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KemeticCultus
Shadowrun Simplified Ruleset

I'm interested in developing an alternative Shadowrun rule system based on 2nd edition with some elements from 4th edition.


Objectives

  • Make target numbers the core of the system as in 2nd edition.
  • Employ the concept that attributes are used in conjunction with dice from skills as in 4th edition.
  • Decrease and nullify the need to divide or multiply wherever possible so that addition and subtraction are the core of the system. This will significantly speed up gameplay on the part of the game master. Simplistic math means a smoother system.
  • Completely overhaul hacking so that only a few numbers and dice rolls are needed while retaining the edge-of-your-seat tension of hacking.
  • Simplify vehicle combat so that it is a natural extension of the base rules of combat. Vehicle combat should be fast and furious, not number crunching boredom.
  • Ensure that melee combat is smooth and colorful.
  • Distill NPCs into a small amount of numbers so that they can be created on the fly. NPCs are often disposable bullet sponges so the amount of numbers needed to bring them to life should be minimal.
  • Simplify spell casting so that it is no more complicated than firing a weapon.
  • Decrease the need for tables upon tables upon tables.
  • Simplify character creation to something akin to 2nd edition.


If you are a game master frustrated with the Shadowrun system or a player who would like to see a system that is more conducive to high speed action in the world of Shadowrun, contact me if you'd like to contribute to this.

I have a TeamSpeak 3 server so we can sit around and discuss this regardless of where you are in the world.

Ultimately, my vision is to create an alternative system that will allow game masters to create runs on the fly rather than having to spend days plugging in all the right numbers. I want high speed Hollywood action that reflects the professionalism of runners being able to get in and get out.


Shadowrun Pen & Paper Online

Beyond these objectives, there is a 4th edition ruleset being developed for the Fantasy Grounds II virtual tabletop software. However, if our alternative ruleset is successful, then it's a no-brainer that a Fantasy Grounds II ruleset would be created for it. That means that Shadowrun pen and paper can be played online.

My vision for that is to build a massive community of players and game masters who use the Fantasy Grounds II software. With a simplified system, Shadowrun would be as accessible as any MMORPG, in which you can login to the TeamSpeak 3 server and jump right into a game. We're already creating and compiling the artwork toward this end (PC & NPC tokens, critter artwork, maps, etc.). With tons of maps, a simplified ruleset and everything at the game master's fingertips, any imaginative game master can create a campaign out of thin air.

Here is a screen shot of the Shadowrun 4e version 2 Beta ruleset for Fantasy Grounds II.
Synner667
You're better off starting from scratch, with a simple core rule [attribute+skill dicepool, for instance] and then build from there - with no reference to SR v2 or SR v3 or SR v4 rules at all...
...Look forward, not drag the past around with you.
Fatum
QUOTE (KemeticCultus @ Sep 17 2010, 12:25 AM) *
  • Decrease and nullify the need to divide or multiply wherever possible so that addition and subtraction are the core of the system. This will significantly speed up gameplay on the part of the game master. Simplistic math means a smoother system.

Okay, this one is a joke, I presume.
QUOTE
  • Completely overhaul hacking so that only a few numbers and dice rolls are needed while retaining the edge-of-your-seat tension of hacking.
  • Ensure that melee combat is smooth and colorful.
  • Simplify spell casting so that it is no more complicated than firing a weapon.
  • Decrease the need for tables upon tables upon tables.

Uh, already there in the fourth edition?
Having a couple of tables per each of the three spaces the action is happening in is hardly "tables upon tables".
QUOTE
  • Distill NPCs into a small amount of numbers so that they can be created on the fly. NPCs are often disposable bullet sponges so the amount of numbers needed to bring them to life should be minimal.

Uh. Pssst: any NPC has half a dozen relevant skills and attributes anyway. What prevents you from winging them on the fly based on his proficiency level?
sabs
When I make NPC's I actually just cheat.

punk = DP of 6
expert = dp of 8
Vet = dp 10-12
Top Notch = DP 17 for tag skill, dp 10-12 for everything else.

