I have a question about this. If you turn off your wireless, wouldn't the wireless of your smartgun stay active? And the hacker still in control of it? If your turn off your wireless, would you also not lose all of the benefits from your cyberware?

If your turn off your wireless, would you also not lose all of the benefits from your cyberware?
Not at all !
You still have control via DNI ('ware)or Skinlink(Guns).
Not turning it off is what makes it dangerous

With a dangerous Dance
Medicineman

Some Cyberware has the possibility of skin-linking instead of wireless.
One of the possible modifications fora gun with an internal smartgun, is skinlink.
You could go old school and have fibre running between the gun and your commlink.

Some cyberware can be implanted with the wireless turned off, but then requiring surgery for any maintenance.

Sorry, didn't see this thread seperated from the other one, here is my comment,

That's exactly how I play it Dingo, and it wasn't until 4th Edition that the system gave you the freedom to really do that.

I disagree, SR4.5 doesn't really give you that freedom any more than previous editions. As pointed out in the other thread, a simple decking run with low security will take six to eight rolls. That's six to eight actions in combat, enough so that just shooting the other guy is a more viable option.

Depends. For an ambush, it's awfully handy, and I've definitely played deckers who would rather make 8 rolls at matrix initiative speeds and actually win than 4 rolls at meat speeds and miss every time.

My guns don't have wireless and never will, thats what the skinlink is for

If for some odd reason you dont want to control it via skinlink you could lower the Signal rating to 0 on your commlink and set the gun to Signal 0. To hack in the signal rating of the hacker and the target device he wants to hack must be within each others range so you could only be hacked within 3 meters. If you run ECCM 6 then your pitiful Signal strength can only be reduced by a rating 7+ jammer and the jammer rating drops off over distance. (see 'Jammer' gear entry, SR4A p329)

Yeah but that hacker's Signal 6 commlink laughs at your 3 meters.
Hes' got a signal strength of 10km radius
Also your smartgun, cannot run eccm6, so your smartgun can totally be squashed by a jammer

Hacking needs a 2-way communication, so the hackers signal range of 10km does him jack shit.

I missed the fine print on mutual signal range.

But the GM doesn't need a Node Map, or a Security Sheaf (with five different target numbers!) to represent the system being hacked. And can you serious tell me that Decking (prior to VR2.0) took less roles? Wandering around a Matrix "dungeon" looking for that I/O Node to turn off the cameras or that Datastore that has the paydata you need was really frustrating. VR2.0/SR3 is pretty close to how SR4 represents systems, but SR4 uses less attributes and numbers so it's easier for a GM to come up with things on the fly. Where SR4 really "unshackles" the system is not having to manage Storage Memory, Active Memory, program/file size, I/O Speed, and all that other boringness.

My biggest issue with SR4 is ad hoc nodes. If my group's hacker asks me for some piece of data (it can be anything, from a question, to account number to personal records), I can either have him to a data search or tell him he can't find it out in public. If its not public and he still wants to pursue it, I can either give him "the look" or say, okay, where do you want to start hacking into.

Regardless of whether this piece of information is stored, I really find it pointless to run him through 6 different nodes worth of hacking, telling him "Nope, nothing like that in there" until he finds a node that "could" have the information.

I suppose I could just say, yeah, its public, and set the time on the extended test and not worry about whether I really think it would be available on public nodes. Maybe I just am interpreting the rules incorrectly and any information should be available with a data search (although I don't think I am).

Point is, that, on the fly, I have to think up a Response, System, Firewall and Signal for the node and then a basic script if an alert is triggered and then any actions. That may not seem like a lot, but it bogs my head down if I wasn't planning on a matrix scene.

Now, Unwired has some good example nodes that I suppose I could just use wholesale for these ad hoc matrix runs.

I don't know, I guess I am just having trouble "fixing" this situation by the rules.

I can't argue against that. Though if your into gear this is like turning the Ars Predator into Heavy Pistol, except the matrix never got that much flavor, they tried in VR1.0 but failed.

A streamlining of the rolling would be nice.

