So, Seattle Police Department is ranked number 6 in the United States for best department to work for, based on salary, living costs, and other criteria.

I imagine it hasn't changed much in 60 years, so the Knight-Errant are probably doing very well for themselves. Especially since, generally speaking, private companies can do a more efficient job on less money than a government can.

Well, the average salary of a policeman is remarkbly higher in comparision with the average income at all - that has changed very much in SR iirc. And today's Seattle has much less inhabitants then Seattle 2072, SR version - and no metahumans, HMMVV victims, Barrens, magic....

That statement is questionable, as much of the "efficiency" comes from not having to deal with cleanups or the ability to refuse jobs that are basically a money drain.

A lot of the efficiency can also come from paying lower salaries/benefits than the government, so an "efficient" privatized police force wouldn't necessarily be better to work for.

Shadowrun is about that dystopian goodness, remember, so I would probably treat Lone Star and/or Knight Errant more like third world cops - paid less, and more prone to corruption as a result. Plus, they will tend to not care too much about crimes that don't happen in the areas they are paid to patrol.

...which seems to be exactly what LS/KE do - if policing an area blows their budget, then that area is not going to be policed unless the client (the city in this case) agrees to pay extra.

Seatle 2072 also describes that many former LS cops in seattle have been taken over by KE (but for reduced paychecks) after the contract changed. Sorry no refference, as I dont have the book handy, but IIRC, it was in one or the short fictions.

The entire police force was fired in 2023. How can it not have changed much in 60 years of riots, refugees, concentration camps, VITAS, crashes, and the separation of Seattle from the rest of the country?

You know, whatever happened to the Shadowtalker "SPD"?

And I mean other than being fired in '23.

And we cannot take Seattle from today to compare, because Shadowrun is based on an extreme extension of Seattle of the 1980's. Seattle in the last 30 years RL has put a ton of work into improving itself, and it's record. The Microsoft Millionaires were much less common in 1987, compared to 10 years later. Seattle as a whole was a whole different kind of town. The Shadowrun Seattle of 2072 is vastly different, than how we would potentially create a Seattle of 2072 if we started diverging from 2010.

It's one of the 'problems' so to speak with Shadowrun. It makes assumptions about the future based on 1980's politics and technology. If they were writing Shadowrun today.. it would look very different. And much less Japanese centric.. for one.

I doubt thats the case in the Seattle area. Thanks to Microsoft, Boeing, Starbucks, and others the average income here is pretty high compared to the rest of the nation. Even the entry level job at the fast food restaurant is $2 an hour more than minimum wage.

I agree with sabs, Seattle was a different place in the 80s.

When Belltown and lower Queen Anne were filled with crackheads and hookers, and not yuppies and hipsters?

$10 an hour (which is about $3 over minimum wage) comes out to roughly $25k a year. Entry level police make $32k a year, and 2nd pay grade (after completing all your qualifications - in other words, most police) are in the $45k+ range. And that's only standard, small-town pay you can expect in the first year. Bigger cities may not neccessarily pay more (although most do), but they also have other incentives, such as bonuses or other perks.

EDIT: Edited for clarity.

Such as being able to carry firearms while disarming the rest of the country, break traffic laws with impunity, and boss people around because you have authority?

Sorry, I know, not all cops are like that.

Just most, sadly =/

Entry level help desk at Microsoft as a contractor with no prior experience is usually $15 an hour. Most will start in the $17-19 range. Baristas at Starbucks get $9-12 + tips, full health benefits etc, even for part timers. Just saying the Seattle area pays well, mostly because our housing costs are through the roof. My house is an hour from downtown (where I work) and cost 300k and needed about 100k in repairs just to not be a dump. Its 2000sq ft on a 9000 sq ft lot which is kinda big for the area. Most of my neighbors are 1800sq ft with a 6000 sq ft lot.

EDIT: When I was living downtown my rent was 1300 a month no utilities included (so I had to pay w/s/g, electric, oil) for a one bedroom 800 sq foot apartment. But I was a 20 min bus ride to work. I've worked with several law enforcement departments over the years and most of the officers live an hour plus outside of Seattle, even the federal ones.



I would say a majority in this area are not, except the traffic laws part... which honestly everyone does because unless your driving dangerously you'll be ignored as its not hard for the state patrol to fill their quota.

Eh, I guess it also depends on what areas we're talking about. The area I'm in, your house would be about $160k and that apartment would be only $800, so our slightly lower pay end takes us further. Again, that's one of the things that was calculated for the listing I found - pay rate versus expenses.

Police also have the perk of pulling over drunk drivers who might have a shotgun in the car. Getting shot at by dealers, bank robbers, and shadow runners. Having to get involved in domestic affairs where the wife with the black eye hits them with a frying pan because she loves 'her man' who just beat the crap out of her and caused the neighbors to call the cops.

45k a year when your chances of death are not 0, seems kinda low actually
Although Seattle cops aren't in much danger. They've had 8 officer deaths since 1980.

Bah double post

Hey, they should be glad their job wasn't outsourced to India like mine was.