Then I modify based on race.
NPC's don't need a giant character sheet considering their life expectancy is lower than a Lt's during the Vietnam war.
Doc Chase
Lieutenant Dan survived!
Fatum
QUOTE (sabs @ Sep 17 2010, 12:51 AM) *
NPC's don't need a giant character sheet considering their life expectancy is lower than a Lt's during the Vietnam war.


Well, having a nice set of pre-made stubs helps a lot when the mage starts scanning them for implants or the hacker tries his wits on them; too bad the ones in the books are not in any way adequate to the typical runner power level.
KemeticCultus
::sigh:: I figured I'd get a bunch of pompous criticism and useless commentary instead of people that actually want to help. If you don't share my frustrations, then how about not replying?


QUOTE
Okay, this one is a joke, I presume.


No, it isn't a joke. It's a no-brainer. It's called decreasing the amount of steps taken to get the result. A rule which says "add these together and then divide this and then subtract the result from this and then multiply the final result to the NPC's whatever and make sure to round up" is garbage.




Fatum
QUOTE (KemeticCultus @ Sep 17 2010, 01:12 AM) *
No, it isn't a joke. It's a no-brainer. It's called decreasing the amount of steps taken to get the result. A rule which says "add these together and then divide this and then subtract the result from this and then multiply the final result to the NPC's whatever and make sure to round up" is garbage.


*facepalm*
Because multiplying or dividing something mentally is so much more complex than addition or subtraction for an adult, right? Like, no way to cope with it. At all. No sir.
Oh, and SR4E rules are full of "add these together and then divide this and then subtract the result from this and then multiply the final result to the NPC's whatever and make sure to round up", surely enough. You need to take Advanced Calculus to understand the equations in the rulebook to begin with.
Platinum
QUOTE (KemeticCultus @ Sep 16 2010, 03:25 PM) *
Shadowrun Simplified Ruleset
I'm interested in developing an alternative Shadowrun rule system based on 2nd edition with some elements from 4th edition
Objectives

  • Completely overhaul hacking so that only a few numbers and dice rolls are needed while retaining the edge-of-your-seat tension of hacking.
  • Simplify vehicle combat so that it is a natural extension of the base rules of combat. Vehicle combat should be fast and furious, not number crunching boredom.
  • Ensure that melee combat is smooth and colorful.
  • Distill NPCs into a small amount of numbers so that they can be created on the fly. NPCs are often disposable bullet sponges so the amount of numbers needed to bring them to life should be minimal.
  • Simplify spell casting so that it is no more complicated than firing a weapon.


I am being selective here:
I am a 2nd edition ludite, I have been working on a set of quick hack rules. It's mostly like decking naked, meant to be simple and flashy. It exchanged some realism for simplification.

Vehicle rules: I love the idea of simplified vehicle combat, but I don't know of any systems that do it well. I have no experience with vehicular combat other than a little battletech.

I find that second edition combat is quick / smooth / theatric. I never have a problem remembering numbers that adjust TN's.

NPC's -- I have a character generator that quickly pumps out random NPC's. Usually I assign them a threat rating which is a pool on top of everything, based on the difficulty I think the NPC will present.

How is casting not simple in 2nd or 3rd? They have different flavours, yet both resolve quickly.

If you use googletalk or skype I am in. I don't want to install yet another voip software.
KemeticCultus
QUOTE
Because multiplying or dividing something mentally is so much more complex than addition or subtraction for an adult, right? Like, no way to cope with it. At all. No sir.
Oh, and SR4E rules are full of "add these together and then divide this and then subtract the result from this and then multiply the final result to the NPC's whatever and make sure to round up", surely enough. You need to take Advanced Calculus to understand the equations in the rulebook to begin with.


I don't see how this is difficult to understand. The idea is to simplify the rules and thereby make them much quicker, speeding up the action. Anyone who has an education beyond the second grade should be able to divide or multiply, but whether they can or not isn't the argument. A rule which requires division will typically also require rounding up and probably had something to do with adding or subtracting the final result to another figure. That means there are three steps to the calculation before any dice can be rolled. A rule which requires only subtraction or addition means that there is only one step before dice are rolled. Rolling dice is what moves the action; the quicker the dice hit the table the faster the scene moves and the sooner the next person can take their turn.
tete
Why not just use a system you like and call it Shadowrun?
KemeticCultus
QUOTE
If you use googletalk or skype I am in. I don't want to install yet another voip software.


