So for a drone/vehicle that is expected to have heavy use (including combat) for a rigger what software do you have to buy in order to get a signal/response/firewall rating like the Drone Rigger example in the core rulebook?

You have to buy Response and signal upgrades to 5.
You need Pilot 5, Clearsoft 5, Targetsoft 5. You want to upgrade the system's sensors.
Look at the Offense, or Defense softs.

Commlink Programs:

Command - You'll be spending as much time in Captain's Chair (AR) mode as you will Jumped-In (VR) mode. Command replaces your mental attributes for many tests in AR mode. Get it as high as possible.

Tactical Network Software - Get it. For both your personal commlink and to run in all your drones and vehicles. TacSofts mean a dice pool bonus to a ton of tests. You as a rigger will have enough 'friends' to always be running a Tactical Network.

Biofeedback Filter - helps if you get damaged while jumped in.

Vehicle Attributes:

Pilot - Anytime a drone is in Autonomous Mode, this is it's brain. It also sets the System Rating for the vehicle and is thus the limiter on what rating software you can run in the vehicle.

Response, Signal - Response replaces your meat attributes on many tests while in VR mode. Signal determines how far away you can control your drones from. Upgrade both of these attributes the same way you would on any other device. Note that you can only upgrade these attributes by a maximum of 2 unless you install the Modular Electronics hardware option found only in the SR4A Changes Document.

Firewall - Important if you get hacked, otherwise you probably will forget about it.

Sensors - Important. Replaces your Agility when in VR mode for shooting at things, and when you're looking at stuff through the vehicle's 'eyes'.

But upgrading vehicle Sensors is actually trickier than it sounds.

You upgrade Sensors by upgrading the individual parts. Most vehicles have 4-8 sensors in their sensor package. The overall Sensor Rating is the average of the individual component ratings.

The thing is, most sensor components have a max effective "rating" of 1. Which can make it difficult to raise the vehicle's Sensor Rating above 4, as all those rating 1 components drag the average down.

Handling, Acceleration, Speed - in theory, you want good amounts of these attributes. In practice, you'll not actually interact with them nearly as much as you'd think. Most games simply don't have that many vehicle chase scenes, which is 90% of the time when these attributes become important. Handling and Speed are difficult to boost as there's only a tiny handful of options that do so. Acceleration is a bit easier, as you can get Turbocharging.

Body, Armor - Both important for damage resistance. Unfortunately about the only Body upgrade is a sidecar that only works on motorcycles, otherwise if you want a larger Body rating get a bigger vehicle. Armor is limited by Body. The oddity will be, though, is on average most of your meat team-mates will have MUCH higher Body/Armor ratings than your drones. You regularly see street sammies running around with 24-30 dice pool for damage resistance, while that poor Steel Lynx is probably at best has a 12 or so. The only saving grace is that vehicle armor is effectively Hardened - but that only becomes a factor on the big vehicles that can afford to pile the armor on. Most drones are just screwed.

Which leads to a related point. Since drones, counter-intuitively, have WORSE defensive ratings than meat shadowrunners, they will get damaged. A lot. Better invest in Mechanics skills.

Autosofts:

Most of these are only used when the vehicle or drone is in autonomous mode. They'll need the autosofts in those situations because most vehicles have piss-poor base attributes for any tests on their own, so every dice pool boost helps.

Clearsight, Targeting

Must haves. These should be loaded at all times. Sensors as noted can be difficult to upgrade much, so a drone needs Clearsight to boost that dice pool otherwise it can't even see things. Targeting helps the vehicle hit stuff when it does see the target.

Adaptability, Maneuver, Chaser, Covert Ops, Defense, Encrypt, ECM, ECCM, Electronic Warfare, Profession, Trailblazer - Situational. You won't need these all of the time, but they come in very useful when you do need them. Adaptability helps if the drone needs to make decisions on it's own a lot. Defense is only used in melee combat ad Full Defense actions. Maneuver and Chaser usually only come up if you're in a chase or attempting tricky stunts. Most vehicles won't be able to make use of Covert Ops all that much since they tend to be kinda big - drones are the exception, especially if you get them Chameleon Coat and other masking hardware. Encrypt, ECM, ECCM, and Electronic Warfare often never come up in many games at all, because many GMs don't want to bother with the hassle, but if your GM likes hacking your drones they're your shield against it.

