So with magic, I have to see an object to target it.

With a ward, I believe it is considered dual, the physical being the wall, and the astral being, well the ward.

So my question comes down to this. Can I target the wall, and though not hurting that barrier(Because it like has a rating of 32), but still hurt the astral barrier through normal rules?

All that depends on what you are using to do the damage with. What kind of spell, or power, or what?

What would happen if I casted manabolt

What about powerbolt.

Remember I am not astrally perceiving, so I'm not actually looking at the astral form. Just the physical wall, though I know that the ward exists.

Wouldn't be able to cast manabolt, I don't think.

~J

You mean Manabolt wouldn't work, because you can't see something with an aura(or an astral presence)

But would powerbolt/ball effect the astral barrier. To me I just want to see if I can blow away a barrier without having to worry about the spirits protecting attacking just myself. Not the other people around it. Basicly as the mage if I astral perceive, I'm dual but the other characters aren't. This sucks because I have to protect myself. But with the other characters it will be at least manageable.

Powerbolt/ball. Only works on the physcal body of the target. Thus using that you'd be up against the massive barrier rating of the wall. Mana bolt won't work either as the only way to overcome an astral barrier (be it circle, ward, or spell) is through astral combat.

That's what I thought to I was just wandering if anyone saw it differently, and had something that would back it up.

Isn't shattersheild a combat spell that damages astral barriers? I don't have my books with me, but IIRC it's effectively just a specialised deadly-damage mannabolt, thus mannabolt could probably destroy the ward.

That would probably require astral perception though unless you can cast on the physical component... I'm not sure about that though. Are they considered dual natured? If they are then I think you could.

I really don't think that a ward and the physical limits that define it have any relation other than symbolic and spatial, and thus it wouldn't count as one dual-natured object but instead two "single-natured" objects.

~J

No, the components that create the border for the Ward are not dual natured. You can't ManaBolt a wall.

Yes, Powerbolt like spells which destroy objects could destroy a ward if you "break" the circle (or whatever design it's in). Of course, actually destroying a wall (vs putting a hole in it), according to the Barrier Rating rules (page 124), requires that the Force of the spell is greater than the wall, otherwise you won't even make a hole, and even if the Force is greater than the wall, you need the Force of the spell to be equal to the Barrier Rating * (BarrierRating/2 + 1). So, a Barrier rating of 6 would require a PowerBolt like spell of Force 24. Force 24 PowerBolt will remove a wall entirely if it's a Barrier Rating of 6. Anything else just puts a hole into it.

Needless to say, spells aren't made for Wall Demolishing anymore (Damn I miss my Urban Renewal spell...)

Sphynx

Note that casting through a ward is subject to a target number penalty equal to the force of the ward, even when casting a physical spell and not using astral perception.

So I'd say that casting at the physical portion of the ward impinges on the barrier enough to incur this penalty.