It is very simple :

"Maximum Force for a spell is equal to Magic Attribute x2 or Spellcasting (wichever is lower)"

"When trying to summon, banish or bind a Spirit you can only affect spirit of a Force at maximum equal to Magic Attribute x2 or Summoning/Banishing/Binding (releveant skill) (wichever is lower)"

"Specialisation also adjust the maximum Force of Spell/Spirit of the related category"

"A Spell Focus also adjust the maximum Force of Spell/Spirit of the related category"

"Ritual Magic add 1 to Spell/Spirit Force by supplementary caster".

At first I was thinking about using Skill x2, but I think using only Skill x1 then add focus and specialisation would help mark better difference between caster.

My premise is that, except by name, spellcaster archetypes are fairly versatile with no real specialties baring the spell list. I was trying to add personnalities in the mage building by using specialisation. I think the mages/shaman are just as much potent in their specialised area (perhaps even more now that they have huge incent to specialise and use focus), without losing more than the ability to overcast/oversummon in other areas (even then using focus/ritual/spirit service get that avaliable).

It also make buying Magic Skills group a bit less advantageous and provide a small edge to those concentrating on one or two skills (banishers, summoners)...

Opinions ?

I've been thinking about something in a similar vein - ways to make the different traditions actually mean something beyond what stat you use for drain attributes. It's difficult to balance all the traditions while making them all unique, though.

I like this take on making mages more diverse, but I think it might gimp them in some pretty crucial situations, such as Banishing a high-force spirit - if Banishing (a skill almost no one takes very high as it is) isn't high enough, the mage can't do anything to help. Since not every mage has (or wants to rely on) foci, maybe make it Skill x2 + spec or Magic x2, whichever is lower. I think that limits it enough, since skills are capped and magic is not.

I gotta run right now, but I'll post some more ideas when I get back.

I agree the limit seems a bit low, especially for banishing.

For banishing on the fly that is. It make preparation necessary for the vast majority of mages confronted with higher level spirits; wich isn't necessarily bad scenaristically.

Also think that the spirit Force wont be as high either, except for specialised mages, making Toxic that much dangerous. A common spirit will be more in the 3-5 range than the 6-8 one.

If there is several mages in the group they could cooperate for the banishing, raising their level.

Trouble with limit = skillx2 is that it nearly cancel the limit, especially if you add on focus and specialisation.

If most mages can only summon force 6 sprits (max skill being 7 at a huge push) then having banishing at a similar level would be to bad. How ever I would consider making these limits malleable by edge or such just like force is in spell casting. So you you can normaly only banish a force 6 spirit but if there's a force 7+ one at your neck then you can spend edge to try. It still weakens mages/increases increases the need for specialisation and make edge more important for a build that normally only uses to over cast like mad something you have basicly written out with your new rules. Also consider extra dice to drain as options not just increasing force.
Also how will the specialisations work? Will you get one pick per point of magic a bit like adept powers? are you set in stone from theyday your make your PC are they meatamagics or an added perk in initiation?

Specialisation will just be the existing +2 specialisation from skills. I try to adjust the less rules possible, simple tweak not full rules creation. To be noted than the Totem bonus to casting could also raise the spell Force/summon.

So a Combat mage with a +2 Spellcasting specialisation on Combat, skill at 5 and a force 2 combat spell focus still cast up to Force 9 without Edge. But he wont be able to cast over Force 5 in other schools without focus, spirit help, edge or ritual magic.

But I like the idea to adding Edge to a roll to up the limit, sound very logical and thematic.

Adding a bonus depending on the tradition sound logical too. I guess Thaumaturgic tradition by example would result in large bonus when trying to banish Spirits of other tradition.

Also I didn't limit counterspell... but it is less of an opposed test than Banishing...

Funny you should mention this... In our game, the average Spirit IS Force 3-5 (Generally a 4)... and we have only ever summoned 1 (Yep, that's right, just 1) spirit over Force 6 in 5 years of play (And it was only Force 7)... IF your table sees spirit summoning of 6+ as common, then maybe you should start looking at why that might be...

Because some of my players like to do things for no other reason than "because they can"

More seriously, why does yours summon lower level spirits that what they can easily keep under control ? meta-gaming game balance , self imposed limits or fear of unwieldy drain ?

Drain is the big kicker in our games (As I said, 20 Drain is harsh)... Any spirit of Force 4 or Greater automatically spends Edge to resist all Summonings or Bindings... This tends to keep the "I am just going to summon a Force 8 Spirit to take care of the situation" solutions... Not that we are not allowed to do such things, but because the repercussions to such things could indeed kill the summoner...

Mage characters can purchase a Knowledge skill for the purposes of appeasing Spirits to keep them from spending edge, which they may roll, in tandem with some roleplaying and a bit of "Chiminage" to the spirits (payment to the spirits in accordance with the Tradition of the Mage in Question)... This has worked out very, very well, with the Appeasment skill granted bonus or penalties based upon the actions of the Character, and whether or not the character acted in accordance with his traditions.

This skill is in no way a prerequisite for the summoning of higher force spirits, but it does tend to keep high force summnings under control... And I will say that our table likes how summoning plays out, and it makes the craziness of the runaway summoner who will casually summon up a Force 8-9 Spirit "just because they can..."

And I will aslo admit that I generally impose limits on my characters because that is how they would roll... There is a LOT of utility that you can obtain out of a Force 3 Spirit after all...

So, basically, you just added a Specialised in Summoning skill to help summon higher level spirit

Not very different from what I suggested and definitely an adaptation of the RAW that you feel was needed

Actually no... The Knowledge Skill only potentially negates the Edge Expenditure (It has nothing to do with Specializations at all)... It in no way limits what you can attempt to summon, up to 2x your Magic Rating... what it does do is possibly mitigate the use of Edge for the purposes of that Summoning/Binding... You still need to perform some sort of ritual to appease/placate the spirits in order to roll the dice in the forst place... there are players who choose not to use the skill because they do not want to go through the motions of appeasing a spirit that they intend to abuse in the first place... to each his own. For those who have beliefs that the Spirits are something other than a magical contruct created out of nothing, the skill provide a roleplaying bonus (of a sort) to attempt to mitigate the Drain of Summoning/Binding (and potentially net you a few more Hits for Services)...

This is different from the rules that you proposed, in that no artificial limit is placed upon what can be summoned; And it does not even address the changes you are making towards actual spellcasting (Which we do not have any problems with)...

The biggest issue with Summoning that I have is that a lot of people believe that Spirits of Force 4-7 are just "Average" and that Force 8-10 should be what is common for Player Characters (Since it is so easy to do at character Generation), when the Fluff does not agree with this in the least... Any Spirit with Mental Attributes at 4+ will generally outshine almost every person on the planet in Social/Mental situations comparitively... At 6+, they are superior in almost every way that matters (Except for VERY Edge cases)... It is my stance that these beings are not willing to serve by default, and thus the Expenditure of Edge represents this struggle between the Spirit and the Summonner. It has worked out wonderfully for us at our table, and is even RAW (Despite what some will tell you)...

Anyways... Your rules changes look interesting for those who have issues like you are describing... let me know how they work out for you, as I am genuinely curious as to the outcome.