The others, well, you won't see too much use during games. Though, if you have a couple drones kept at home base with Profession (Auto Mechanic) loaded, they can fix and modify stuff for you while you're busy shadowrunning. Better get those drones high Pilot & Adaptability, as well as the Fuzzy Logic hardware upgrade, though.


-karma

Karma-ferno has done a really good job. Just based on the colors and format I can tell that he's put a lot of thought into it (I'm sorry I don't think I'll read it though).

Also, I made a thread (found here) about vehicles and drones, but not as specified as the question you have made here. You may still get ideas though.

EDIT: Speaking of which, I'll go ahead and post the updated costs also.

Restricted Gear (Response Rating 6, Avail 16) for your Comm Link, which allows you to take nice Rating 6 software.

For the Rigger also interested in having high initiative
Restricted Gear (Response Enhancer Rating 5, Avail 20) which adds +5 to your matrix initiative.

Response is used in a lot of Jumped-In Rigger Tests

Command software for Remote-Controlled Tests.

A great summary by KI, just one thing:


If a character improves the ratings of all of the individual components in a sensor package, the overall Sensor rating of the vehicle should also be improved accordingly. For the purpose
of improvement, sensors that do not have a rating are considered to be automatically upgraded, when all the remaining sensors in a package are improved to a higher rating.
(Arsenal Errata)

So if you have a R3 camera, a R3 microphone and a range finder, upgrading the cam and microphone to 6 will bring the sensor rating to 6

Just don't put in any sensors that only go to rating 3. Or they magically make your sensors worse

Alas, I have a weakness for ultrawideband radar (1-4) due to it's incredible abilities and low capacity.

"can penetrate rating x 5 [20!] points of cumulative barrier Structure ratings (see p. 157, SR4), and can be used to detect cyberware and weapons in the same manner as millimeterwave radar (see p. 255, SR4)" Mentally, an improved sensor array and ultrawideband radar 4 have become mandatory for my micro, mini, and medium drones.

--------

Dronomancer note: The Skinlink echo (Unwired, pg 147) is amazing since it's usually not cost effective to defend a drone. It's likely the Pilot(System) hasn't been upgraded and the drone isn't running Analyze since it's often behind (and possibly slaved to) the main defense of a commlink or building nexus. This means Dronomancers can start at the gooey sweet inside and work their way out to the hard outer shell, even if the drone/device is slaved.

If they're your drones, remember, physical access can bypass slaving. (Unwired, pg 59).

Okay, I missed that errata.

This means my character's drones suddenly got better.

Thanks!



-karma

I'm enamored of the Bust-a-Move, because it's so cheap. We don't use Unwired rules for software degradation, so removing copy protection from software is okay. So instead of doing any physical upgrades to the BaM, I buy the best software that they can normally run (Device 3 I believe), and re-use the software if the drone gets blown up.

Pilot
Maneuver
Clearsight
Covert Ops
Adaptability (for behind-the-lines jobs or in case of jamming)
Technical Skill [Hardware, Lockpicking] (Arsenal mentions they're used to rob stores)

Sure, the cute lil' bugger only had 4 dice for most tests if I'm not jumped in, but it only costs 350ny, so it's a real alternative to spirit scouting. And it looks fairly innocent, especially if it's lying still. Yet it should be able to carry around a grenade; we haven't decided if it can wield holdouts. Perhaps a poisoned needle in it's paw?

I always liked the idea of the BaM wielding hold-outs like assault rifles and Light Pistols as shoot-from-the-hip assault cannons.

