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herceg
Hi everyone!

Theres a piece of rule in Magic in the Shadows that says a mage can perform a new summoning for the same elemental to gain more services from that specific elemental.

My question is: does it cost elemental conjuring materials or not? Thoughts?
Dahrken
IMHO yes and no - I have not the book at and tho check the precise wording of the rule.

If you summon again a "normal", until dawn/dusk spirit to coax a few extra services (with that same time limit) then no material is used as they are not required for the initial summon.

If you summon a bound spirit to extend the services you can get from it, then yes, you use a new batch of summoning materials.
nezumi
Yes. Conjuring an elemental always requires materials. However, you may decide you specifically like Bob, the Water Elemental, rather than getting just a random elemental.

Arguably, if Bob does not wish to appear, the conjuring may fail, but this is just color.
herceg
Thanks for the replies, guys. And Darkhen: it's 3rd edition, so yes, mages "bind" elementals...

Now for the rule: what's the point of this rule? (Beside what you mention, "liking Bob the waterelemental") I mean, why not just summon another? I mean yeah, I summon my elementals not as "#3, the water elemental" but as "Viviane, the Lady of the Lake", but still... Guess I always look for reasons/logic, but here I see none. Same price, same time, same requirements... I don't get it. Rules usually have reason in them, they're not just "fluff things"

EDIT: Ah, just reread your reply nezumi, so I wish to add: the elemental in question is still in your service, you just do the summoning again to gain additional services (so it's not "re-summoning", just kinda "re-negotiating", so the elemental in question has not the option of "not-attending")
mielikki
As to the binding materials, do the rules anywhere explicitly say that the materials get used up as opposed to use?

p. 188 of SR4A reads:
Binding requires a ritual of a number of hours equal to the force of the spirit. The ritual materials, available from a talismonger, cost 500 times the Force of the spirit. Magical lodges are not required for binding, but they are often used out of habit.

Our GM and I had a discussion on that topic lately. We both interpret it as "materials get used up", but me being a RL lawyer and him being a munchkin, we both had second thoughts about it smile.gif
Summerstorm
Well, Mielikki... this is SR3 thread. But yeah they get used up either way and in all editions *g*.
Dahrken
Sorry, I missed the SR3 bit. But I think that a new set of whatever is required for the initial summoning/binding is required for the "renegotiating" summon.

I don't remember the SR3 rules, when summoning/binding a spirit in SR3 could you add extra features to the elemental like SR4 allows with a good summoning test ? This would be a motivation to extend the services of an already bound elemental rather than starting fresh.
herceg
No, there is no "benefit", except you get to keep the services that the elemental has. Come to think of it, there is one odd situation when this could be beneficial: you have your maximum number of elementals, and the one/those you wish to use has/have _some_ remaining services, but you wish them to have more (because you will need at least 3 during the run and it has only 1 or 2)... hmhm... might worth it in this case...
nezumi
I've had characters get elementals with special abilities, who have certain experiences the PCs need to ask questions about, who form personal relationships with the PCs, etc. Those would all be grounds for calling up the one you've previously held.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (herceg @ Sep 29 2010, 11:20 AM) *
Come to think of it, there is one odd situation when this could be beneficial: you have your maximum number of elementals, and the one/those you wish to use has/have _some_ remaining services, but you wish them to have more (because you will need at least 3 during the run and it has only 1 or 2)... hmhm... might worth it in this case...

Bingo, that's the case this addresses.

~J
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