College degree not even worth the paper it's printed on... *Mumbles and Grumbles*

Oh, and you forgot another thing Police have to deal with: People that think they're all corrupt.

Quoted for truth. I just placed my application for another police department today.

What? The link given in the first post shows for Seattle:

City’s Average Salary: $49,890

Starting Salary for Police Officers: $60,672

In SR 2072, the starting salary for a Lone Star Cops is much lower than that iirc. Can't recall where I read it, maybe the Lone Star Sourcebook, but it was more in the range of 20,000 .

I read somewhere (believe "Lone Star") that the police don't make enough to cover thier cost of living; they effectively would have to live Low Lifestyles on what they are paid... (and yet, do not ).

Lets see, the lone star book is how old now?

Yeah, they're probably paid less now.

And? In a dystopian future, the cops get reasonable cost-of-living pay increases?

Added: ninja-ed.

See the problem with that is I don't think its including Redmond (Microsoft),Kirkland (Google) Bellevue (Valve), and the other surrounding towns. However if you get far enough out of the Sprawl the pay would go down again (like Everett and Tacoma) All I'm saying is the Cops I know can't afford to live in Seattle proper, their pay isnt in salary its in having a pension

Well, why don't we ask someone who was there?

Actually, Seattle in the 80's was the recovery period. The famous Will the last person leaving Seattle turn out the lights billboard appeared in the '70's. During the 80's, things were getting better, even before we knew about the Microsoft millions and the return of Boeing. Japanophobia never really hit Seattle; the city has a long history of working with Asians, and in fact had some of the earliest Asian-American elected officials. (Later on, Gary Locke would become the first Chinese-American governor in the USA.) We weren't afraid of the Japanese.

I'd say more, given how SR seems to have moved away from the "one job away from starving" undertone of the old books.

Seattle was also /viewed/ differently by other parts of the country.
I'm not sure how many of the original writers were Seattle Natives

Seattle was on the fore-front of the Japanese invasion. They were Asia friendly, they had as many, if not more, Asian businesses popping up than LA did.

It could easily be the perception the original writers had. Really all of the fluff is based on their perceptions, and perhaps some research (although sometimes it seems clear they didn't bother doing a ton of research on some subjects)

"Some"?

As for the "One job away from starving", I'm still aiming at trying for that. Don't think I'm experienced enough a GM for it, however.

Seattle still *is* viewed differently by the rest of the country. Really, all most people know about it is that it's the capital of the other Washington (which it isn't. ) Seattle has a long history of cultural exchanges with the Japanese, as opposed to the Chinese. Heck, everywhere else, the Japanese were still suffering prejudice from WWII. Seattle was probably the least prejudiced against the Japanese during the 70's.

IIRC, the original writers chose Seattle off a map, and did minimal research. They did hit on a few good points, as I recall. Auburn and Kent are probably the only neighborhoods that'd elect an Ork named Zax Pound-Down as mayor.

On the other hand, I could not see liberal Seattle ever electing someone like Brackhaven (the equivalent of David Duke) to office. Other than some similar landmarks and names, the Shadowrun version has little to do with the "real" version of Seattle.

Which just puts it right in line with all the rest of the Shadowrun universe compared to the real one.

IIRC, Chicago got some pretty decent treatment. Then again, FASA was based in Chicago, so it only goes to show. Fun Trivia fact: the Cermak Blast was centered on the then-current FASA headquarters.

Well, the problem with Brackhaven is that he got to the position due to one candidate having AIPS (And pulled out of the elections due to that), and the other going Senile due to experimental cybernetics.

When faced with that, the guy with a business model that actually has a chance of working doesn't seem so bad. ... As long as you have rounded ears, of course.

Dude, you as the Seattle-Native of this thread, don't mention Grunge? Tsss....

That's because it doesn't need to be mentioned.

Ever.

Again.

Period.

Give me whiny Hippie protest songs or punk any day!

You want a grunge story, whippersnapper?

More years ago than I want to think about, I went to the OK Hotel to see a a friend's band. On the playset was a band no one had heard of before-- called Nirvana.

Anyone who was in the scene during those days would know of two places you never spoke of: The Last Exit on Brooklyn coffee shop, and the OK Hotel. The OK Hotel was the place to hear and see lice music. The owners were good about finding and booking local talent, and everybody played the OK Hotel. The place was damaged beyond repair in the Nisqually Earthquake, but I always wanted to see a new one pop up in the Seattle sourcebooks.

When I was in Seattle a couple of years ago we saw very few police, infact it was a problem-large numbers of homeless in some areas disauded us from visiting china town, and it, to this day, is a joke between my husband and I- that there was 'a' cop in the whole town. Seriously in the week we were there we saw 2 officers at a road site directing traffic, 1 on a bicycle, a car driving on the raisded road way (Alaska drive?) one night and a dog being trained by firemen to detect accelerants. That was it. In a week, in the city.

Alaskan Way Viaduct.

And that's a good thing. Police congregate where there's trouble, and you seem like you didn't encounter any.