Additionally I'd like to tweak the response rules just a tad. (and the sensor rules a HUGE amount)
Basically, the current response of your 'node' = max rating of program you can run.

I would also like to see the response of a system tweak the 'interval' of actions.
Response 6 = all actions as standard
Response 5 = All actions as standard
Response 4 = free actions become simple actions, simple actions become complex actions, complex actions take an extra IP
Response 3= same as 4
Response 2= free actions are complex actions, simple actions are complex actions that take 2 ip, complex actions, take 3ip
Response 1 = same as 2
Response 0 = node hangs and refuses to respond. reboot required. Every round the system kills 1 program running at random.


Something along those lines.
Additionally, when in a node, you use the lowest response between the node and your commlink for taking actions in the node.

So if you go to edit a file in a node with a response 1, even though your commlink is response 6, you're still moving at response 1 speeds. Vice versa, if you're in a Response 6 node, and you have a response 3 comlink. You're using response 3.

Look at the Datasearch rules for Warez/Pirate underground VPNs.
This should give you a decent way to allow your hacker to look for shadow information, without trying to hack a dozen systems.
Heck, even if all that shadow info tells him, is that he wants to hack UCAS Tax Node 722a, which has the matrix id of X.
At least, then you now have a mini-matrix adventure.

I generally found most of that only hindered the non-decker who was on the matrix. Deckers would build there deck to the point that things like active memory were not a real limit. Still it was a layer of complexity, it just seemed to only crop up at char gen for us, or odd runs where you had to use the targets deck or something.

At the end of the day all versions of SR have way too many rolls and actions to accomplish simple tasks. Haxxor the data deep in the system sure make it a mini adventure just like when your infiltration expert(ninja) is scouting the area, the face is gathering info from his long list of contacts or whatever. You need to open the door, takes control of someones tac-net it should be like 2 passes at most. Heck 1 pass would be enough for the door IMO, there should be a free action perception(SA gets bonus dice), simple action to stealth past security or temporarily disable it, simple action for command open the freakin door.

I take it you weren't around when you needed to make up a whole system map on the fly? Or System with 7 different attributes (colour, rating, and target numbers for Access, Control, Index, Files, and Slave) along with a multi-step "security sheaf" of what the system does before and after alerts are triggered.

I come up with Node stats on the fly the same way I come up with NPC stats on the fly: categorize the opposition as Inferior, Equivalent, Superior, or Superhuman. Then, you just apply a simple modifier to whatever the player is rolling and call that the opposing dice pool:
Inferior: -2
Equivalent: 0
Superior: +2
Superhuman: +4

If you want to simplify SR4 nodes even more, just forget about all the various attributes and programs and just give them one number, based on how difficult you think it should be (which could be based on the ratings and modifiers given above). Once you have that one number, assume that all its attributes are that number, and every program it has is at that number. Then everything the Hacker does is opposed by Rating x 2. One number. Done.

Yes and no. I ran a very little bit of first edition. I was 14 or 15. Didn't understand the magic system, so we didn't use it. My two players were interested in guns, cyberware and rigging, so no matrix stuff either. I did look through a couple adventures with system maps (reminded me of massive flowcharts) and I did love playing through the matrix on the SNES and Genesis Shadowrun games (even though they were vastly different from one another).

Ironic that you mention the categories. I do exactly that for NPC dice pools. Never thought to do that with matrix opposition.

And I actually like the idea of one number and Rating x 2 opposing everything the hacker does. That's my level of simplicity and streamlining!

Five different target numbers is much easier to manage than fifty different pool sizes. And while I won't say it took *less* rolls, I will say that it didn't take substantially more to accomplish the same thing.

For non-exceptional systems, colour and rating determine ACIFS (and for throw-away systems, ACIFS basically collapses to a single value with a bonus and/or penalty). The security sheaf can be generated lazily—you don't need to know what happens after Active Alert when the decker logs on with no tally. I'm really not sure how you're arguing that this was complicated—have you actually run decking under 3rd edition, and if so was it for a player who bothered to learn the rules under which their character operated?

~J