I'm not so sure penile implant has no value.

Wait. Is that a reason for or against?

Yes.

I like the yes answer, but to be serious. It is a for not an against. I'm not saying it is needed, but like I said fellow players or the GM have frequently pulled the we will chop off x body part torture crap in games I've played with. And "torture works" thanks to spells like detect truth.

Though I think I would have gained just as much value or more from a general cosmetic mod .2 essence thing with a list of possible suggestions including sexual organs.

Channeling a Vorlon ambassador much?

We are all changing light-bulbs.

Man, I love the Vorlons.

What edition would that be, only think i can find is for third edition(SOTA2063) where leonization cost 1 point of Bio index(which i cant remeber nor sheck whether it affects magic) actually being the most expensive piece of geneware in that regard.

Was it bio-index in SR3? In SR2 I am fairly sure it was essence and had a hard cap on like 6 treatments. Still bioindex and essence represented similar things that were rolled into the same thing in 4e.

This is the reason why my mage has carefully stored preserved samples of herself, when such a thing comes to pass:)
I'll send them up-orbit to be kept safe when she's got enough dough:) (Ritual workings, anyone?)

-Tir