Also, as another work-around for the Software Degredation, you could just own a legal disk of the programs (datachip) and load them onto whichever drone you need. Just hit "Register Online Later" when prompted.

Hmmm. B-A-M with Mechanic/Armorer skillsofts. Is that legal? In Missions the 4:1 buy means each drone is worth another die in teamwork tests. Pirated skillsofts, a shop, and an drone army of oompa loompas....

Technically 2 dice with Pilot upgrade 4 or better.

As I noted, Drones with Pilot 5, Adaptability 4, Fuzzy Logic, and a suite of mechanical Autosofts should be able to do most standard Shop operations all by themselves with minor supervision.

My pixie rigger kinda HAS to rely on drone help for fixing her vehicles, just picking up a wrench is a challenge for her.



-karma

Just want to make sure I have this straight.
Pilot5 skillsoft4 means each bam add 9(2) + 8(2) 7to4(1 each) dice to your extended test. So 4 bams would add 8 hits (total) over 6 intervals.

I get confused with software/pirateware. Does the pilot,skillsoft,etc have to be purchased for each drone or just once?

Once per drone, unless you crack the copy protection. The physical abilities of a Bust-A-Move drone are open to debate, though. It depends what 'robbery sprees' means, I guess.

Just for curiosity, where does the book actually say drones can help in Teamwork tests?

It doesn't.

It says "characters". So it's up to your GM to say if a drone counts. But given that some high end drones are almost smarter than the party Street Sam, it's not an unreasonable allowance, especially given it's only a few extra dice.




-karma

That was my reading. I'm not saying your Fuzzy Logic/Adaptable/etc. method wouldn't work, and at least you're making the effort on that front.

BaM are (at best) Device Rating 3. The whole point is that it's cheaper to buy more and replace them than to upgrade them. Hence the importance of getting around copy protection; I want to use quantity, not quality.

My question had more to do with what KarmaInferno does in missions. If I left the BAMs with a low response, low pilot, low skillsoft then each one would only add one die to one or two intervals on an extended test. To get 8 hits from them assisting me during missions downtime would take 12 BAMs at 3/3 (9 hits), 16 BAMs at 3/2 (8 hits) or 32 BAMs at 2/2. Personally, I just can't deal with the thought of 12 Bust-a-Moves helping me mount a sound suppressor in a gun, but I feel I ought to try understanding the rules behind it.

Well, here's the thing. I don't use Bust-a-Moves on that Missions character. I use Steel Lynxes and Ford LEBD drones. And one, er, very special MCT Housekeeper.

All outfitted with mechanical arms and top of the line software.

So basically I went the opposite route, quality over quantity. Each drone nets me 2-3 extra dice per drone for teamwork tests, so combined with the character's dice gives me more than enough dice for most mechanical downtime tests for repairs and upgrades.

But ultimately it's fluff. Downtime does not tend to be tracked all that rigorously in Missions, so the fact that I spent all this money and effort to do so is a lot more than most folks do. I do so because I derive some weird enjoyment at seeing all my numbers straight and legal all in a row.

I know I probably could get away with just fudging stuff, and really nobody would notice or probably care, but that wouldn't be me.



-karma

uses spreadsheets for characters

For engineering I'd pick Housekeepers too. They're already equipped with opposable thumbs and all, and while they're not fast or vicious, they have great lifting capacity. Good for solid careful work.

Does anyone else just get C3PO vibes from the housekeepers? I'm thinking about getting a Hermes Sandal (IIRC) as an R2D2 as well. As a remote hacker, I definitely need a droid to project a holographic image of me so I can talk to people

One minor correction regarding the sensor package rating. The sensor package rating is based off of the rating of those items. Items with no ratings are not counted (I don't recalll anything being limited to just rating 1). Silly thing is a Drone with a rating 6 camera is more effective than one with a rating 6 camera and rating 2 radar sensor (A rating 4 sensor suite compared to a rating 6).

As an option though you can base the sensor rating in a drone is based off the average of the applicable sensors.

