I understood I just didn't particularly agree, and thought I'd let Kaiser decide on his own. Personally, I don't see why meta-types should get larger stats for cheaper. From my perspective the purpose of both karma gen and BP is to create a benchmark for some sort of balance between the characters in the group. Letting meta-types get stats cheaper runs counter to that purpose. Now, maybe one feels that the points systems are supposed to simulate what is common or likely and what is unlikely, (not everyone is super strong, for instance, so it costs more points to be strong). Some folks seems to like some sort of compromise system that attempts to represent both at the same time. From those perspectives one could bring up other issues. Basically I'm just going to let Kaiser decide .

On a completely unrelated note, have we worked anything more about the setting/theme for the game beyond that we're set in Seattle? Do you know how steeped you intend to be in the canon trappings of Seattle, Kaiser? Shadowsea, KSAF, Helix, etc.? I'm somewhat light on canon "fluff" lore, myself :/. I thought I read that we were doing mid-level, modestly experienced shadowrunners--small timers making the move to the middle weight division as it were. But, I can't seem to find where I read that, so it could be that I'm just losing my mind .

Losing your mind is not so bad. It is quite liberating.

Just a quickie: are those RAW, sabs? Because in the copy of the Runner's Companion I have it says 0 cost for metatypes in karmagen..

Is this ruling in some errata I haven't seen?

If it's not RAW, that's fine, but we may as well be hanged for a whole sheep as half a lamb.

Shin: I didn't explicitly state it anywhere, but you're pretty close...as a group you're fairly recently formed. Whilst you've all run the shadows before, you haven't necessarily done it as a team yet. Maybe some of you have been working together for a little while now, or maybe your character only just joined. You've all been running for a few short years now and survived, so you know your trades quite well whilst not being experts yet. You are not well-known, either to other shadowrunners or the police, which probably has more benefits than it does drawbacks. This is the group's first time out together with this line-up, with you due to meet a new Mr Johnson, arranged via a trusted contact.

I need to read up on the Seattle fluff myself, but for now assume it's per the book with minor changes possible here and there.

Final ruling on karmagen will be monday at the latest.

Enjoy your weekends, guys!

That is the raw if you're German.
The actual RAW is:
Pay 0 Karma for base meta-human type (troll, elf, dwarf, ork)
Pay BP cost in Karma for special races (vampire, banshee, Free Spirit, AI, etc)
You get the Base Stats for free.
Raising an attribute is 5xRating (to match the Karma rules from SR4A)

You can spend 1/2 Karma total + BP cost of race*2 on your stats, instead of just 1/2 Karma total.

The german version of Runner's Companion charges BP cost in Karma for base meta-human types.

So, Playing a Troll would cost you 40 Karma
and you would start with a STR of 5 and a Body of 5, +1 reach, thermal vision, +1 natural armor
Given that it would cost you 140 Karma to get a Str and Body of 5 normally. That's not a bad deal.

In BP gen, you're paying 40BP, and those stats are worth 80 BP.

In Karma gen though, you don't get free knowledge skills based on your int/log.

Any news from Kaiser?

Okay, the final word is:

Karmagen, 750 karma, metatype karma cost = BP cost x2.


Thanks everyone for all your thoughts/ideas/suggestions, but now the decision is made and we can move on and get some characters made!

awesome, thanks