My Skype username is ThoughtContagion.

KemeticCultus


QUOTE
Why not just use a system you like and call it Shadowrun?


I like a lot of elements of 2e and many of its concepts are not only sensible but have a lot of nostalgia. I didn't think much of 2e was broken so I see no reason to move to 3e or 4e. However, there are certainly some elements of 4e that are worth consideration.
tete
fair enough. my suggestions are short then

1. limit the matrix system map to SAN, DS, I/OP, SM, period no multiples, give the CPU functions to the DS. Its amazing how much it speeds up with only 4 nodes. SM will control all the cameras etc.
2. Have all initiatives go in the same time. IE, whatever your score is thats when you go so you may have Astral, Matrix, Astral, Meat, Matrix, etc.
3. Don't use VR2.0 or Rigger 2, just stay with the 2e base and build what you want from there.
Stahlseele
One Size Fits All.
One Capacity for EVERYTHING.
Don't want stuff to go where it's not supposed to?
Give Vehicles 50 capacity and make Vehicle stuff take up so much capacity that it simply won't FIT into anything else . .
But at the same time, electronics and the such take up only miniscule ammounts of capacity so they can be built in . .
Same applies for cyber eyes, ears, mouths, noses, limbs, armor, goggles, glasses, contact lenses, ear plugs and weapons . .
KemeticCultus
QUOTE (tete @ Sep 16 2010, 03:32 PM) *
fair enough. my suggestions are short then

1. limit the matrix system map to SAN, DS, I/OP, SM, period no multiples, give the CPU functions to the DS. Its amazing how much it speeds up with only 4 nodes. SM will control all the cameras etc.
2. Have all initiatives go in the same time. IE, whatever your score is thats when you go so you may have Astral, Matrix, Astral, Meat, Matrix, etc.
3. Don't use VR2.0 or Rigger 2, just stay with the 2e base and build what you want from there.



Thank you for the suggestion. You might find this interesting: Shadowrun 4 Simplified Hacking
Brainpiercing7.62mm
Some quick thoughts for something akin to Micro-Shadowrun:

Reduce number of attributes back to six, as in SR3. I guess you could even go further: Speed, Strength, Mind, Charisma can really make do. Use a VERY limited number of skills: Physical, Social, Knowledge, Ranged Weapons, Melee weapons, Spellcasting, Stealth, Perception. Make more detailed skill rolls by adding Attribute and Skills, for instance, Physical + Str for climbing, Phys + Speed for acrobatics.

Use TN 4 rather than 5, to make things more predictable. However, changing TNs like in SR3 (I don't know SR2) doesn't make things simpler. It makes probabilities a bit weird.

Simplify stacking rules for augmentations. Either stuff ALWAYS stacks, or NEVER. Not this crap with a ton of exceptions.

Find a suitable mechanic and use it for everything: Same stats for vehicles as for characters. Speed as in SR3. Ram attack is equal to collisions is equal to melee combat. Chasing works the same for characters as for critters as for vehicles. Etc.

All that being said: I've found a very fun combat oriented tactical game can be made from SR3 minus magic/hacking/any other complicated stuff.
tete
QUOTE (KemeticCultus @ Sep 16 2010, 11:57 PM) *
Thank you for the suggestion. You might find this interesting: Shadowrun 4 Simplified Hacking


interesting, thanks for the link

QUOTE (Brainpiercing7.62mm @ Sep 17 2010, 12:02 AM) *
Use TN 4 rather than 5, to make things more predictable. However, changing TNs like in SR3 (I don't know SR2) doesn't make things simpler. It makes probabilities a bit weird.


After playing Ubiquity I really hope they do this in 5e and remove the significants of 1s and 6s so we can get some cool custom 50/50 dice.
nemafow
I like the Simplified Hacking rules link you provided, a little too simple for my liking, but a great basis to include in my games in the future (with a little bit of a tweak), thank you
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