The solution is to not use Sensor Rating; instead, use the specific applicable sensor. Camera 6 is 6 for the visual perception test, Microphone 5 is 5 for that hearing test, Radar 2 is 2 when Radar is being used, etc.

Sensor Rating is the same as Device Rating: a shorthand average for not-fleshed-out devices (vehicles). Once you alter them, use the *real* ratings.

What sensors would your gunnery test use?

Depends, on what sensors you have and which you're using.

Probably visual, although you can combine them (as the book suggests). Consider which Visibility penalties you're using; if you're ignoring darkness with Radar, then your camera doesn't count.

If you're using Signature, that usually (logically) means thermal and/or radar, but possibly other things; the Signature rules are very vague.

My point is that you shouldn't sweat having a Camera 6 and an Olfactory Sensor 2 for your (good example) Gunnery Test.

Maybe I'm targetting by smell
But I agree, it would be better if we used the appropriate sensor, instead of using a big sensor rating.

Also, I think that all sensors should have a rating of 1-6.. make life easier.

You can try targeting by smell, but there are special rules for that; it wouldn't be a normal sensor test.

Sorry about the tangential question here, but I saw a reference here (and in other threads) to Autosofts at a rating higher than 4. When I look in the core book (anniversary at least) and Arsenal I see each with the "(Rating 1-4)" listing next to them. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong - I'm just trying to find out if there is a RAW way to advance these beyond Rating 4?

[EDIT]: Just noticed there was another active thread discussing this. Back to the regular programmed discussion!

Possibly you can code your own above 4, and that's just the max available on the market. I'll check the book.

… I can't find anything that specifically says you can't, so I guess that means GM-approval. The ruling that autosoft tech simply hasn't advanced beyond rating 4 is as valid as the ruling that you can make your own, so whatever works for your table.

I am pretty sure that, like skillsofts, they are limited to prevent someone/something to be better at some actions than a person who learned and perfected that skill naturally in years of experience. And i like that. (The only thing which can be better than a specialist metahuman, OF COURSE, is a spirit).

They are limited, and you should love it. If your drones need to be better you will need to jump in and do it yourself, as a rigger/technomancer.

Also it makes sense: To have a rigid set of instructions and lifeless data to be better than someone who actively tailored the skill to his mind, body and has an extensive "data-library" for all eventualities AND who can improvise, it would need to be insanely complicated. Way beyond the techniques used in 2072, i think.

That's true: autosofts *are* skillsofts for Pilots. Does it explicitly say that skillsofts can't exist at rating 6? I wasn't aware. I know it says that they're hard to program and "limited in rating", and aren't available to *buy* higher than 4 (5 for non-actives), but does that mean they can't be written higher?

Hm.. good point. I read through the stuff (on high speed though.. so i might have missed something), but not really: Autosofts can be programmed (skillsofts not, though... i guess they have to be recorded and cleaned up, which limits them by default - and only corps have enough staff/tech to do it). And they can benefit from optimization and have no entry on limited ratings.

So yeah, we can apparently have a rating 12 targeting autosoft (+6 levels optimization) running on a modified Steel Lynx for 18 dice (12 skill + 6 Pilot) and can raise that with active targetting... also with a 12 clearsight software)

Hm... i don't like it *g*

Of course, you'll spend months doing that. And the corp military will probably kill you and take it, or maybe just enslave you.

Good point, though: I forgot there apparently aren't rules for programming skillsofts.

I don't allow skillsofts and autosofts above 4. Autosofts are basically skillsofts for drones, so the same reasons apply as for skillsofts;

A skillsoft is based on analyzing the common denominator of the skill as displayed by a range of people. Just a single person isn't enough to build a skillsoft off; you need to separate idiosyncrasies from actual useful method.

At the higher-ratings of skills, the differences between practitioners tend to grow and finding a common denominator becomes next to impossible; rating 4 would be extremely hard to create as is.

[Of course this a fluff rationalization; I just don't want 'soft skills to have the kind of long-term potential that karma-bought skills have.]