Full Version: Active Denial System (Pain Beam)
| QUOTE |
| There is something similar to the meltagun developed by the US army as a non-lethal deterrant. It produces a beam of millimeter-wave radiation (between the IR and Microwave bands) that can get through clothes then make the skin's surface feel extremely hot. Do a search on millimeter wave on these forums, there was a discussion about millimeter wave stuff a while ago. |
* From Between Baton and Bullet, Dec 2002 Jane's International Defense Review. Hope this clears some issues up.
| QUOTE |
| The JNLWD is also pursuing other directed-energy candidates. The Active Denial System (ADS) advanced concept technology demonstration (ACTD), which began in Fiscal Year 2002 (FY02), will expand on the earlier Active Denial Technology (ADT) program sponsored by the directorate. At intensities greater than about 1W/cm2, the predominant effects of microwave radiation on humans are thermal. Most of the energy is deposited in tissue within a depth of one-tenth of a wavelength, and the resultant temperature rise generates physiological effects that dominate possible non-thermal results. The ADS, like its predecessor, uses a beam of energy at millimeter wavelengths (95GHz) to heat an adversary's skin to an optimum temperature of 55º C, causing intense pain. The system is designed to deposit the energy at a depth of 0.3mm in tissue, where the pain-sensing nerves lie. The ACTD is expected to result in a system that could be mounted on vehicles such as the HMMWV, and possibly in aircraft, to provide non-lethal engagement of personnel from ranges of at least 750m. Raytheon AET, working with the High Power Microwave Division in the AFRL's Directed Energy Directorate (which had already been conducting work in this area), built two 'repel demonstrators' under the ADT program with funding from the JNLWD. Communications and Power Industries designed and built the gyrotron millimeter-wave source, which generates a rotating electron beam in a strong magnetic field (approximately 3.4 Tesla) produced by an electrically cooled superconducting magnet. The electrons interact resonantly with electromagnetic waves in a cavity. This interaction bunches the electron beam, converting the energy into millimeter waves. These are further converted to a beam that is shaped by mirrors and then passes through a window of polycrystalline diamond. The secondary mirror illuminates the 2m-diameter primary reflector, which employs the FLAPS (Flat Aperture Parabolic Surface) design developed by Malibu Research. The FLAPS surface is a Fresnel mirror constructed from an array of dipoles that achieves high gain with reduced mechanical tolerances. The antenna is mounted on a turret that is stabilized in azimuth and elevation. An operator steers the antenna with the aid of a boresighted low-light video camera and thermal imager. The atmosphere slightly absorbs the beam, and heavy rain can degrade performance. These effects are not considered important, however, since the operator must see the target in order to engage it. ADT was successfully tested at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico during March 2001 as the final phase of a Force Protection Battlelab demonstration. It met or exceeded the required performance in terms of peak power density on target, dwell time and beamwidth. ADT does not burn and does not cause prolonged or unnecessary suffering, permanent damage, or long-term effects. A large safety margin is said to exist between causing intolerable pain and burning in the operational range. Researchers explored the possibility of eye damage and skin cancer and have eliminated these as a concern. The eye has many pain receptors on the cornea and an aversion response protects the eyes. Experiments also demonstrated that millimeter-wave energy does not promote cancer. |
Edit: Fixed date.
| QUOTE (Tzeentch) |
| [* From Between Baton and Bullet, Dec 2022 Jane's International Defense Review. Hope this clears some issues up. |
Dec 2022? You are not talking IRL, are you?
Regular or extra crispy?
~J
~J
regular! regular! ah god turn it off!
I want this in flashlight form... bug me for change while walking across the street will you...
In Shadowrun, I'd stat this equivilant to a Laser, but Stun rather than normal damage.
| QUOTE (Toptomcat) |
| In Shadowrun, I'd stat this equivilant to a Laser, but Stun rather than normal damage. |
As I recall, though, the effect only lasts while you're being "baked." Once the beam is off you, there's only brief moments of lingering pain, and then it's gone. OTOH, stun damage would take hours to heal up.
so stat it like the laser and use the rules for the agony spell?
Seems like, if this device is in development today, it should be commonplace stuff by 2060, hardly SOTA as the laser is. I'd make it much cheaper and easier to find, probably even legal in many areas since it's nonlethal.
Given Dunkie's reward for developing a viable nonlethal system, I'd say that this must be, one way or another, a massive failure in Shadowrun.
~J
~J
Also, as much as we'd like to think it was, SR is not our actual future. The lack of the Shaiwase decision in '02 is the death-knell of that idea.
It sounds like the pain of the beam is similar to the pain of someone wielding a knife while affected by Hot Potato.
| QUOTE (Large Mike) |
| Also, as much as we'd like to think it was, SR is not our actual future. The lack of the Shaiwase decision in '02 is the death-knell of that idea. |
Really? What reality are you posting from? I remember the Shiawase decision like it was yesterday.
Next thing you're going to tell me you don't remember the food riots...
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 5 2004, 07:37 AM) |
| Given Dunkie's reward for developing a viable nonlethal system, I'd say that this must be, one way or another, a massive failure in Shadowrun. |
As noted, SR isn't strictly our future. Also, a lot of technology was lost in the Crash of 2029, particularly sensitive and secret information.
| QUOTE |
| Next thing you're going to tell me you don't remember the food riots... |
The point of the alternate history talk being, in SR, the microwave area denial thingamabob may be just around the corner rather than old hat. Or it might be waiting for recovery off some Crash-wrecked company's old paper files.
What about cancer? I know jack about medicine, but my general understanding is that radiation = cancer...
| QUOTE (Backgammon) |
| my general understanding is that radiation = cancer... |
A common perception, mostly fueled by bad 80's montser movies.
Radiation is a term for a very large group of energy emmissions. Light as you know it is a small portion of the EM radiation spectrum. IR radiation is part of the same spectrum, a large region past the color red. Some portions of the EM spectrum are hazardous to humans (that UV-B section...), but most radiation is harmless and in great abundance around you in your daily life.
Ionizing Radiation causes cancer. Non-Ionizing doesn't. Microwaves are Non-Ionizing. Like radiowaves and infrared and visible light. Examples of ionizing radiation include gamma rays, alpha particles, and neutrons.
Linky
Linky
| QUOTE (Backgammon) |
| What about cancer? I know jack about medicine, but my general understanding is that radiation = cancer... |
Darnit, two people beat me to being the knowitall on radiation and cancer.
Microwave radiation won't cause cancer, but if you're exposed to enough watts, you will risk serious and immediate effects, as summarized by Kagetenshi and mfb:
Kagetenshi: "Regular or extra crispy?"
mfb: "regular! regular! ah god turn it off!"
Exactly like sticking your hand under a heat lamp (lots of infrared radiation) or in front of an arc light (lots of visible and IR radiation). No cancer, just burns.
So that stuff about Cell phones causeing brain cancer is bunk?
What about the story of the police officer getting testicular cancer from keeping his radar gun between his legs?
What about the story of the police officer getting testicular cancer from keeping his radar gun between his legs?
I don't know what the exact effects of vast amount of radio signals will do to people, but working in my field when I go to a radio site, it has FCC warning signs on the fence saying prolonged exsporusre to humans can be dangerous. Now I don't know if that is just away to scare people a way from the sites, but it makes me wonder how long is to long when I am in the radio site for 10 hours. A lot of the towers also have microwave dishes on them so that maybe a reason for the warning. Or the fact America has become so sue happy, they figure better safe then sorry with warning signs.
I think the simple fact of the matter is: We don't know enough about it yet.
Ionising radiation causes radiation burns, sickness, and often subsequent cancer. Non-Ionising radiation on the other hand, well it's been a matter for debate for years, with both sides shooting holes in each others research.
I rather suspect that prolongued and frequent exposure to such a weapon would have it's health risks - anything that has the potential to litterally boil the fluid in skin cells can't be good for you, and IIRC DNA has it's fair share of O-H bonds, which if forced to resonate may have unpleasant side effects.
Ionising radiation causes radiation burns, sickness, and often subsequent cancer. Non-Ionising radiation on the other hand, well it's been a matter for debate for years, with both sides shooting holes in each others research.
I rather suspect that prolongued and frequent exposure to such a weapon would have it's health risks - anything that has the potential to litterally boil the fluid in skin cells can't be good for you, and IIRC DNA has it's fair share of O-H bonds, which if forced to resonate may have unpleasant side effects.
| QUOTE (Jpwoo) |
| So that stuff about Cell phones causeing brain cancer is bunk? |
Yes. The evidence for cancer caused by cellphones is dubious at best. The rates of occurance are so low that it's hard to sort out what the cause is. Was it the cellphone, or was it just a normal brain tumor from genetic or other environmental causes?
| QUOTE |
| What about the story of the police officer getting testicular cancer from keeping his radar gun between his legs? |
What else had he been exposed to? A lot of these claims that "this gizmo caused me cancer of the X" do not seem to eliminate other possibe cancer causing agents as the culprit. The number of carcinogens in the environment is staggering.
It's kind of like you being blamed for a murder in New York City solely because you were in town at the same time, and no other suspects were identified or eliminated.
| QUOTE (Frag-o Delux) |
| A lot of the towers also have microwave dishes on them so that maybe a reason for the warning. Or the fact America has become so sue happy, they figure better safe then sorry with warning signs. |
There is the lawsuit happy angle; a warning sign is a lot cheaper than a potential lawsuit. Also, the microwave towers do put out a lot of watts - there's that baking risk if nothing else.
Oh yeah, and UV isn't ionising either, and I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think that causes skin cancer.
| QUOTE (Large Mike) |
| Also, as much as we'd like to think it was, SR is not our actual future. The lack of the Shaiwase decision in '02 is the death-knell of that idea. |
Shoo with your "reality" and talk like that.
Heh
| QUOTE (Darkest Angel) |
| Oh yeah, and UV isn't ionising either, and I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think that causes skin cancer. |
UV is energetic enough to dissociate chemicals. I'm not sure if that's "ionizing," but the effects are the same: UV's got the punch to damage DNA.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.